Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

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Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby lockdown » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:05 pm

Is Jake Hagler the best class B player since Hunter Berg?
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby EHS1998 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:50 pm

Not certain if this is a serious topic but at this point, wouldnt Jeff Boshee be considered the best player since 1995, based on the recent Boschee vs Hagler debate? Then Hanstad, then maybe Hagler?
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby winner-within » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:59 pm

EHS1998 wrote:Not certain if this is a serious topic but at this point, wouldnt Jeff Boshee be considered the best player since 1995, based on the recent Boschee vs Hagler debate? Then Hanstad, then maybe Hagler?


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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby kentuckyblue » Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:13 pm

I think that Craig Nelson has to be in the discussion as well
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby dyhardballa09 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:18 pm

It is hard to compare Hunter Berg's game to Hagler. I'm sure 30-50% of posters on here don't know about the Grenora Guru. Game was played a different way back then. Fouls were called differently, style of play was different. This is also a reason it is hard to compare Steve Blehm, Jimmy Kleinsasser, Phil Jackson, Les Lepson (stud at Iowa), Doug Swenson, etc. to current players. Yeah, Berg was awesome, but could he score with the physicality that today's game has that they didn't then.

Based on players since 1990 I would say Hagler is definetly a possible top 3 choice, I want to see him at college level first before comparing him to other players who did well at D1 level.
1) Jeff Boschee- Valley City-Outstanding college career at Kansas
2) Austin Dufault- Killdeer- 4 yr. starter at Colorado, finishing Sr. year
3) Hunter Berg-Grenora- shot 73% from the field as a senior!! That is crazy good. Averaged 13.1 pts/game @ UND
4) Doug Swenson- Halliday-Averaged 11-12 pts/game at Creighton
5) Joe Hanstad- Dickinson- Great HS player, anxious to see him at D1 level
6) Hagler.....time will tell

Hanstad and Hagler have chance to be 1 and 2 as time goes on...
I know Hagler is great player, but I would hate to see him fizzle out at a D1 level (similiar to Peyton Tivis at SDSU)
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby ndlionsfan » Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:26 pm

dyhardballa09 wrote:It is hard to compare Hunter Berg's game to Hagler. I'm sure 30-50% of posters on here don't know about the Grenora Guru. Game was played a different way back then. Fouls were called differently, style of play was different. This is also a reason it is hard to compare Steve Blehm, Jimmy Kleinsasser, Phil Jackson, Les Lepson (stud at Iowa), Doug Swenson, etc. to current players. Yeah, Berg was awesome, but could he score with the physicality that today's game has that they didn't then.



In my opinion 1985-1995 was when Class B was the greatest in this state. Just like the 80s was the greatest for the NBA. And while its hard to compare then to now, I think players back then would excel even more in today's game. It's called different now and the style of play may be different, but I don't think its' any more physical today than back then. Also, back then the talent level was higher across the board. There may be more exceptional players this day and age due to specialization, accel training, more camps, etc but they are also playing against a weaker 5 on average most of the time. I really think if you took the 95 Grenora team and put them in todays game, Hunter Berg would be having the same if not better season than Hagler is having right now. I also think its the same in reverse, put the 2012 Northstar team back in 1995 and Hagler would be having the same season he is having right now because he is just that good. But you put 2012 Northstar vs 1995 Carrington in the region title game and Northstar gets manhandled.
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby kentuckyblue » Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:46 pm

ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby EHS1998 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:48 pm

winner-within wrote:
EHS1998 wrote:Not certain if this is a serious topic but at this point, wouldnt Jeff Boshee be considered the best player since 1995, based on the recent Boschee vs Hagler debate? Then Hanstad, then maybe Hagler?


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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby packers21 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:53 pm

kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?


Cando's 2001 team didnt win state.
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby kentuckyblue » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:01 pm

packers21 wrote:
kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?


Cando's 2001 team didnt win state.



Your right sorry they lost to North Border Im just thinking of teams from region 4 that have been successful lately
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby packers21 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:07 pm

The only team I think they could beat would be the NRS teams. I think they would all be good games though, not any blow-outs. Haglar is so good.
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby ndlionsfan » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:07 pm

kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?


That's tough. I think this year's Northstar would be right there with the NRS teams and have some great games. NRS was so tough 1-5, but NS has the best 2 guards on the same team we've seen in a long time. I think both those teams would match up well. Kind of the same with the Cando and NB teams in 2001. I think NS has the better guard combo, but don't know how they would stop Lindahl and Bonamie inside. Last year Northstar vs 2001 Cando would be a great game to watch! As for the Leeds teams, I think 2012 Northstar beats 97 and 98 Leeds, but loses to 91, 92, 93, and 99 Leeds. The early 90s Leeds teams just had too many players that were more physical, plus all had good inside big men that I wouldn't see Northstar matching up well with. 2012 Northstar vs 99 Leeds again would have been a great game to watch! Moser vs Hagler would a great matchup.

The thing that's great about the Northstar teams of the last few years (and Hagler especially) is that they are just so fundamentally sound and don't make mistakes. That makes them so tough to beat because they don't beat themselves. Haven't seen that since the MPCG teams in 02 and 03 and haven't seen that in a player since Craig Nelson.

For class B point guards, in my opinion, I would go with 1. Berg, 2. Hagler, 3. Nelson
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby winner-within » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:20 pm

packers21 wrote:
kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?


Cando's 2001 team didnt win state.


And NS's current 12' team doesn't beat the 01 cando team or the NB team that beat Cando....not a chance! ....like I've said before the team with the best player has a serious chance of winning it all, but the team that plays the best 5 across the board?? its theirs to lose.
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby lockdown » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:44 am

kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?

How would that Carrington team slow down Jake Hagler though?
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:13 am

lockdown wrote:
kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?

How would that Carrington team slow down Jake Hagler though?


How would Northstar stop Jimmy Kleinsasser?
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby winner-within » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:53 am

ndlionsfan wrote:
lockdown wrote:
kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?

How would that Carrington team slow down Jake Hagler though?


How would Northstar stop Jimmy Kleinsasser?


They wouldn't....you take a 1982/83 Munich team, 1983/84 Lankin/Adams, 1991/92 Munich, Craig/Kyle Nelson teams, 2010/11 Cavalier.....all these teams would rise holy havoc on any team in the State right now
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:07 am

ndlionsfan wrote:
lockdown wrote:
kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?

How would that Carrington team slow down Jake Hagler though?


How would Northstar stop Jimmy Kleinsasser?


Simple answer, you can't.

I will give you a very biased opinion why I do think the NS teams of recent years could play with any of the teams mentioned. Will use the 2010 NS team because I had an "oar in the water" you might say.

That team played a lot of full court man-man pressure where their guards were extremely good at jump/trap and jump/switch. Their secondary defenders were extremely good at jumping the long passing lanes. They would have at least 3 - 4, 10 point runs in every game. They were deep and they were offensively potent. Never seemed to miss a beat during sub rotation. They excelled at steals and fast break layups, but also had 5 guys on the court that were extremely good shooters. They rebounded and passed well as a team.
With their pressure, they were also susceptible to giving up some points. When they played teams only once during the year, the opposing team just didn't realize how quick they could put up points until it was too late. When they played teams more then once, if that team was disciplined and could "weather the storm" they gave themselves a shot. Teams with a dominant post player will always be better equipped because they have a better chance at controlling the boards and therefore the tempo of the game. JMHO
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby cubsfan » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:15 am

ndlionsfan wrote:
lockdown wrote:
kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?

How would that Carrington team slow down Jake Hagler though?


How would Northstar stop Jimmy Kleinsasser?

I still remember that game in 1995 when Carrington beat MPCG in the semi-final game at the state tournament. It seemed like he beat them by himself against what was considered their most talented team during their state tournament runs.
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:17 am

winner-within wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:
lockdown wrote:
kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?

How would that Carrington team slow down Jake Hagler though?


How would Northstar stop Jimmy Kleinsasser?


They wouldn't....you take a 1982/83 Munich team, 1983/84 Lankin/Adams, 1991/92 Munich, Craig/Kyle Nelson teams, 2010/11 Cavalier.....all these teams would rise holy havoc on any team in the State right now


Have a really tough time believing the Cavalier teams of the last two years would be that much better than teams of this season. The other teams you listed, yes, but Cavalier no.
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:19 am

cubsfan wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:
lockdown wrote:
kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?

How would that Carrington team slow down Jake Hagler though?


How would Northstar stop Jimmy Kleinsasser?

I still remember that game in 1995 when Carrington beat MPCG in the semi-final game at the state tournament. It seemed like he beat them by himself against what was considered their most talented team during their state tournament runs.


I remember in one of the region tournament games that year he went up to throw down a one handed dunk, but missed and hit the back iron. That ball had so much force behind it that it rebounded all the way back past half court.
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby packers21 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:21 am

ndlionsfan wrote:
winner-within wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:
lockdown wrote:
kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?

How would that Carrington team slow down Jake Hagler though?


How would Northstar stop Jimmy Kleinsasser?


They wouldn't....you take a 1982/83 Munich team, 1983/84 Lankin/Adams, 1991/92 Munich, Craig/Kyle Nelson teams, 2010/11 Cavalier.....all these teams would rise holy havoc on any team in the State right now


Have a really tough time believing the Cavalier teams of the last two years would be that much better than teams of this season. The other teams you listed, yes, but Cavalier no.



I agree I wasnt going to say though. And didnt NorthStar beat them that year anyways. I know they had Komrosky and Lindahl but they havent missed a beat without them.
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:21 am

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:
lockdown wrote:
kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?

How would that Carrington team slow down Jake Hagler though?


How would Northstar stop Jimmy Kleinsasser?


Simple answer, you can't.

I will give you a very biased opinion why I do think the NS teams of recent years could play with any of the teams mentioned. Will use the 2010 NS team because I had an "oar in the water" you might say.

That team played a lot of full court man-man pressure where their guards were extremely good at jump/trap and jump/switch. Their secondary defenders were extremely good at jumping the long passing lanes. They would have at least 3 - 4, 10 point runs in every game. They were deep and they were offensively potent. Never seemed to miss a beat during sub rotation. They excelled at steals and fast break layups, but also had 5 guys on the court that were extremely good shooters. They rebounded and passed well as a team.
With their pressure, they were also susceptible to giving up some points. When they played teams only once during the year, the opposing team just didn't realize how quick they could put up points until it was too late. When they played teams more then once, if that team was disciplined and could "weather the storm" they gave themselves a shot. Teams with a dominant post player will always be better equipped because they have a better chance at controlling the boards and therefore the tempo of the game. JMHO


I agree with some of your points and I do believe the Northstar teams could play with a lot of those teams listed. But every was you described how Northstar would stick with the teams, also applies to almost all of those other teams as well. While we just remember many of the stars on those teams, they were all very deep and talented.
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:32 am

ndlionsfan wrote:
I agree with some of your points and I do believe the Northstar teams could play with a lot of those teams listed. But every was you described how Northstar would stick with the teams, also applies to almost all of those other teams as well. While we just remember many of the stars on those teams, they were all very deep and talented.


You're absolutely right. Everyone also has a favorite decade where they think that the best basketball is played, or the best athletes played. That's just how it is.
The reason I used that team is I watched them last year in the college division at the DL tournament. They played a Warwick team with Lawrence, Gourd (man, can they still play) and Langstaff. A Travis Merten lead team. A Jamestown team with BJ Mertens. The NS team won the tournament. Some of them also played in another division against the 2005 New Rockford team and beat them I believe. Was fun seeing all these kids on the court at the same time to be able to compare talent levels. I base some of my opinion on that and also the fact that I have watched an awful lot of bb over the last 35 years. Yes, I am old.
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:46 am

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:
I agree with some of your points and I do believe the Northstar teams could play with a lot of those teams listed. But every was you described how Northstar would stick with the teams, also applies to almost all of those other teams as well. While we just remember many of the stars on those teams, they were all very deep and talented.


You're absolutely right. Everyone also has a favorite decade where they think that the best basketball is played, or the best athletes played. That's just how it is.
The reason I used that team is I watched them last year in the college division at the DL tournament. They played a Warwick team with Lawrence, Gourd (man, can they still play) and Langstaff. A Travis Merten lead team. A Jamestown team with BJ Mertens. The NS team won the tournament. Some of them also played in another division against the 2005 New Rockford team and beat them I believe. Was fun seeing all these kids on the court at the same time to be able to compare talent levels. I base some of my opinion on that and also the fact that I have watched an awful lot of bb over the last 35 years. Yes, I am old.


That is pretty impressive. Who played on the NS team at that tournament?
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Re: Jake Hagler vs Hunter Berg

Postby winner-within » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:49 am

ndlionsfan wrote:
winner-within wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:
lockdown wrote:
kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?

How would that Carrington team slow down Jake Hagler though?


How would Northstar stop Jimmy Kleinsasser?


They wouldn't....you take a 1982/83 Munich team, 1983/84 Lankin/Adams, 1991/92 Munich, Craig/Kyle Nelson teams, 2010/11 Cavalier.....all these teams would rise holy havoc on any team in the State right now


Have a really tough time believing the Cavalier teams of the last two years would be that much better than teams of this season. The other teams you listed, yes, but Cavalier no.


I used the two years..(Exam: 83/84) as a reference to 1 team
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