North Dakota Preps

BISONFAN18 wrote:I am over the private school discussion. 3 classes will make basketball better, no doubt about it. More importantly, a topic never discussed is open enrollment. End it. This going to school in a district where you don't live because of sports is the biggest travesty to ND basketball. I know private schools don't have a district and the way to handle that advantage is that they automatically play up a division.

Agreed. Thompson has great programs. Cannot take anything away from their success in past years. However, having 90+ open enrollment, even though they have about the same opting out is a tremendous advantage. And if for one second anybody thinks it's for any other reason than sports, will agree to disagree.

classB4ever wrote:Preface: I do not agree with yelling at or calling out high school kids while playing sports. Adults should know better. Team cheering sections will get carried away at times during a game but school officials generally do a good job of tamping it down.

A lot of talk on another thread concerning how the crowd cheered against Shiloh. Isn't that what Class B is all about? David vs. Goliath? Epping vs. Hillsboro? Isn't that how class b is set up now? People are surprised that a crowd turned on a private school in a state championship game? Really? Shiloh Christian has been to the state tourney 11 times in 17 years. This is class b basketball isn't it? Calling Shiloh the "Hillsboro" is about right. Thompson is far from an Epping, but first trip to state so what the heck. They will be back many times.

Certainly feel bad if the players of Shiloh were taunted, etc. Cheering against the team is one thing but the players don't deserve to be singled out. However, the Class B tournament is all about Hillsboro vs. Epping according to NDHSAA. David vs. Goliath. So when it plays out, kind of hard to rip the fans for playing into what it's sold as.

Completely agree! 100% Thank You

Just to let you know Shiloh fans were taunting Richland kids during warm ups.

Bisonguy06 wrote:We don’t have a statewide competitive problem in class B. The problem is confined to a couple of our regions, and is mostly on the boys’ side of the field.

Tell me where I’m wrong.

Agreed, except I would argue it's more than a couple of regions.

Bisonguy06 wrote:The ‘solution’ that has not been tried is to draw up an enrollment-based three class proposal with a small number of teams in the middle class, to work with the private schools to encourage opting up into that middle class, and to applaud those that do.

Current class A would remain intact and should support this.
Current class B would retain the overwhelming majority of schools and would support.
I believe the middle class would have majority support, with a small # of dissenters.

The strategy of making the private schools public enemy #1, while enrollment trends are not in their favor, and drawing them into an ever larger middle class, has failed to draw majority support for twenty years and counting. The private schools are not universally opposed to three classes, and even if they were, they are too small in number to block a good plan from passing. It’s the state’s approach toward the private schools that is getting in the way of the middle class that most would like to see.

Tell me where I’m wrong.

Good points. How many teams in your opinion would make up a viable middle class? IMO, has to be more than 24. Have used 32 in some up thread discussions, but that number drags in some schools who probably should remain in the lower class. 28 teams, 7 per 4 regions would be about right?

I think somewhere around 32 is a good number. I think the big 4 privates opt up, if Thompson is still in the lowest class I could see them moving up too. I'm sure there would be other too.

I think a BR/SC final would have helped push a 3 class proposal, although I feel like I was the only one cheering for it. Am I wrong?

BISONFAN18 wrote:I am over the private school discussion. 3 classes will make basketball better, no doubt about it. More importantly, a topic never discussed is open enrollment. End it. This going to school in a district where you don't live because of sports is the biggest travesty to ND basketball. I know private schools don't have a district and the way to handle that advantage is that they automatically play up a division.

All great points. The open enrollment thing is becoming a joke. If a school district does not have a defined boundary then it should be in the upper division. (or middle division if we would go to a 3 class system) I firmly believe it will never happen in ND. The NDSHAA does not want to do anything to slow down the cash flow from the State B Boy's Tournament and they are scared of killing the "golden goose" by going to a 3 class system. The only way it changes is if people stop attending the Class B or TV ratings fall drastically and neither of those will happen because we love the B.

maddog1971 asked for this information on boy's thread. Will put it here.

For the past 24 years (1996 - 2019):

Big going to state = 53 (average 15 schools - enrollment 170+)
Private going to state = 45 ( 6 schools)
Small going to state = 94 (average 107 schools)

Total = 192 state entrants

Using an average over 24 year period
Region 1 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 3 18.75%
Private = 1 6.25%
Small = 12 75.00%

Region 1 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 9 37.50%
Private = 7 29.17%
Small = 8 33.33%

Region 2 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 14 87.50%

Region 2 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 14 58.33%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 10 41.67%

Region 3 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 1 6.25%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 15 93.75%

Region 3 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 4 16.67%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 20 83.33%
Note: From 1999 - 2014 there were no bigs.

Region 4 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 14 87.50%

Region 4 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 7 29.17%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 17 70.83%

Region 5 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 1 6.25%
Private = 1 6.25%
Small = 14 87.50%

Region 5 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 1 4.17%
Private = 13 54.17%
Small = 10 41.67%

Region 6 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 2 12.50%
Small = 12 75.00%

Region 6 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 4 16.67%
Private = 11 45.83%
Small = 9 37.50%

Region 7 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 1 6.25%
Small = 13 81.25%

Region 7 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 8 33.33%
Private = 12 50.00%
Small = 4 16.67%

Region 8 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 1 6.25%
Small = 13 81.25%

Region 8 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 6 25.00%
Private = 2 8.33%
Small = 16 66.67%

classB4ever wrote:maddog1971 asked for this information on boy's thread. Will put it here.

For the past 24 years (1996 - 2019):

Big going to state = 53 (average 15 schools - enrollment 170+)
Private going to state = 45 ( 6 schools)
Small going to state = 94 (average 107 schools)

Total = 192 state entrants

Using an average over 24 year period
Region 1 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 3 18.75%
Private = 1 6.25%
Small = 12 75.00%

Region 1 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 9 37.50%
Private = 7 29.17%
Small = 8 33.33%

Region 2 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 14 87.50%

Region 2 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 14 58.33%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 10 41.67%

Region 3 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 1 6.25%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 15 93.75%

Region 3 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 4 16.67%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 20 83.33%
Note: From 1999 - 2014 there were no bigs.

Region 4 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 14 87.50%

Region 4 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 7 29.17%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 17 70.83%

Region 5 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 1 6.25%
Private = 1 6.25%
Small = 14 87.50%

Region 5 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 1 4.17%
Private = 13 54.17%
Small = 10 41.67%

Region 6 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 2 12.50%
Small = 12 75.00%

Region 6 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 4 16.67%
Private = 11 45.83%
Small = 9 37.50%

Region 7 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 1 6.25%
Small = 13 81.25%

Region 7 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 8 33.33%
Private = 12 50.00%
Small = 4 16.67%

Region 8 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 1 6.25%
Small = 13 81.25%

Region 8 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 6 25.00%
Private = 2 8.33%
Small = 16 66.67%

I like quantitative arguments...however every argument is based on Boys Basketball only...can you run this for girls basketball (no rush)

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
I like quantitative arguments...however every argument is based on Boys Basketball only...can you run this for girls basketball (no rush)

Will take you up on the "no rush" suggestion. Wasn't going to jump back into the 3 class debate, figured we would let it die its forced, inevitable demise. However, don't mind giving information for those who want to discuss it on this thread. If someone else wants to do the girl's side, have at it. Girl's bb is beginning to mimic boys so guessing somebody might just want to do that. Very eye opening project.

Class B Girl's Region Champs 1996-2019

Working on Girl's BB numbers. Need some help. Below is a list of schools from 1996 - 2001 (switched from fall to winter in 2002). Need some help with what regions they were in during this period of time. Also, do not have enrollment figures for all of them at this time. If you see any mistakes of regions (guessed on a number of regions) or happen to know the enrollment of any of these schools, please note it. *Note - B = 170+, S < 170, P - Private/Parochial.

Year - Team - Region - Size (B, S, P)

1996 Kindred 1 B
1997 Oakes 1
1998 Lisbon 1
1999 Oak Grove 1 P
2000 Kindred 1 B
2001 Kindred 1 B


1996 Minto 2 S
1997 Central Valley 2 S
1998 MPCG 2 B
1999 Hatton 2 S
2000 Larimore 2 B
2001 MPCG 2 B

1996 Bottineau 3 B
1997 Midkota 3 S
1998 Langdon 3 B
1999 Langdon 3 B
2000 Linton 3 S
2001 Linton 3 S

1996 Pingree-Buchanan-Kensal 4 S
1997 Starkweather-Munich 4 S
1998 Gackle Streeter 4 S
1999 Gackle Streeter 4 S
2000 Starkweather-Munich 4 S
2001 Harvey 4

1996 Washburn 5
1997 Linton 5
1998 Washburn 5
1999 Garrison 5
2000 Washburn 5
2001 Washburn 5

1996 Lehr-Wishek 6 S
1997 Hazen 6 B
1998 Velva 6
1999 Bottineau 6 B
2000 Mohall 6 S
2001 Mohall 6 S

1996 Richardton-Taylor 7
1997 Richardton-Taylor 7
1998 South Heart 7
1999 Hazen 7 B
2000 Dickinson Trinity 7 P
2001 Bowman 7

1996 Watford City 8 B
1997 Stanley 8 B
1998 Watford City 8 B
1999 Trenton 8 S
2000 Trenton 8 S
2001 Watford City 8 B

I don’t really get this whole Thompson thing, it really confuses me. Can someone please tell me one person on that team that was a “grand forks reject” or is from grand forks. Can someone please name one person

BasketballKid wrote:I don’t really get this whole Thompson thing, it really confuses me. Can someone please tell me one person on that team that was a “grand forks reject” or is from grand forks. Can someone please name one person

OMG stop I am so sick of social media from the championship game. Why don't you ask the person who tweeted it, instead of whining on here.

BasketballKid wrote:I don’t really get this whole Thompson thing, it really confuses me. Can someone please tell me one person on that team that was a “grand forks reject” or is from grand forks. Can someone please name one person

Stopped by the other day. The staff couldn't, going back 10 years at least.

heimer wrote:

BasketballKid wrote:I don’t really get this whole Thompson thing, it really confuses me. Can someone please tell me one person on that team that was a “grand forks reject” or is from grand forks. Can someone please name one person

Stopped by the other day. The staff couldn't, going back 10 years at least.

Yup, stopped by and talked to the ENTIRE staff at THS. Just like you saw the coaches rankings at the girls B. The investigative research you do for preps is truly remarkable.

packers21 wrote:

heimer wrote:

BasketballKid wrote:I don’t really get this whole Thompson thing, it really confuses me. Can someone please tell me one person on that team that was a “grand forks reject” or is from grand forks. Can someone please name one person

Stopped by the other day. The staff couldn't, going back 10 years at least.

Yup, stopped by and talked to the ENTIRE staff at THS. Just like you saw the coaches rankings at the girls B. The investigative research you do for preps is truly remarkable.

Well, I'd say talking to the super and the AD would be two good staffers to consult, seeing as they said they "looked back over the names".

But keep trolling the fine people in Thompson. Not sure which of the other Region 2 towns you're from, but it must be the one with the most spite in the water.

heimer wrote:

packers21 wrote:

heimer wrote:

BasketballKid wrote:I don’t really get this whole Thompson thing, it really confuses me. Can someone please tell me one person on that team that was a “grand forks reject” or is from grand forks. Can someone please name one person

Stopped by the other day. The staff couldn't, going back 10 years at least.

Yup, stopped by and talked to the ENTIRE staff at THS. Just like you saw the coaches rankings at the girls B. The investigative research you do for preps is truly remarkable.

Well, I'd say talking to the super and the AD would be two good staffers to consult, seeing as they said they "looked back over the names".

But keep trolling the fine people in Thompson. Not sure which of the other Region 2 towns you're from, but it must be the one with the most spite in the water.

I haven't trolled a single person from Thompson, the only person I troll is you. You are by biggest egotistical, narcissist I have ever come across in my life. Anytime someone has a different opinion on something or actually proves you wrong YOU CANNOT HANDLE IT! All you do pick and probe people or organizations that do not agree with you, write ridiculous fact baseless articles/posts and every once in awhile write someone funny or entertaining on here.

You know what. I'm sorry.

I will be better.

Let me start with this post:

Everything about Class B is awesome, and Minot is awesome, and the NDHSAA is awesome, and they never make mistakes, and we don't need any changes ever, and Class A not cool, and only Class B has anything worth watching, or knowing anything about, and all big cities struggle except Bismarck and Minot, and only when B is in town, and Grand Forks shouldn't get any tournaments, and the regionals should all be in small towns because pop is too expensive, and people from the west shouldnt have to drive anywhere and long live Class B.

That better?

Because thats the only way to post anything of substance with the lost in the 50's podunk crowd.

There are a few people in here that are pretty cool. Even met one at state B. But the worst thing this site did was separate into forums, because this is now like MSNBC or FoxNews. You only come to get what you want to hear.

You didn't even call me the worst I've been called today.

Keep sippin the Kool-Aid.

I firmly believe that we need a 3 class system, sooner rather than later. If we don't get one put in place the gap between the have's and the have not's is only going to grow.

Here are the reasons why I don't think a 3-class system will happen:

1. People will only vote for it if it benefits their school, if it doesn't they will vote no.
2. We can't have a civilized conversation about the idea anymore.


IMO those against a 3-class system fall into one (or more) of these groups:

A. Their school/who they cheer for is a big class B school
B. Their school/who they cheer for is a school without borders
C. They're of the belief that it should have happened around the time when we had 24 districts.
D. They are from a region that doesn't have a large B school or a dominant private school

As a proponent of the 3 class system I will do my best to give my reasons why we should have one by addressing those who fall into each category.

A and B will be the two hardest groups to convince IMO. Currently most of your schools experience a lot of success. I will be the first to admit that a major factor of that success comes from having successful coaches who put the time in to make their program great. I would like you to know that in my version of the plan, you would be free to schedule whoever you want. There would be no requirement that you play only schools in your class and you can still play close to your current schedule if you so choose. Your tournaments would be so entertaining, every game would be a good one. Currently in our system there seem to be a lot of blowouts in the first round of regionals (not in every region). Not saying it would never happen, but it'd improve the quality of almost every game.

Group C- it should have happened then, IMO it would have stopped a lot of co-ops from happening. I'm sorry it didn't, but the old saying "better late than never" applies here.

Group D- I understand the system in your area works just fine, in my plan your area would have most of the same schools you currently have (add a few like size/make up schools) and play your quadrant tournament and send 2 teams from your area to the state tournament! It's a win, win!

Here's my idea for the 3 class system.

Class AA- 18 schools (current class A minus Jamestown, Watford, Valley City and Devils Lake) Play current set up for tournaments, basically left unchanged. Those 4 schools I listed would have a chance to opt up, just using them for the sake of putting a plan together.

Class A- Once you have your AA schools set it would include the next 32 schools, I would include all current class B schools without borders in this group. After you have those 6 schools it would be the next 26 largest schools using grades 7-11 enrollment. Scheduling and Tournament schedule will be outlined below

Class B- The rest

Class A and B would both follow the same system (class A would only play the elite 8 through championship in each quadrant, could do it in one weekend if they choose). It would be a lot like South Dakotas set up. We would divide each class into 4 quadrants for tournaments. Seeding for those tournaments would go off of a power points system that would give a point value for a victory or loss against a team based on their winning percentage (4 tiers). You would gain bonus points for playing a school 1 or 2 divisions higher than you, no negative points for playing a smaller school. All tournament games would be played on a neutral floor (with the exception of having a play in game to determine the final 16 in each quadrant, those would be played on the better seeds floor ex. 14 would host 18). Once we get to the final 16 we would treat it similar to the NCAA set up. 2 locations in each quadrant would follow the sweet 16/elite 8 set up except no days in between. Teams would play Friday and Saturday. Next weekend would be the final four of the quadrant. The two teams playing in the quadrant title would both qualify for state, but we would play the championship game. Once we get the final 8 (2 from each quadrant) we would seed the state tournament 1-8 based on power points. In this system we would play tournament over 2 weekends (girls one weekend, boys the next). B, A, AA would be in different sites on the same weekend. Internet live stream would be available for all games and we would have NBC, ABC and CBS or PBS rotate which tournament they cover based on the year. That way every tournament would be on TV as well as live stream. Just my two cents.

I'm guessing Whap would be included in the new A instead of Jamestown?

ndlionsfan wrote:I'm guessing Whap would be included in the new A instead of Jamestown?

Sure we could do that, I picked two from East and West to help balance it, but we could put Wahp in class A and move Jamestown into the Eastern AA. That would solve a whole different current issue.

classB4ever wrote:maddog1971 asked for this information on boy's thread. Will put it here.

For the past 24 years (1996 - 2019):

Big going to state = 53 (average 15 schools - enrollment 170+)
Private going to state = 45 ( 6 schools)
Small going to state = 94 (average 107 schools)

Total = 192 state entrants

Using an average over 24 year period
Region 1 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 3 18.75%
Private = 1 6.25%
Small = 12 75.00%

Region 1 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 9 37.50%
Private = 7 29.17%
Small = 8 33.33%

Region 2 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 14 87.50%

Region 2 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 14 58.33%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 10 41.67%

Region 3 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 1 6.25%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 15 93.75%

Region 3 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 4 16.67%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 20 83.33%
Note: From 1999 - 2014 there were no bigs.

Region 4 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 14 87.50%

Region 4 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 7 29.17%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 17 70.83%

Region 5 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 1 6.25%
Private = 1 6.25%
Small = 14 87.50%

Region 5 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 1 4.17%
Private = 13 54.17%
Small = 10 41.67%

Region 6 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 2 12.50%
Small = 12 75.00%

Region 6 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 4 16.67%
Private = 11 45.83%
Small = 9 37.50%

Region 7 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 1 6.25%
Small = 13 81.25%

Region 7 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 8 33.33%
Private = 12 50.00%
Small = 4 16.67%

Region 8 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 1 6.25%
Small = 13 81.25%

Region 8 Champs Over 24 Years
Big Schools = 6 25.00%
Private = 2 8.33%
Small = 16 66.67%

Wow that took some work. Thanks for the numbers. I really don't see by the numbers to say the Big Schools have a clear advantage in comparison to the Privates. The Privates... that is just crazy.

Also I just want the two class system. I love the B. You take out the bigger class B schools out of the mix and the tournament would suffer. I actually would not mind seeing a 4 class system and the winner of each class meet in a final 4 for the State Champion..... that I would like.

maddog1971 wrote:Also I just want the two class system. I love the B. You take out the bigger class B schools out of the mix and the tournament would suffer. I actually would not mind seeing a 4 class system and the winner of each class meet in a final 4 for the State Champion..... that I would like.

It's disrespectful to the big schools to think this would be a competitive tournament.

Flip wrote:

maddog1971 wrote:Also I just want the two class system. I love the B. You take out the bigger class B schools out of the mix and the tournament would suffer. I actually would not mind seeing a 4 class system and the winner of each class meet in a final 4 for the State Champion..... that I would like.

It's disrespectful to the big schools to think this would be a competitive tournament.

4 classes of what...25-30 teams?? Feels watered down IMO...it’s either 2 classes or 3 classes (just has to be the right system).