2019-2020 CLASS B BBB POLL

[packers21]

The non call happens at a hard place of the floor to see if there was an actual foul and it's impossible to know (by watching the video) what was said by the coach.

Yes, if you’re going to do anything there give a warning. Officials never want to involve themselves in the outcome of a game and this directly did, again.

That is BS. This official does. He's done it before as previously mentioned.

I said it shouldn’t of been a T, give a warning if anything. Swallow the whistle and let the kids decide it.

[Flying Wallenda]

The non call happens at a hard place of the floor to see if there was an actual foul and it's impossible to know (by watching the video) what was said by the coach.

Yes, if you’re going to do anything there give a warning. Officials never want to involve themselves in the outcome of a game and this directly did, again.

That is BS. This official does. He's done it before as previously mentioned.

I said it shouldn’t of been a T, give a warning if anything. Swallow the whistle and let the kids decide it.

Who had the ball at the time of the T?
What was the score?
How much time was left?
Did they make both FT’s?

[packers21]

The non call happens at a hard place of the floor to see if there was an actual foul and it's impossible to know (by watching the video) what was said by the coach.

Yes, if you’re going to do anything there give a warning. Officials never want to involve themselves in the outcome of a game and this directly did, again.

That is BS. This official does. He's done it before as previously mentioned.

I said it shouldn’t of been a T, give a warning if anything. Swallow the whistle and let the kids decide it.

Who had the ball at the time of the T?
What was the score?
How much time was left?
Did they make both FT’s?

Go watch it on YouTube. CC streams all their games happens with like 59 seconds left.

[Flip]

Who had the ball at the time of the T?
What was the score?
How much time was left?
Did they make both FT’s?

[Flying Wallenda]

The non call happens at a hard place of the floor to see if there was an actual foul and it's impossible to know (by watching the video) what was said by the coach.

Yes, if you’re going to do anything there give a warning. Officials never want to involve themselves in the outcome of a game and this directly did, again.

That is BS. This official does. He's done it before as previously mentioned.

I said it shouldn’t of been a T, give a warning if anything. Swallow the whistle and let the kids decide it.

Who had the ball at the time of the T? HCV
What was the score? 57-57
How much time was left? 59 Seconds
Did they make both FT’s? Made 1 of 2

That decided the game?

[vikingman]

I don't know that the 'T' made any difference. HIllsboro had possession already, and they only made 1 free throw. They ended up winning by 7.

[maddog1971]

Watching CC boys basketball team play is like watching the CC dive team. You can not fall over 10 times a game and expect the call to be a charge. It is taught behavior.
If someone runs you over yep foul. If someone turns to pass and you fall over....... come on. Play basketball.

[The Schwab]

On the play the shooter stuck his leg out which is where it looked like the trip occurs. Tough to tell from that angle, but based on how the defender fell I think it was because of the extended leg of the shooter. Not sure about the T, from the video it looks like the official let him by with the first round, official turned his head and coach kept going. I'm not sure about the whole "warning" thing, but I can see why the T was called. Not sure what the player yelled with his hands cupping his mouth after the T was given, but it looked to be in direction of the official, which I hope wasn't the case. T didn't decide the game

[Run4Fun2009]

EIGHTH POLL
Monday, February 3rd

1. Four Winds-Minnewaukan (16) 12-0 160
2. Rugby 13-1 113
3. St. John 11-1 111
4. Richland 10-1 110
5. Shiloh Christian 12-2 92
6. Hatton-Northwood 10-2 89
7. Enderlin 11-1 73
8. Hillsboro-Central Valley 10-3 48
9. Beulah 12-3 29
10. Dickinson Trinity 13-2 23
Others Receiving Votes (RV): New Rockford-Sheyenne (9-3), Thompson (8-4), Bowman County (11-2), Kindred (9-3), Edgeley-Kulm-Montpelier (11-2), New Salem-Almont (11-2), Cavalier (8-4).

[winner-within]

FIRST POLL
Monday, December 16th

1. Four Winds-Minnewaukan (10) 0-0 169
2. Hillsboro-Central Valley (2) 0-0 153
3. Rugby (3) 0-0 134
4. Shiloh Christian (3) 1-0 132
5. Richland 0-0 113
6. Beulah 0-0 62
7. Linton-HMB 2-0 57
8. Ray 0-0 42
9. Dickinson Trinity 0-1 36
10. Langdon/Edmore/Munich 1-0 25
Others Receiving Votes (RV): Thompson (0-1), Central Cass (1-0), Enderlin (1-0), St. John (1-0), Oakes (1-0), Dakota Prairie (1-0), New Rockford-Sheyenne (0-0), Edgeley-Kulm-Montpelier (0-0), Hatton-Northwood (0-1), Oak Grove (0-0), Powers Lake (0-0).


EIGHTH POLL
Monday, February 3rd

1. Four Winds-Minnewaukan (16) 12-0 160
2. Rugby 13-1 113
3. St. John 11-1 111
4. Richland 10-1 110
5. Shiloh Christian 12-2 92
6. Hatton-Northwood 10-2 89
7. Enderlin 11-1 73
8. Hillsboro-Central Valley 10-3 48
9. Beulah 12-3 29
10. Dickinson Trinity 13-2 23
Others Receiving Votes (RV): New Rockford-Sheyenne (9-3), Thompson (8-4), Bowman County (11-2), Kindred (9-3), Edgeley-Kulm-Montpelier (11-2), New Salem-Almont (11-2), Cavalier (8-4).

in 8 Polls, lots has changed "2020 Roller Coaster Ride"

[The Schwab]

7 teams in the top 10 were in the first top 10. I don't think there has been that much change.

edit: I'll agree with you that the bottom half of the poll and RV's have had some change, but I think the top 6-7 teams are still the same. Everyone in the current poll was at least receiving votes in the first poll

[spins]

i could probably predict the top 5 teams in the polls in 2025 right now.

[maddog1971]

i could probably predict the top 5 teams in the polls in 2025 right now.

Now this I would like to see.....

[The Schwab]

If you give me the chance to rank 10 teams I would dare to bet I would have 5 in top 10 in 2025

[ND Sports Fan]

On the play the shooter stuck his leg out which is where it looked like the trip occurs. Tough to tell from that angle, but based on how the defender fell I think it was because of the extended leg of the shooter. Not sure about the T, from the video it looks like the official let him by with the first round, official turned his head and coach kept going. I'm not sure about the whole "warning" thing, but I can see why the T was called. Not sure what the player yelled with his hands cupping his mouth after the T was given, but it looked to be in direction of the official, which I hope wasn't the case. T didn't decide the game

Schwab, I respectfully disagree. The T was a 3 point swing in score and a clear momentum changer. I do not know what was said, but there clearly was no warning, and this official made the game about him, rather than the kids on the court. It that situation, tie game, 59 seconds left, a T has to be something pretty awful from my perspective. Nothing in that game had risen to that level from either side up until that point. This is an official with a chip on his shoulder, officiated a girls game in CC the night previous and got an earful, and has a history of making sure players and coaches know who is in charge. I would never condone poor behavior by players or coaches, but this was neither of those.

[The Schwab]

I don't know this official or any of the history there may be with any school in the area. Again, I'm not sure what the policy is on "warnings" as I've never heard of one. I stand by my view of the play. If the policy is there has to be a warning before a technical is assessed then that would change my view, but if it is an unwritten rule, I stand by my view. It doesn't matter to me what time is left in the game and it shouldn't matter if it's the first or fourth quarter, a foul is a foul. People always say they don't want officials at the end of a game to decide the game by making a call, but aren't they deciding the game by not making a call that would be called in the first quarter?

[ND Sports Fan]

I don't know this official or any of the history there may be with any school in the area. Again, I'm not sure what the policy is on "warnings" as I've never heard of one. I stand by my view of the play. If the policy is there has to be a warning before a technical is assessed then that would change my view, but if it is an unwritten rule, I stand by my view. It doesn't matter to me what time is left in the game and it shouldn't matter if it's the first or fourth quarter, a foul is a foul. People always say they don't want officials at the end of a game to decide the game by making a call, but aren't they deciding the game by not making a call that would be called in the first quarter?

I would generally agree that a if something is a foul in the 1st qtr, the same action should be a foul late in the 4th. I'm with you. A technical, however, is a judgement call, and this judgement changed the overall feeling of what was otherwise a well played game by 2 pretty good teams.

CC has much bigger issues than a poorly called T late in a game.

[maddog1971]

I am with Schwab on this one. The CC is known as a flopping team currently and one player for sure. Which is fine because they have gotten lots of calls so good for them. But to blame the official and not the coach is just crazy. The coach made the decision to yell at the official. The Ref does not have to give a warning. The coach should know better.
Blame your coach.
Ref's are human.... they make mistakes, they see the game the way they are seeing it. Sometimes it goes your way and sometimes not. I always told my players part of basketball is adapting to the way the game is called. Some Ref's call hand checks and some don't... some call "overback calls" some feel if one kid jumped higher and got the rebound... good for him.

[packers21]

I am with Schwab on this one. The CC is known as a flopping team currently and one player for sure. Which is fine because they have gotten lots of calls so good for them. But to blame the official and not the coach is just crazy. The coach made the decision to yell at the official. The Ref does not have to give a warning. The coach should know better.
Blame your coach.
Ref's are human.... they make mistakes, they see the game the way they are seeing it. Sometimes it goes your way and sometimes not. I always told my players part of basketball is adapting to the way the game is called. Some Ref's call hand checks and some don't... some call "overback calls" some feel if one kid jumped higher and got the rebound... good for him.

They flop almost as much as Kindred

[leroybla]

Interesting comments. I ask though, what gets you considered to be an 'excessively flopping' team? I have a hard time remembering a single contested layup, regardless of the amount of contact, that didn't end with both players on the floor. I watch a lot of games and don't see any particular 'leaders' in flopping. Is 'flopping' taught in practice?

[HighSchoolSportsFan]

On the play the shooter stuck his leg out which is where it looked like the trip occurs. Tough to tell from that angle, but based on how the defender fell I think it was because of the extended leg of the shooter. Not sure about the T, from the video it looks like the official let him by with the first round, official turned his head and coach kept going. I'm not sure about the whole "warning" thing, but I can see why the T was called. Not sure what the player yelled with his hands cupping his mouth after the T was given, but it looked to be in direction of the official, which I hope wasn't the case. T didn't decide the game

Schwab, I respectfully disagree. The T was a 3 point swing in score and a clear momentum changer. I do not know what was said, but there clearly was no warning, and this official made the game about him, rather than the kids on the court. It that situation, tie game, 59 seconds left, a T has to be something pretty awful from my perspective. Nothing in that game had risen to that level from either side up until that point. This is an official with a chip on his shoulder, officiated a girls game in CC the night previous and got an earful, and has a history of making sure players and coaches know who is in charge. I would never condone poor behavior by players or coaches, but this was neither of those.

Not sure I agree that it was a 3 point swing as they only made one free throw and did not give up a possession as HCV already had the ball.
As far as the warning goes, that was an option given officials a couple years ago, you do not have to give a warning but it is an option. If that was the first "issue" with the coach during the course of the game, it may be that the warning would have been the better route, unless of course the comments from the coach rose to the level that would warrant a T no matter what the situation was. There are a lot of factors that play into it that we don't know just from watching this video. What you can see in the video is that there is clearly an exchange between the coach and the official and as the official is leaving the area, turns back to call the T. To me that would indicate that the coach took one more shot at him on the way out so to speak (just as Schwab alluded to). If, as you say, this official has a history of "making sure players and coaches know who is in charge" why would the coach take that sort of chance at that stage of the game? The statement of "let the players decide the game" is fine in principal but you can't set aside the rules to that end. It is actually the coach who "made the game about him" in this case.

[ND Sports Fan]

On the play the shooter stuck his leg out which is where it looked like the trip occurs. Tough to tell from that angle, but based on how the defender fell I think it was because of the extended leg of the shooter. Not sure about the T, from the video it looks like the official let him by with the first round, official turned his head and coach kept going. I'm not sure about the whole "warning" thing, but I can see why the T was called. Not sure what the player yelled with his hands cupping his mouth after the T was given, but it looked to be in direction of the official, which I hope wasn't the case. T didn't decide the game

Schwab, I respectfully disagree. The T was a 3 point swing in score and a clear momentum changer. I do not know what was said, but there clearly was no warning, and this official made the game about him, rather than the kids on the court. It that situation, tie game, 59 seconds left, a T has to be something pretty awful from my perspective. Nothing in that game had risen to that level from either side up until that point. This is an official with a chip on his shoulder, officiated a girls game in CC the night previous and got an earful, and has a history of making sure players and coaches know who is in charge. I would never condone poor behavior by players or coaches, but this was neither of those.

Not sure I agree that it was a 3 point swing as they only made one free throw and did not give up a possession as HCV already had the ball.
As far as the warning goes, that was an option given officials a couple years ago, you do not have to give a warning but it is an option. If that was the first "issue" with the coach during the course of the game, it may be that the warning would have been the better route, unless of course the comments from the coach rose to the level that would warrant a T no matter what the situation was. There are a lot of factors that play into it that we don't know just from watching this video. What you can see in the video is that there is clearly an exchange between the coach and the official and as the official is leaving the area, turns back to call the T. To me that would indicate that the coach took one more shot at him on the way out so to speak (just as Schwab alluded to). If, as you say, this official has a history of "making sure players and coaches know who is in charge" why would the coach take that sort of chance at that stage of the game? The statement of "let the players decide the game" is fine in principal but you can't set aside the rules to that end. It is actually the coach who "made the game about him" in this case.

100% agree, which is why I stated, CC has bigger issues than the T.

I have a logistical question that I don't know the answer to. Since many on here talking about "flopping", can officials call a technical foul on a player they have determined is "flopping" excessively?

[Flip]

Pretty sure a flop is supposed be a technical foul. I've never seen it called.

[maddog1971]

Pretty sure it is not a technical foul in High School in North Dakota. Maybe wrong. I know in college it is for sure.

And if that T did cause them the game then it was the coaches fault... not the Ref.

[packers21]

I dont think its a T in High School ND, they could call a block and thats about it.

I think we all have our own opinion on the T and thats fine, mine is this and will not change.

I do believe it was a foul on the shooter and the corner and as an official in that situation I would have gone with a warning unless something egregious was said, which I doubt. I do believe the T changed the dynamic of the game and shifted momentum. If you see it the other way around thats your opinion and you are entitled to it. Tough call either way.