3 class proposal

[winner-within]

Now you can all Shut Up and quit Cryin! (both sides)...

[heimer]

Well, it doesn't affect volleyball, which has very similar challenges, so I don't think we're done just yet. We're just moving to a different thread.

[WalkingStick]

Well, it doesn't affect volleyball, which has very similar challenges, so I don't think we're done just yet. We're just moving to a different thread.

When this all started the talk was only about basketball...I don't foresee a volleyball discussion for at least 2 years

[Class B]

What's done is now done, I guess. So the fun griping now goes to Region placement...

I wish they would have addressed the "unbalanced" NE vs. NW region in Division A. 6 teams is too little and 9 teams are too much (especially when there's 6 teams in the other region). This makes the case that travel will be a nightmare under the new plan (shoot! I thought I was done griping about it...)

I think there's a couple Co-op scenarios that might change that. Max boys could end up joining South Prairie (like they already do for girls) which moved SP up and puts a 10th team in that NW region. Also... Drake/Anamoose might be a question mark too. They are down to just a varsity team and I'm not sure what sort of numbers follow. They could join up with Velva or Harvey... putting either both of them up a division.

One... and definitely both... of these scenarios pushes Rugby and probably Bottineau/Dunseith and TM out east. The Surrey/Sawyer coop is another to watch, but perhaps more for a dissolution as I don't think Surrey would want to move up.

Sorry, my reckless speculation tends to focus more on the Minot area with my comments since I'm more familiar with those schools.

[WalkingStick]

What's done is now done, I guess. So the fun griping now goes to Region placement...

I wish they would have addressed the "unbalanced" NE vs. NW region in Division A. 6 teams is too little and 9 teams are too much (especially when there's 6 teams in the other region). This makes the case that travel will be a nightmare under the new plan (shoot! I thought I was done griping about it...)

I think there's a couple Co-op scenarios that might change that. Max boys could end up joining South Prairie (like they already do for girls) which moved SP up and puts a 10th team in that NW region. Also... Drake/Anamoose might be a question mark too. They are down to just a varsity team and I'm not sure what sort of numbers follow. They could join up with Velva or Harvey... putting either both of them up a division.

One... and definitely both... of these scenarios pushes Rugby and probably Bottineau/Dunseith and TM out east. The Surrey/Sawyer coop is another to watch, but perhaps more for a dissolution as I don't think Surrey would want to move up.

Sorry, my reckless speculation tends to focus more on the Minot area with my comments since I'm more familiar with those schools.

or does SP drop Max and W-L drop Hankinson in Girls to avoid being in the middle class?

[bison football73]

What's done is now done, I guess. So the fun griping now goes to Region placement...

I wish they would have addressed the "unbalanced" NE vs. NW region in Division A. 6 teams is too little and 9 teams are too much (especially when there's 6 teams in the other region). This makes the case that travel will be a nightmare under the new plan (shoot! I thought I was done griping about it...)

I think there's a couple Co-op scenarios that might change that. Max boys could end up joining South Prairie (like they already do for girls) which moved SP up and puts a 10th team in that NW region. Also... Drake/Anamoose might be a question mark too. They are down to just a varsity team and I'm not sure what sort of numbers follow. They could join up with Velva or Harvey... putting either both of them up a division.

One... and definitely both... of these scenarios pushes Rugby and probably Bottineau/Dunseith and TM out east. The Surrey/Sawyer coop is another to watch, but perhaps more for a dissolution as I don't think Surrey would want to move up.

Sorry, my reckless speculation tends to focus more on the Minot area with my comments since I'm more familiar with those schools.

or does SP drop Max and W-L drop Hankinson in Girls to avoid being in the middle class?

This is almost guaranteed what will happen.

[Flip]

I don't know how serious it is, but I've heard rumblings about the HCV coop. I've always thought that relationship was rock solid and in the end, they may never have serious talks of breaking apart.

[Class B]

What's done is now done, I guess. So the fun griping now goes to Region placement...

I wish they would have addressed the "unbalanced" NE vs. NW region in Division A. 6 teams is too little and 9 teams are too much (especially when there's 6 teams in the other region). This makes the case that travel will be a nightmare under the new plan (shoot! I thought I was done griping about it...)

I think there's a couple Co-op scenarios that might change that. Max boys could end up joining South Prairie (like they already do for girls) which moved SP up and puts a 10th team in that NW region. Also... Drake/Anamoose might be a question mark too. They are down to just a varsity team and I'm not sure what sort of numbers follow. They could join up with Velva or Harvey... putting either both of them up a division.

One... and definitely both... of these scenarios pushes Rugby and probably Bottineau/Dunseith and TM out east. The Surrey/Sawyer coop is another to watch, but perhaps more for a dissolution as I don't think Surrey would want to move up.

Sorry, my reckless speculation tends to focus more on the Minot area with my comments since I'm more familiar with those schools.

or does SP drop Max and W-L drop Hankinson in Girls to avoid being in the middle class?

This is almost guaranteed what will happen.

Sure it could. If that becomes a habit of the membership, the NDHSAA will certainly have to address that as one of their first "tweaks".... and, IMO, the early answer to that is to raise the 162.5 threshold to get the B's down to Class B...and coops can thrive.

The plan approved this morning will do nothing to gain more teams (i.e. misses the point of why there's declining participation in small rural towns) and does nothing to promote coops... so teams struggling to field a varsity team without pulling up their entire 7th grade roster will have no place to go.

[UNDSiouxfan]

It seems that many of the naysayers on here have an attitude of "Us against Devils Lake."

Being originally from Devils Lake, I can tell you that during my time there, under no circumstances would we wanted to be in any level but the top class. And, I'd go on a limb to say that the majority of people that want DL out of AA are from Fargo, because they don't like making that trip. DL people never minded the trip to Fargo, yes it made for some long nights but it also made for great times on bus trips. Now, that was 25-30 years ago.

People from DL today are probably 1/2 & 1/2 on this plan. Travel will be much better, and they will still be able to regularly schedule AA teams like Grand Forks, which are much closer geographically. The truth is they're the main team that's stuck in a bad spot. Watford City has higher enrollment, but they've never been able to compete in AA. DL can compete, WC needs to be down. Maybe there can be some consideration for DL to opt up or down based on their talent level for a 2-3 year period? I understand the points made by the Tommies, their argument makes perfect sense but again DL is not wanted by a lot of AA schools (especially Fargo.)

The focus of this debate shouldn't be on who's predicted to win the championship each year. The focus needs to be on the small schools having that opportunity to compete against schools of similar size. 3 classes being created for the purpose of better competition across the entire state, based on enrollment/other factors. I commend the NDHSAA for finally taking this step. Thanks for putting in the work, and I for one have been very critical of the NDHSAA over the years.

One last point. The big B will be back! Time will tell, but I truly believe that attendance will be through the roof at the 2023-2024 State B. In fact, I see attendance being high at all 3 tournaments.

[WalkingStick]

They’ll be high with two tourneys at the same time??
Several neutral fans will now have to choose one or the other instead of attending all

[theboss]

Does anyone know what the schedule will look like for class b schools? Playing District opponents and then can fill the rest of schedule with non district opponents? Out of state opponents? Class A opponents that are geographically closer for travel?

[maddog1971]

I am just excited to watch all the new players and teams coming back because they don't have to play the Class A schools. Class B will be awesome when you have the same 6 teams in the tournament every year. But now the small Class A schools will lose their programs because nobody will want to play because they are getting beat all the time by the AA schools playing in A.
Same problem just moved the problem to different schools. Four years from now everyone will be complaining about MPCG being in the tournament to much and they need to move to A.

[Class B]

It seems that many of the naysayers on here have an attitude of "Us against Devils Lake."

Being originally from Devils Lake, I can tell you that during my time there, under no circumstances would we wanted to be in any level but the top class. And, I'd go on a limb to say that the majority of people that want DL out of AA are from Fargo, because they don't like making that trip. DL people never minded the trip to Fargo, yes it made for some long nights but it also made for great times on bus trips. Now, that was 25-30 years ago.

People from DL today are probably 1/2 & 1/2 on this plan. Travel will be much better, and they will still be able to regularly schedule AA teams like Grand Forks, which are much closer geographically. The truth is they're the main team that's stuck in a bad spot. Watford City has higher enrollment, but they've never been able to compete in AA. DL can compete, WC needs to be down. Maybe there can be some consideration for DL to opt up or down based on their talent level for a 2-3 year period? I understand the points made by the Tommies, their argument makes perfect sense but again DL is not wanted by a lot of AA schools (especially Fargo.)

The focus of this debate shouldn't be on who's predicted to win the championship each year. The focus needs to be on the small schools having that opportunity to compete against schools of similar size. 3 classes being created for the purpose of better competition across the entire state, based on enrollment/other factors. I commend the NDHSAA for finally taking this step. Thanks for putting in the work, and I for one have been very critical of the NDHSAA over the years.

One last point. The big B will be back! Time will tell, but I truly believe that attendance will be through the roof at the 2023-2024 State B. In fact, I see attendance being high at all 3 tournaments.

Could be a decent rivalry established between Devils Lake and Rugby.. provided Rugby continues to pound out the participation numbers they have enjoyed thus far... and, you know... goes out east where they should be.

[Class B]

I am just excited to watch all the new players and teams coming back because they don't have to play the Class A schools. Class B will be awesome when you have the same 6 teams in the tournament every year. But now the small Class A schools will lose their programs because nobody will want to play because they are getting beat all the time by the AA schools playing in A.
Same problem just moved the problem to different schools. Four years from now everyone will be complaining about MPCG being in the tournament to much and they need to move to A.

Plenty of truth to this.

[WalkingStick]

Does anyone know what the schedule will look like for class b schools? Playing District opponents and then can fill the rest of schedule with non district opponents? Out of state opponents? Class A opponents that are geographically closer for travel?

They left scheduling up to the districts. I'm going to guess that some district teams will play twice to cut down on travel and help fill non-district/region game slots

[Thundersnow]

They’ll be high with two tourneys at the same time??
Several neutral fans will now have to choose one or the other instead of attending all

How many neutral or casual fans were going to all 3 State tournament weekends? Or even both Class B State tournaments? I personally don't think that number was very high.

[WalkingStick]

They’ll be high with two tourneys at the same time??
Several neutral fans will now have to choose one or the other instead of attending all

How many neutral or casual fans were going to all 3 State tournament weekends? Or even both Class B State tournaments? I personally don't think that number was very high.

I think you'd be amazed on the number of casual fans that attended games for fun.

I wonder, a little, if this will put some radio stations in a bind as well.

But I knew there would be no starting earlier or later changes so two at the same time was most likely to happen.

[Flip]

I am just excited to watch all the new players and teams coming back because they don't have to play the Class A schools. Class B will be awesome when you have the same 6 teams in the tournament every year. But now the small Class A schools will lose their programs because nobody will want to play because they are getting beat all the time by the AA schools playing in A.
Same problem just moved the problem to different schools. Four years from now everyone will be complaining about MPCG being in the tournament to much and they need to move to A.

So what is the fix?

[Attack the Process]

There is some truth to what you are saying, but I don't think it will be as bad as you make it out to be. One factor that I think will be key to that is the plan's idea of a committee being created to monitor each division's competitiveness. They say that the committee will be the deciding factor after the first two years on which teams should be playing in which divisions. I am curious to see how that pans out. I wish they would have had the success/non-success factors in the plan so everyone knew from the beginning what to look for.

I am just excited to watch all the new players and teams coming back because they don't have to play the Class A schools. Class B will be awesome when you have the same 6 teams in the tournament every year. But now the small Class A schools will lose their programs because nobody will want to play because they are getting beat all the time by the AA schools playing in A.
Same problem just moved the problem to different schools. Four years from now everyone will be complaining about MPCG being in the tournament to much and they need to move to A.

[heimer]

Talked to one Class AA coach in the EDC last night. Schedule already complete, finding four new opponents and keeping a Class A team on their schedule that they are losing.

Talked to a B coach changing regions. Two games left to fix up.

This narrative that ADs are being put through the ringer on this seems to be a narrative of choice. It would appear that coaches are taking an active role and admins have been working ahead to get in front of it.

If you didn't do that, it's not the vote that put you in a corner.

[Thundersnow]

Talked to one Class AA coach in the EDC last night. Schedule already complete, finding four new opponents and keeping a Class A team on their schedule that they are losing.

Talked to a B coach changing regions. Two games left to fix up.

This narrative that ADs are being put through the ringer on this seems to be a narrative of choice. It would appear that coaches are taking an active role and admins have been working ahead to get in front of it.

If you didn't do that, it's not the vote that put you in a corner.

To me, the most fascinating schedules to see will be for the teams in the new Class A.

Class AA teams will largely keep their same schedules, just with the addition of closer Class A games for the weaker programs and cross-conference games or out-of-state games for the traditional powerhouses.

Class B teams can keep most of their schedules intact too, with the best teams challenging themselves with some Class A games.

Class A will be interesting to me. What do New Town, Lisbon, Heart River and Nedrose do? Mostly Class B opponents mixed with their required Region games?
How about Devils Lake, Turtle Mountain, Valley City and Wahpeton? Do they keep games against the Grand Forks, Jamestown and/or Fargo schools? Or do they prioritize geography over challenging themselves against Class AA?

I don't feel bad for ADs, it's their jobs to fill out schedules. But I will acknowledge that their jobs have gotten a little more difficult with this new system. I'm excited for the change and to see what everyone's schedule looks like for next season.

[packers21]

Talked to one Class AA coach in the EDC last night. Schedule already complete, finding four new opponents and keeping a Class A team on their schedule that they are losing.

Talked to a B coach changing regions. Two games left to fix up.

This narrative that ADs are being put through the ringer on this seems to be a narrative of choice. It would appear that coaches are taking an active role and admins have been working ahead to get in front of it.

If you didn't do that, it's not the vote that put you in a corner.

To me, the most fascinating schedules to see will be for the teams in the new Class A.

Class AA teams will largely keep their same schedules, just with the addition of closer Class A games for the weaker programs and cross-conference games or out-of-state games for the traditional powerhouses.

Class B teams can keep most of their schedules intact too, with the best teams challenging themselves with some Class A games.

Class A will be interesting to me. What do New Town, Lisbon, Heart River and Nedrose do? Mostly Class B opponents mixed with their required Region games?
How about Devils Lake, Turtle Mountain, Valley City and Wahpeton? Do they keep games against the Grand Forks, Jamestown and/or Fargo schools? Or do they prioritize geography over challenging themselves against Class AA?

I don't feel bad for ADs, it's their jobs to fill out schedules. But I will acknowledge that their jobs have gotten a little more difficult with this new system. I'm excited for the change and to see what everyone's schedule looks like for next season.

Just a couple of clueless dudes talking about things they don’t understand. Next rounds on me.

[Thundersnow]

Packers21, thanks for the compliment. Since we are so clueless, unintelligent dudes who don't understand basketball schedules, can you enlighten us? Do you know what everybody's schedules are for next year?

[BasketballMind]

Any critique or examples to the contrary aren't worth the time it takes to type them. Anecdotal evidence by talking to two coaches is just that. That's what happens when you rush something like this through to get brownie points on the internet.

Edit: My bad, I guess this was a critique.

[Flying Wallenda]

Talked to one Class AA coach in the EDC last night. Schedule already complete, finding four new opponents and keeping a Class A team on their schedule that they are losing.

Talked to a B coach changing regions. Two games left to fix up.

This narrative that ADs are being put through the ringer on this seems to be a narrative of choice. It would appear that coaches are taking an active role and admins have been working ahead to get in front of it.

If you didn't do that, it's not the vote that put you in a corner.

To me, the most fascinating schedules to see will be for the teams in the new Class A.

Class AA teams will largely keep their same schedules, just with the addition of closer Class A games for the weaker programs and cross-conference games or out-of-state games for the traditional powerhouses.

Class B teams can keep most of their schedules intact too, with the best teams challenging themselves with some Class A games.

Class A will be interesting to me. What do New Town, Lisbon, Heart River and Nedrose do? Mostly Class B opponents mixed with their required Region games?
How about Devils Lake, Turtle Mountain, Valley City and Wahpeton? Do they keep games against the Grand Forks, Jamestown and/or Fargo schools? Or do they prioritize geography over challenging themselves against Class AA?

I don't feel bad for ADs, it's their jobs to fill out schedules. But I will acknowledge that their jobs have gotten a little more difficult with this new system. I'm excited for the change and to see what everyone's schedule looks like for next season.

Just a couple of clueless dudes talking about things they don’t understand. Next rounds on me.

I actually LOL at this........