Feelings on Parochial schools?

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Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby gobison15247 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:21 am

i have heard a lot of grombling in past years about the parochial schools being in class b. i was just wondering what some thoughts are around the state about some of things being talked about with parochial schools, i.e. them recruting students to come play sports vs. going to a larger school. i have heard this many times over the years and would like to hear what you thinkg about it? should they be class b? not big enough for class a? should they have thier own tournement?
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby ndfan » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:49 pm

This topic comes up I would say at least once or twice a year (maybe more stopped counting long time ago) here is a link in the hot topic forum on it. I'm sure you can find a few more topics on it there also.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=344
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby scruffy » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:14 pm

I have very good feelings about private schools. In general kids receive a good well rounded education and test higher, are better prepared for college, tend to be involved in more curricular activities and God isn't forbidden from their lives if they choose. The cost per pupil for the education is also much lower then our state funded schools so the value is exceptional as they tend to be much leaner and meaner. As far as sports go I don't know of any that openly recruit athletes and it's no different then the public schools open enrollment that North Dakota offers. They're number one priority is education and they're not in the business to just win a district or regional championship in sports.
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby The Schwab » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:33 pm

I don't know if this topic will stay open for very long, usually these get out of control
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby winner-within » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:42 pm

Also "feelings" is just what it is....and "feelings" alone Don't change policies and State Rules....on a School level or a State government level or a City Counsel level....easy for me to say though....our region has not one private School or Reservation School...if it did? we may have a louder voice on how things are handled at Both.

Now you could use "Opinions" you could use "perspectives" or any other term but the the Bottom line is....It is just going to cause "hard feelings"...see, there is that emotional word again!
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby classB4ever » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:44 pm

scruffy wrote:I have very good feelings about private schools. In general kids receive a good well rounded education and test higher, are better prepared for college, tend to be involved in more curricular activities and God isn't forbidden from their lives if they choose. The cost per pupil for the education is also much lower then our state funded schools so the value is exceptional as they tend to be much leaner and meaner. As far as sports go I don't know of any that openly recruit athletes and it's no different then the public schools open enrollment that North Dakota offers. They're number one priority is education and they're not in the business to just win a district or regional championship in sports.


Statements like the above are what drive me crazy on this subject.
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby footballchicken » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:28 pm

Above comment about open enrollment......

SO TRUE:
Every school can "recruit" - as long as the parents of the kids are crazy enough to up and move to another district
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby classB4ever » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:57 pm

scruffy wrote:I have very good feelings about private schools. In general kids receive a good well rounded education and (1)test higher, (2)are better prepared for college, (3)tend to be involved in more curricular activities and (4)God isn't forbidden from their lives if they choose. (5)The cost per pupil for the education is also much lower then our state funded schools so the value is exceptional as they tend to be much leaner and meaner. As far as sports go I don't know of any that openly recruit athletes and (6)it's no different then the public schools open enrollment that North Dakota offers. They're number one priority is education and they're not in the business to just win a district or regional championship in sports.


scruffy, would love to hear if you were just trying to stir the pot or if you firmly believe in your above statements.
Concerning:
1. So, you can prove that all students attending private schools test higher then all students attending public school. My, that's quite a statement. Guess our public students and teachers should be ashamed.
2. Proof, statistics?
3. Once again, you can prove this?
4. By attending public schools, God is forbidden from our students lives? Really? Think you may be wrong on this one.
5. Look below.
6. The difference is, as stated many times, you must move your family, household, etc.

With everything you said and especially referencing No. 5, I have only one simple question. If these schools are so very much better in every way as you have stated, so much leaner and meaner, then why have the enrollments essentially stayed the same? Seems to me that everyone should be flocking to private schools just to get out of our terrible public school system. Why hasn't that happened?
Last edited by classB4ever on Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:15 pm

classB4ever wrote:
scruffy wrote:I have very good feelings about private schools. In general kids receive a good well rounded education and (1)test higher, (2)are better prepared for college, (3)tend to be involved in more curricular activities and (4)God isn't forbidden from their lives if they choose. (5)The cost per pupil for the education is also much lower then our state funded schools so the value is exceptional as they tend to be much leaner and meaner. As far as sports go I don't know of any that openly recruit athletes and (6)it's no different then the public schools open enrollment that North Dakota offers. They're number one priority is education and they're not in the business to just win a district or regional championship in sports.


scruffy, would love to hear if you were just trying to stir the pot or if you firmly believe in your above statements.
Concerning:
1. So, you can prove that all students attending private schools test higher then all students attending public school. My, that's quite a statement. Guess our public students and teachers should be ashamed.
2. Proof, statistics?
3. Once again, you can prove this?
4. By attending public schools, God is forbidden from our students lives? Really? Think you may be wrong on this one.
5. Look below.
6. The difference is, as stated many times, you must move your family, household, etc.

With everything you said and especially referencing No. 5, I have only one simply question. If these schools are so very much better in every way as you have stated, so much leaner and meaner, then why have the enrollments essentially stayed the same? Seems to me that everyone should be flocking to private schools just to get out of our terrible public school system. Why hasn't that happened?


I think with #4...by attending a parochial school you are able to be more openly with God...whereas in a public school there have been many changes that are to remove God 'from the picture' (ex. public schools calling Christmas -> winter break, calling Easter -> spring break; its a growing situation across the U.S.)
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby classB4ever » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:26 pm

Run, I certainly know and can appreciate that. My problem is that scruffy seems to be taking private schools down an "Elitist" path with his comments and am wondering if that is his intention. Also, my final question does have a point and really not sure if I want to go down that road either.
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:32 pm

classB4ever wrote:Run, I certainly know and can appreciate that. My problem is that scruffy seems to be taking private schools down an "Elitist" path with his comments and am wondering if that is his intention. Also, my final question does have a point and really not sure if I want to go down that road either.


Well I can tell you (being from a private school)...there are great advantages of a parochial school, but we are far from "Elitists" (IMO). However, I do believe is some of what scruffy stated, however it can be different at each parochial school.
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby classB4ever » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:55 pm

Run, having great advantages simply means you are privileged. Scruffy's statements are saying that private schools are better in all of those categories, making you elite. In my mind there is a very big difference and would simply like to hear/see the proof of those statements. Fair enough?
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby NDplayin » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:52 am

It looks like there may be one point of rule that needs to be clarified before this topic goes to a dangerous place. Public and parochial schools are subject to the exact same rules when it comes to student-athlete transfers. If a student moves to a parochial school and his/her parents don't move, that student is inelligible for varsity play for two semesters... same as a public school. If the private school is within the same district boundaries as the previous school, the student is inelligible regardless of if the parents move or not.

For example, If a student from Williston High School transfers to Williston Trinity Christian, that student is inelligible from varsity play for two semesters.

Other than that, it seems to me like Scruffy and ClassB4ever are getting emotional about a topic that is only productive if discussed rationally. It seems to me like Scruffy defended his position with good intentions, but did so a little hastily and with poor word choice, and that ClassB4ever is over-reacting to Scruffy's enthusiasm. None-the-less, the one fact I know for sure is that transfer rules apply the same to both. I'll stay out of the emotional stuff.
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby classB4ever » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:32 am

NDplayin wrote:It looks like there may be one point of rule that needs to be clarified before this topic goes to a dangerous place. Public and parochial schools are subject to the exact same rules when it comes to student-athlete transfers. If a student moves to a parochial school and his/her parents don't move, that student is inelligible for varsity play for two semesters... same as a public school. If the private school is within the same district boundaries as the previous school, the student is inelligible regardless of if the parents move or not.

For example, If a student from Williston High School transfers to Williston Trinity Christian, that student is inelligible from varsity play for two semesters.

Other than that, it seems to me like Scruffy and ClassB4ever are getting emotional about a topic that is only productive if discussed rationally. It seems to me like Scruffy defended his position with good intentions, but did so a little hastily and with poor word choice, and that ClassB4ever is over-reacting to Scruffy's enthusiasm. None-the-less, the one fact I know for sure is that transfer rules apply the same to both. I'll stay out of the emotional stuff.


NDPlayin, it's good to see you came to scruffy's defense once again. I find it humorous how you always seem to give scruffy a free pass with his ridiculous statements. How did you put it, "defended his position with good intentions". However, if anybody dare call him out, they are "over-reacting to Scruffy's enthusiasm". Wow. That's good. In this instance, scruffy is defending something by completely bashing something else. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?
We have had numerous discussions in the past that have been rational. You are certainly entitled to your opinion that it gets emotional.
More then once I have conceded a point to keep a discussion moving along in a positive direction. On the other hand, I cannot recall one time that you or scruffy has been able to do that. Just once, I would like to hear scruffy, without your babysitting, come out and say he used a poor choice of words and you not defend him for his totally off the wall remarks. If you or he cannot do that, then my opinion of him going down the "elitist" highway was spot on.
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby The Schwab » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:09 am

classB4ever wrote:
scruffy wrote:I have very good feelings about private schools. In general kids receive a good well rounded education and (1)test higher, (2)are better prepared for college, (3)tend to be involved in more curricular activities and (4)God isn't forbidden from their lives if they choose. (5)The cost per pupil for the education is also much lower then our state funded schools so the value is exceptional as they tend to be much leaner and meaner. As far as sports go I don't know of any that openly recruit athletes and (6)it's no different then the public schools open enrollment that North Dakota offers. They're number one priority is education and they're not in the business to just win a district or regional championship in sports.


Alright, here are my responses to these statements.

1. Are we talking individual students (ex. number 1 from private will score higher than number 1 from public?) or are you saying overall, if it is the first one that is ridiculous, if it is the second one think about this point, Private schools do not have to accept everyone that applies correct? Public schools have to accept all who live in the district.
2. Absolutely ridiculous statement plain and simple.
3. More ridiculous than statement 2, I teach in a small school that has strong participation in sports, FFA, FBLA, Music Programs(many different events/concerts), Science olympiad etc...
4. In a public setting that is run by the state there are rules we have to follow. This could open up a whole new can of worms on here that I really don't want too.
5. I would really like to see some numbers on this one, donations that come in for private schools are quite large right?
6. There have been a few different examples of this over the past few years, we all know where they are taking place and the real reasons why, again a can of worms that doesn't need to be brought up.

Just my opinion
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby NDplayin » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:04 pm

classB4ever wrote:NDPlayin, it's good to see you came to scruffy's defense once again. I find it humorous how you always seem to give scruffy a free pass with his ridiculous statements. How did you put it, "defended his position with good intentions". However, if anybody dare call him out, they are "over-reacting to Scruffy's enthusiasm". Wow.


ClassB4ever,

The next time you want to quote me, I kindly ask you to fully quote me as it pertains to your point. You claim that I rush to Scruffy's defense, yet you failed to continue the quote to where I pointed out that Scruffy was hasty in his reply and had poor word choice. I don't know about you, but the part you conveniently left out doesn't sound much like rushing to anyone's defense to me, nor does it sound like a free pass. I don't fault Scruffy for defending his parochial school views anymore than I fault you for defending your public school view; deal with that.

You and Scruffy feel free to continue to be irrational and emotional about this topic and see how far it gets you. I have no intentions of being involved in the emotional side of this debate. You may also feel free to attack any of my positions you'd like; however, quote me out of context again, and I just might get emotional about your seemingly selective reading comprehension skills.
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby classB4ever » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:32 pm

NDplayin wrote:
classB4ever wrote:NDPlayin, it's good to see you came to scruffy's defense once again. I find it humorous how you always seem to give scruffy a free pass with his ridiculous statements. How did you put it, "defended his position with good intentions". However, if anybody dare call him out, they are "over-reacting to Scruffy's enthusiasm". Wow.


ClassB4ever,

The next time you want to quote me, I kindly ask you to fully quote me as it pertains to your point. You claim that I rush to Scruffy's defense, yet you failed to continue the quote to where I pointed out that Scruffy was hasty in his reply and had poor word choice. I don't know about you, but the part you conveniently left out doesn't sound much like rushing to anyone's defense to me, nor does it sound like a free pass. I don't fault Scruffy for defending his parochial school views anymore than I fault you for defending your public school view; deal with that.

You and Scruffy feel free to continue to be irrational and emotional about this topic and see how far it gets you. I have no intentions of being involved in the emotional side of this debate. You may also feel free to attack any of my positions you'd like; however, quote me out of context again, and I just might get emotional about your seemingly selective reading comprehension skills.


First of all, if you feel that I quoted you out of context, then I apologize. I personally do not believe that it changed the meaning of your statement.
I feel it very odd that any time the word recruiting and private schools come up, all heck breaks loose. However, in this instance a poster blatantly calls out the entire public school system and it is just ho-hum. I asked a pertinent question and don't think it was out of line. Sometimes people need to be held accountable for their statements. Wouldn't you consider that fair?
I intentionally did not go down certain paths with my questions or statements. You on the other hand deemed it necessary to do so. You appointed yourself judge and jury trying to make sure it didn't get out of hand but only opened it up to more of a debate. In my humble opinion, there is only one person that is irrational and emotional in this discussion. I think your last paragraph answers that.
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:36 pm

All right guys...lets get back to the topic and stop going at each other over the 'he said, she said' stuff. If it continues down this road...this topic will end up locked.
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby NDplayin » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:56 pm

My apologies, Run. I guess misleading quotes has always been a hot-button of mine.
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby Bisonguy06 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:17 pm

Just a quick note here - the ACT exam measures college preparedness in English, Math, Science, ect.

If a parochial school could demonstrate higher ACT test scores than state averages, it could also claim better college preparedness, at least by one measure.

In other words, Scruffy could make a case for both #1 and #2 on his list if his parochial school performs well on the ACT. These are not ridiculous claims.
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby The Schwab » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:51 pm

Bisonguy06 wrote:Just a quick note here - the ACT exam measures college preparedness in English, Math, Science, ect.

If a parochial school could demonstrate higher ACT test scores than state averages, it could also claim better college preparedness, at least by one measure.

In other words, Scruffy could make a case for both #1 and #2 on his list if his parochial school performs well on the ACT. These are not ridiculous claims.


The ACT test score is not the only factor of being prepared for college, yes it is a decent measure of the skills in Math/English/Science, but there are other factors that could lead to being better prepared for college, if we are going to talk about the average scores. The private schools will be higher than than public schools for reasons I listed in my previous post. There are positive and negative aspects of both institutions. Please do not give me the "better education" crap one way or the other.
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby rafspit » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:14 pm

First off this whole discussion goes no where and I believe it was designed that way from the Name of the Topic: Feelings on Parochial Schools? What, everyone will come on and say, We Love them! There Great!

It was designed to go negative from the get go.

Lets get some terminology correct from the start:
A Private school is just that Private you have to be eligible, apply and be acccepted and they cost a ton
8Kto 25K a year and there are no Private schools in North Dakota other then pre-school. Saying that, try to get into one of those pre-schools when your child is 4-5, you better have had him/her signed up at birth.

Parochial School are church sponsored schools, that is it. Whether they are sponsored by Lutherans
Catholics, Moslem or a Christian church is the definition.
They are in the bigger cities in NoDak because it takes 3 or 4 churches to help finance the cost of that educational facility. Then each parent has to pay 4K or more plus fees per student to attend.
We also have to pay our local school taxes annually on top of that and there is no tax voucher to offset that expense. We as parents choose to do this. It may or may not but We think it gives them an advantage in life and are willing to pay for it.

As far as a better education, some use it some don't, but being in a bigger city gives them access to advantages, jobs, shopping, entertainment, technology, museums, also bunches of gyms open all year, Athletic traing facilities, college players and student coaches. That is why people move to cities.

Recruiting yes we start recruiting inside the churches in the elementary grades, how do I know they don't recruit HS athletes, because if someone is coming in just to play FB or BB, myself and the rest of the parents would raise a ruckus when they raise the tuition next year. They operate on very little money and there is no extra's for one or two kids that can drop a 3 pointer, especially when it will be forgotten about in a year.

As a reminder of how I started this thread, Just for fun lets open a thread called

Feelings on Goverment Run-Union Sponsored Indoctrination Centers
That should be a big hit in some of the more questionable countries of the world.
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby classB4ever » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:40 pm

This will be my last post on this subject. This entire debate reminds me of what I feel is wrong in today's society, but I may be completely delusional.
In the old days, if a child did something wrong in school, the child got just punishment from the teacher/principal. Nothing was said about this. It was expected. The worst thing that could happen to the child is if the parents also found out, because the punishment would be twice as bad. The child was held accountable for their action. They had to admit to the mistake, learn from it and move on. Chances are it wouldn't happen again. In today's world, it seems adult teachers are not believed when it comes to a child making a mistake. The parent will automatically take the side of their child. My child can do no wrong, they are 14 years old. The teacher's hands are tied. These children learn not to be held accountable and find out the hard way later on. This of course is not always the case and there are exceptions to every rule.
In this instance, my personal opinion is that a poster defended his stance with some overzealous statements. No matter how many examples or how much data, or how many people come to the defense of these statements there is one that I know cannot be proved, because I know one child in the public school system that has God in their life. Whether or not they can practice this faith in the public school system makes no difference.
The only thing I was looking for was this poster to come on and admit they may have went a little over the top. However, it seems that it is much easier to make excuses and come up with possible theories then to simply say, I may have made a mistake.
NDplayin, I again apologize if I misquoted you.
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby Indy5 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:58 pm

Ok, yes children in the public schools can have God in their life, what some people have tried to point out is that it is much easier when your in a religious environment all day. This also leads to the average kid having more of a relationship with God than the average kid at a public school. This is just my opinion but does this not seem reasonable that the kid exposed more would be more likely to have God in their life more?

My feelings on them are positive. I think it is nice that they can offer an environment with smaller classes while still having the advantages of being in a bigger city. I personal am glad I attended one, and will most likely send my kids to one. I think it's a better alternative than the large public schools (talking about class A schools) that are halfways a circus with that many kids.

Also, Schwab, I would say that some private schools are run cheaper than public schools. On average, it costs $7,000 to send a kid to public school. There are private schools that are more than that, and there are some that are less than that. Do donations get big? Maybe. I know Shanley gets a lot of money from donors. That is also why the school looks the way it does. People can donate to public schools too, no? So I don't really think that's a fair argument to use.
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Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby classB4ever » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:17 pm

I apologize for posting again, but wanted to clear the air on one issue. At no point was I bashing on parochial or private schools. To lay a little ground work, I have immediate family and friends who are attending and/or have graduated from both parochial schools and private christian colleges. Being from the Fargo area, some of my closest friends attended Oak Grove High School and the Cardinal Muench Seminary.
On the contrary, my original post was attempting to stop a poster from going down a road that was only going to drive a larger gap in the mindset between public and parochial/private thinking. For those of you who have brought up points for the parochial school system, I would certainly expect it. There is no question that there are some great benefits and in my mind certainly does not need to be defended.
In my opinion, the original post was not defending that system, but rather taking a very clear shot at another system. And in this instance, clearly states we are "elite". I guess my point is this, if a person believes they are better in anything and can prove it, then it doesn't need to be flaunted. If they do feel it is necessary, it only proves that they are not the best at one thing. Humility.
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