3 class system

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Re: 3 class system

Postby The Schwab » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:20 am

balla45 wrote:
The Schwab wrote:The 3 class system talk is about 20 years too late, it should have happened before all the co-ops started happening. I ask you though, why did all these co-ops happen? I know a lot of schools co-oped for the chance to just be able to compete with the larger schools in their districts/regions. Right now we have a broken system. I understand that people from regions 2, 4 and 8 might not see the system as broken and that's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. My thoughts on how to better fix the system rather then a traditional 3 class system (because the NDHSAA has made it clear that no matter what it's members want, this will NEVER happen) is to lower the cutoff number to class A. Have the top class of 20 teams be in high A, Low A be the next 20 teams and have two regions for each class. Top four from each region in High and Low "A" qualify for the state tournament, use a QRF formula (this way they could schedule bigger class B schools and wouldn't kill rivalries or make unrealistic travel) to seed them 1-16 (have 2 games each at 4 neutral site locations (GF, Fargo, Minot, Bismarck)) winner of those 8 qualifying games qualifies for the state Class A tournament. For this to work all schools with non-defined borders couldn't play in class B. This way you would have a chance for great matchups, the NDHSAA would love it because they'd make more money and it would bring back a small town feel to class B basketball. Just my two cents, take it for what it's worth.


I still hate this idea. Teams would consistently be at the A tournament that are not good enough to be there creating some gross basketball.


In theory the current class A state tournament could be the same as it is now if not better because you could get the 8 true best teams in the state at the "AA" tournament
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Re: 3 class system

Postby classB4ever » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:16 pm

The Schwab wrote:The 3 class system talk is about 20 years too late, it should have happened before all the co-ops started happening. I ask you though, why did all these co-ops happen? I know a lot of schools co-oped for the chance to just be able to compete with the larger schools in their districts/regions. Right now we have a broken system. I understand that people from regions 2, 4 and 8 might not see the system as broken and that's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. My thoughts on how to better fix the system rather then a traditional 3 class system (because the NDHSAA has made it clear that no matter what it's members want, this will NEVER happen) is to lower the cutoff number to class A. Have the top class of 20 teams be in high A, Low A be the next 20 teams and have two regions for each class. Top four from each region in High and Low "A" qualify for the state tournament, use a QRF formula (this way they could schedule bigger class B schools and wouldn't kill rivalries or make unrealistic travel) to seed them 1-16 (have 2 games each at 4 neutral site locations (GF, Fargo, Minot, Bismarck)) winner of those 8 qualifying games qualifies for the state Class A tournament. For this to work all schools with non-defined borders couldn't play in class B. This way you would have a chance for great matchups, the NDHSAA would love it because they'd make more money and it would bring back a small town feel to class B basketball. Just my two cents, take it for what it's worth.


I like the way this is set up but still think it is moving the problem from bottom to top. What I can't figure out is why this couldn't be done on the bottom side. Let's say we have AA, A and B. Raise the enrollment cutoff from 325 to whatever it takes to get rid of some of these towns bouncing back and forth. Let's just say 400. Move bottom cutoff to say 150 or 175. Leave "AA" alone, they fixed their problems from the past with the shot clock. Their basketball tournament this year was incredible. Very talented teams playing a high level of basketball.

1. 4 regional tournaments for "A" and "B" where like teams are playing like teams.
2. Each regional tournament sends 1 team. 4 from "A" and 4 from "B" to 8 team state tournament.
3. Use a reasonable multiplier for parochial schools. Only to move between A and B. Opting up is always allowed.
4. During regular season, there should be no problem filling up your schedule between A and B teams. Same as now so shouldn't be any travel issues.

I think this would be a very fair sampling of teams and create a better state tourney. There's usually about 50% small teams representing the B and 50% large/parochial representing the B. The problem is that some of the better small teams get cancelled out year in and year out by powerhouses in their said region. This simply allows the best of each to attend. 2 cents.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby The Schwab » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:10 pm

classB4ever wrote:
The Schwab wrote:The 3 class system talk is about 20 years too late, it should have happened before all the co-ops started happening. I ask you though, why did all these co-ops happen? I know a lot of schools co-oped for the chance to just be able to compete with the larger schools in their districts/regions. Right now we have a broken system. I understand that people from regions 2, 4 and 8 might not see the system as broken and that's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. My thoughts on how to better fix the system rather then a traditional 3 class system (because the NDHSAA has made it clear that no matter what it's members want, this will NEVER happen) is to lower the cutoff number to class A. Have the top class of 20 teams be in high A, Low A be the next 20 teams and have two regions for each class. Top four from each region in High and Low "A" qualify for the state tournament, use a QRF formula (this way they could schedule bigger class B schools and wouldn't kill rivalries or make unrealistic travel) to seed them 1-16 (have 2 games each at 4 neutral site locations (GF, Fargo, Minot, Bismarck)) winner of those 8 qualifying games qualifies for the state Class A tournament. For this to work all schools with non-defined borders couldn't play in class B. This way you would have a chance for great matchups, the NDHSAA would love it because they'd make more money and it would bring back a small town feel to class B basketball. Just my two cents, take it for what it's worth.


I like the way this is set up but still think it is moving the problem from bottom to top. What I can't figure out is why this couldn't be done on the bottom side. Let's say we have AA, A and B. Raise the enrollment cutoff from 325 to whatever it takes to get rid of some of these towns bouncing back and forth. Let's just say 400. Move bottom cutoff to say 150 or 175. Leave "AA" alone, they fixed their problems from the past with the shot clock. Their basketball tournament this year was incredible. Very talented teams playing a high level of basketball.

1. 4 regional tournaments for "A" and "B" where like teams are playing like teams.
2. Each regional tournament sends 1 team. 4 from "A" and 4 from "B" to 8 team state tournament.
3. Use a reasonable multiplier for parochial schools. Only to move between A and B. Opting up is always allowed.
4. During regular season, there should be no problem filling up your schedule between A and B teams. Same as now so shouldn't be any travel issues.

I think this would be a very fair sampling of teams and create a better state tourney. There's usually about 50% small teams representing the B and 50% large/parochial representing the B. The problem is that some of the better small teams get cancelled out year in and year out by powerhouses in their said region. This simply allows the best of each to attend. 2 cents.


Not a bad idea, NDHSAA probably would approve this, as long as you have all schools without defined district lines in the "A" class I'd be in favor of it.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby winner-within » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:30 pm

I heard last night on the news Grand Rapids MN is going down to 1A...... enrollment cut off is 201...they have 201

point being 150 would make sense in ND if MN is 201 with all their towns


side note: Minneapolis north is moving up to 2A they just won State again at 1A all games by 30 plus
only 2 losses this season were one to a 3A team and 1 to a 4A team..............
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Re: 3 class system

Postby classB4ever » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:37 pm

The Schwab wrote:
Not a bad idea, NDHSAA probably would approve this, as long as you have all schools without defined district lines in the "A" class I'd be in favor of it.


Agree with bold above. This system would make regionals, "Super" Regionals.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby Flip » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:11 pm

winner-within wrote:I heard last night on the news Grand Rapids MN is going down to 1A...... enrollment cut off is 201...they have 201

point being 150 would make sense in ND if MN is 201 with all their towns


side note: Minneapolis north is moving up to 2A they just won State again at 1A all games by 30 plus
only 2 losses this season were one to a 3A team and 1 to a 4A team..............

Minneapolis North is weird. The won AAAA state titles back in the 90s. Khalid El Amin used to play for them. He won a national title at UConn as was drafted by the Bulls. I heard their coach wanted to move up to AAA. No one at A has been able to compete with them the last 2-3 years.

Any of the enrollment numbers you see for MN have some F&R meals calculation in them too.

classB4ever, I'm more for 3 classes, but I think your plan is better than having a the middle class play the top class in the state tournament. btw, I think these mixed class proposals have no chance of passing. Anyone know of a state that has something like that?
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Re: 3 class system

Postby classB4ever » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:37 pm

Flip wrote:
classB4ever, I'm more for 3 classes, but I think your plan is better than having a the middle class play the top class in the state tournament. btw, I think these mixed class proposals have no chance of passing. Anyone know of a state that has something like that?


Not sure about your question as haven't had a chance to research. You are also probably correct in the mixed classes not passing as it is a hybrid system. However, it seems hybrid seeds have done wonders for farming in the past 30 years? Perhaps combining two average products could produce something that is much stronger, gives higher yields and is much more resistant against disease.
Last edited by classB4ever on Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby Latshaw » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:55 am

winner-wiethin wrote:I heard last night on the https://www.mixedink.com/prosolution-pl ... my-results the prosolution plus news Grand Rapids MN is going down to 1A...... enrollment cut off is 201...they have 201

point being 150 would make sense in ND if MN is 201 with all their towns


I think it's better than the old system.
Last edited by Latshaw on Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby go maji » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:58 pm

hawkeye99 wrote:Is North Dakota the last State to have a 2 class system? Most States have several basketball classes to align enrollment numbers into a similar range. Iowa has 5 classes for Girl's basketball and 4 for Boy's basketball, great games almost every night, classifications are evaluated/changed every 2 years. Teams form conferences somewhat geographically without regard to class ranking to simplify travel. Line up in regions (8 regions with 8 teams in most classes, the highest class is limited to the largest 48 schools) for post season. Seems like ND could do something along the lines of 16 largest enrollments in one class, the next 64 in another class, the remainder in the smallest class.


This is what I found.

DELAWARE 1
HAWAII 2
Kentucky 1
Rhode island 1
*I might've missed 1, but hope I didn't.

Most states have around 4 clases
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Re: 3 class system

Postby Flip » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:35 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:MY STATE-WIDE TOP 10
1. Beulah
2. Shiloh Christian
3. Stanley
4. Oak Grove
5. Bishop Ryan
6. Carrington
7. Thompson
8. Grafton
9. St. John
10. Four Winds-Minnewaukan


Thought I would throw this in here. In Run's top 10 at least 7 of these schools would be in the middle class and Thompson/Carrington would be some of the bigger small schools.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby tmd33643 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:32 am

The Schwab wrote:Right now we have a broken system. I understand that people from regions 2, 4 and 8 might not see the system as broken and that's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion.


Schwab, I am a coach in region 8 and I completely think the system is broke. There are multiple teams that send their JV to play other teams in region 8 because of the differences in ability. Obviously Watford City would be one of teams that do this in the region as they are much larger. Watford will go going class A next year, which should help the rest of the region 8 in future years. Despite that, I still think the differences between teams are drastic enough that the 2 class system is clearly not working.

I feel like the class b is already broken. If it wasn't broken, there would be no such thing as the mercy rule. If you look at the state tournaments, the majority of the teams that make it are the big schools and private schools. And I also hate when I hear people say, "Just put the private schools in class A." That would not work and the majority of the private schools would get dominated by the class A schools. Class A schools would not want all the private schools in their class. I do understand how awesome it is when the small schools beat the big schools/private schools. It was awesome to see Strasburg make the class B boys state tournament a couple years ago. However, what place did they take? The big/private schools were in the top 5 places and the smallest schools (like Strasburg) took 7th and 8th.

Finally, I get that having more classes would mean more travel time which would mean teams would have to miss more school. I agree that education is more important than sports. However, I am a teacher and from what I've witnessed, most students who are in extra-curricular activities are the better students who have no problem learning what they missed. Is it ideal? No. Is it frustrating as a teacher? Sometimes. However, the things students learn while being on their respective teams is educational as well. And to overcome students missing class due to extra-curricular activities whether it is sports, music, or academics like the acalympics or science olympiad, I have created videos and use online resources to help my students who miss class get caught up. Most students who are in extra-curricular activities are the ones motivated enough to get caught up. So overall, I think the pros of going to a 3-class system far outweigh any cons.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby B-oldtimer » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:07 pm

I agree with you totally but its been broke for nearly 20 years now and powers that be will not change it. NDHSAA is afraid of changing anything because it could have effect on revenues and if you look at powers to be its made up pretty much by larger schools. As long as Tv continues to pay to put the state tournaments on and provide enough revenue to cover the expenses nobody is going to change anything. I hate to sound so negative but it has been brought forth several times by various regions and smaller schools over last few years and it has been eventually killed. I have come to conclusion that until there becomes a problem to sell the product to tv were not going have any changes. A matter of fairness to the smaller schools and kids that participate is not even considered. I think a lot of the larger schools opinion is these smaller schools should either close or coop to where they can compete no matter what hardship or in practical of doing so. So we are stuck with this set up and for me now my kids are done with this so I don't have any skin in the game anymore. I do feel for the small schools and kids participating but only way I see change if enough small schools board of directors would start banding and putting pressure on powers to be including there administrations we might get something done.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby classB4ever » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:44 pm

Following is how Region championship games would look using current class B system and current poll:
Region 1 Championship game - Oak Grove vs. Wyndmere-Lidgerwood.
Region 2 Championship game - Thompson vs. Hillsboro-Central Valley
Region 3 Championship game - Carrington vs. Edgley-Kulm-Montpelier
Region 4 Championship game - St. John vs. Dunseith
Region 5 Championship game - Shiloh Christian vs. Solen
Region 6 Championship game - Bishop Ryan vs. Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood
Region 7 Championship game - Dickinson Trinity vs. Beulah
Region 8 Championship game - Stanley vs. New Town

Here's how they would look using the system outlined above in this topic having 4 regions for A and 4 regions for B each sending a team to 8 team state tournament:
Region 1A (Current regions 1 & 2 enrollment 151+ and PS) Oak Grove vs. HCV
Region 1B (Current regions 1 & 2 enrollment 150-) Wyndmere Lidgerwood vs. Thompson
Region 2A (Current regions 3 & 4 enrollment 151+ and PS) Carrington vs. Dunseith
Region 2B (Current regions 3 & 4 enrollment 150-) Edgley-Kulm-Montpelier vs. St. John
Region 3A (Current regions 5 & 6 enrollment 150+ and PS) Shiloh Christian vs. Bishop Ryan
Region 3B (Current regions 5 & 6 enrollment 150-) Solen vs. Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood
Region 4A (Current regions 7 & 8 enrollment 150+ and PS) Dickinson Trinity vs. Stanley
Region 4B (Current regions 7 & 8 enrollment 150-) Hettinger-Scranton vs. Powers Lake

Here's predicting the 2018 state tournament using past history and current poll:
Region 1 Champ - Oak Grove = 50%
Region 2 Champ - HCV or Grafton > 57%
Region 3 Champ - Carrington = 50%
Region 4 Champ - St. John = 50%
Region 5 Champ - Shiloh Christian > 75%
Region 6 Champ - Bishop Ryan > 58%
Region 7 Champ - Dickinson Trinity or Beulah > 81%
Region 8 Champ - Stanley > 70%
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Re: 3 class system

Postby B-oldtimer » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:43 am

If your going to split class b up into two classes the 150 mark is way to high. I believe you will need to make the split at some where around 100 to 120. Then you will see whole new set of schools that would be playing for state. This has been the problem nobody wants to make the split where that top tier of class b would have to compete against each other. In Football they have done this and look it seems to work quite successfully and now they even have added 6 man for the smallest schools which I believe will be gaining popularity when the rural districts continue loose populations. But getting back to basketball if you had split in that 100 range most all of the teams listed above would be playing against each other but you see how that top one third would not be getting to go to state numerous times in 10 year period it would be significantly less for number of these schools. This is the reason you can't get change the system.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:08 pm

B-oldtimer wrote:If your going to split class b up into two classes the 150 mark is way to high. I believe you will need to make the split at some where around 100 to 120. Then you will see whole new set of schools that would be playing for state. This has been the problem nobody wants to make the split where that top tier of class b would have to compete against each other. In Football they have done this and look it seems to work quite successfully and now they even have added 6 man for the smallest schools which I believe will be gaining popularity when the rural districts continue loose populations. But getting back to basketball if you had split in that 100 range most all of the teams listed above would be playing against each other but you see how that top one third would not be getting to go to state numerous times in 10 year period it would be significantly less for number of these schools. This is the reason you can't get change the system.


I think that if a 3 class system ever gets approved it will have to be split up with a set number of teams per division, not an enrollment number. Something like football with the biggest 20 teams in AA, the next 40 in A, and the rest in B. Enrollments change so much over time and I think that is part of the problem with the current setup at 325. That was probably a nice number back in the 60s that gave the teams a good split. Now, 50 years later the landscape has changed and 325 is a huge enrollment in our state. If you set it at 125, that number may be unacceptable to 30 years and you get the same arguments again.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby Flying Wallenda » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm

classB4ever wrote:Following is how Region championship games would look using current class B system and current poll:
Region 1 Championship game - Oak Grove vs. Wyndmere-Lidgerwood.
Region 2 Championship game - Thompson vs. Hillsboro-Central Valley
Region 3 Championship game - Carrington vs. Edgley-Kulm-Montpelier
Region 4 Championship game - St. John vs. Dunseith
Region 5 Championship game - Shiloh Christian vs. Solen
Region 6 Championship game - Bishop Ryan vs. Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood
Region 7 Championship game - Dickinson Trinity vs. Beulah
Region 8 Championship game - Stanley vs. New Town

Here's how they would look using the system outlined above in this topic having 4 regions for A and 4 regions for B each sending a team to 8 team state tournament:
Region 1A (Current regions 1 & 2 enrollment 151+ and PS) Oak Grove vs. HCV
Region 1B (Current regions 1 & 2 enrollment 150-) Wyndmere Lidgerwood vs. Thompson
Region 2A (Current regions 3 & 4 enrollment 151+ and PS) Carrington vs. Dunseith
Region 2B (Current regions 3 & 4 enrollment 150-) Edgley-Kulm-Montpelier vs. St. John
Region 3A (Current regions 5 & 6 enrollment 150+ and PS) Shiloh Christian vs. Bishop Ryan
Region 3B (Current regions 5 & 6 enrollment 150-) Solen vs. Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood
Region 4A (Current regions 7 & 8 enrollment 150+ and PS) Dickinson Trinity vs. Stanley
Region 4B (Current regions 7 & 8 enrollment 150-) Hettinger-Scranton vs. Powers Lake

Here's predicting the 2018 state tournament using past history and current poll:
Region 1 Champ - Oak Grove = 50%
Region 2 Champ - HCV or Grafton > 57%
Region 3 Champ - Carrington = 50%
Region 4 Champ - St. John = 50%
Region 5 Champ - Shiloh Christian > 75%
Region 6 Champ - Bishop Ryan > 58%
Region 7 Champ - Dickinson Trinity or Beulah > 81%
Region 8 Champ - Stanley > 70%

Explain “using past history and the poll” to me? Thompson is ranked #4 in the current poll from region 2- why aren’t they favored?
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Re: 3 class system

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:35 am

Flying Wallenda wrote:
classB4ever wrote:Following is how Region championship games would look using current class B system and current poll:
Region 1 Championship game - Oak Grove vs. Wyndmere-Lidgerwood.
Region 2 Championship game - Thompson vs. Hillsboro-Central Valley
Region 3 Championship game - Carrington vs. Edgley-Kulm-Montpelier
Region 4 Championship game - St. John vs. Dunseith
Region 5 Championship game - Shiloh Christian vs. Solen
Region 6 Championship game - Bishop Ryan vs. Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood
Region 7 Championship game - Dickinson Trinity vs. Beulah
Region 8 Championship game - Stanley vs. New Town

Here's how they would look using the system outlined above in this topic having 4 regions for A and 4 regions for B each sending a team to 8 team state tournament:
Region 1A (Current regions 1 & 2 enrollment 151+ and PS) Oak Grove vs. HCV
Region 1B (Current regions 1 & 2 enrollment 150-) Wyndmere Lidgerwood vs. Thompson
Region 2A (Current regions 3 & 4 enrollment 151+ and PS) Carrington vs. Dunseith
Region 2B (Current regions 3 & 4 enrollment 150-) Edgley-Kulm-Montpelier vs. St. John
Region 3A (Current regions 5 & 6 enrollment 150+ and PS) Shiloh Christian vs. Bishop Ryan
Region 3B (Current regions 5 & 6 enrollment 150-) Solen vs. Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood
Region 4A (Current regions 7 & 8 enrollment 150+ and PS) Dickinson Trinity vs. Stanley
Region 4B (Current regions 7 & 8 enrollment 150-) Hettinger-Scranton vs. Powers Lake

Here's predicting the 2018 state tournament using past history and current poll:
Region 1 Champ - Oak Grove = 50%
Region 2 Champ - HCV or Grafton > 57%
Region 3 Champ - Carrington = 50%
Region 4 Champ - St. John = 50%
Region 5 Champ - Shiloh Christian > 75%
Region 6 Champ - Bishop Ryan > 58%
Region 7 Champ - Dickinson Trinity or Beulah > 81%
Region 8 Champ - Stanley > 70%

Explain “using past history and the poll” to me? Thompson is ranked #4 in the current poll from region 2- why aren’t they favored?

My guess: They haven't made it out of the Region any time lately...whereas Grafton & H-CV have been to State - "Past History".
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Re: 3 class system

Postby classB4ever » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:59 pm

Flying Wallenda wrote:Explain “using past history and the poll” to me? Thompson is ranked #4 in the current poll from region 2- why aren’t they favored?


Using an average over 21 year period
Region 2 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 14 87.50%

Region 2 Champs Over 21 Years
Big Schools = 12 57.14%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 9 42.86%

For what it's worth, I think Thompson has a great chance. Was just giving history of each region.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby classB4ever » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:00 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:
I think that if a 3 class system ever gets approved it will have to be split up with a set number of teams per division, not an enrollment number. Something like football with the biggest 20 teams in AA, the next 40 in A, and the rest in B. Enrollments change so much over time and I think that is part of the problem with the current setup at 325. That was probably a nice number back in the 60s that gave the teams a good split. Now, 50 years later the landscape has changed and 325 is a huge enrollment in our state. If you set it at 125, that number may be unacceptable to 30 years and you get the same arguments again.


100% agree.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby Flying Wallenda » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:14 pm

classB4ever wrote:
Flying Wallenda wrote:Explain “using past history and the poll” to me? Thompson is ranked #4 in the current poll from region 2- why aren’t they favored?


Using an average over 21 year period
Region 2 Schools = 16

Big Schools = 2 12.50%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 14 87.50%

Region 2 Champs Over 21 Years
Big Schools = 12 57.14%
Private = 0 0.00%
Small = 9 42.86%

For what it's worth, I think Thompson has a great chance. Was just giving history of each region.

HCV has only been combined the last 5-6 years ....
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Re: 3 class system

Postby classB4ever » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:19 pm

Flying Wallenda wrote:HCV has only been combined the last 5-6 years ....


Correct. Over the past 21 years, I went by the enrollment of the schools each year. Some schools bounced back and forth due to consolidations, co-ops, etc. Have also found out over the years that finding accurate enrollment numbers is not always easy.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby Thundersnow » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:12 pm

It's now official that Watford City will be moving up to Class A next season. I know their girls basketball program has been strong historically, although it looks like they've taken a small step backwards this year. Their boys program has had some good teams in the past, but they haven't made it to state since 2009. As of now, it looks like both basketball programs will struggle terribly in the WDA. Do you think Watford City moving up to Class A might have any impact on a serious discussion of a 3-class system? I can't imagine teams like Minot, Century, or Bismarck will enjoy traveling to Watford City to win by 50.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby The Schwab » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:41 pm

Thundersnow wrote:It's now official that Watford City will be moving up to Class A next season. I know their girls basketball program has been strong historically, although it looks like they've taken a small step backwards this year. Their boys program has had some good teams in the past, but they haven't made it to state since 2009. As of now, it looks like both basketball programs will struggle terribly in the WDA. Do you think Watford City moving up to Class A might have any impact on a serious discussion of a 3-class system? I can't imagine teams like Minot, Century, or Bismarck will enjoy traveling to Watford City to win by 50.


Watford City moving up to Class A will be the best thing to happen for those in favor of the 3 class system. The only thing that would make it have more of an impact is if it happened to a team on the eastern side of the state, that way more people would see the scores and it would be closer to Valley City.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby B-oldtimer » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:40 pm

I hate to say it but I don't think it will change the powers to be change anything. We have had this problem for nearly 25 years and nothing has been done about it because of large class b schools don't want to change the system and because tv has liked this way. Watford city will just become the Valley City of the West it was just there unlucky happening they out grew other large class b schools. Grafton was similar to this in the east until they finally fell back to class b. Also Beulah went through this where they were bouncing between the classes. Nobody did anything then and I doubt we will change anything now. Go to all the regions take the lower one third of the teams and for the most part they are small schools of the region. These schools have little success over the years but have we had any serious looks at competitive balance in basketball. The answer is no but when it comes to football we have plan every two years changing divisions number of teams and ability of the teams to compete at different levels. Even now we have added whole new division of football in six man for the small schools its just getting started but the activities association has made changes. Now we get to basketball we haven't had any changes since they ended class c back in 1960's. I just don't get it why the activities association is so stuck on this structure it has to be because of money from television. But today we have multiple platforms for getting high school activities on tv. This means they can still sell the most profitable tournament to traditional Tv to keep their revenue coming in. They could still find outlets that would broadcast extra classes that traditional tv would not want to broadcast. I look at BEK tv as one of the sources that would broad cast this level and I believe there will be more of these outlets forming in the state as well. The problem is people in charge are unwilling to change and fear any changes may effect their interests. But bottom line is interest and following of the sport is dropping across the state each year. The change will come when tv is not that interested in the product anymore and not willing to spend to buy the product which could come much quicker than powers to be may in vision. Enough said but I guess I will keep griping even if it doesn't do any good.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby Thundersnow » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:14 pm

B-oldtimer, you bring up great points about football. Every two years, teams get moved around in the name of competitive balance. Geography gets thrown out the window (look at the teams in AA Football this year). Having Wahpeton and Grafton playing regular season games against Watford City makes absolutely zero sense. Despite the geography, teams 3-9 were extremely close in AA football this year. The other divisions were also relatively competitive when compared to basketball. I don't understand why we can be so concerned about competition levels in football, but not care about it at all in basketball. The fact is Mott-Regent should not be in the same region as Beulah, White Shield should not be in the same district as Watford City, Valley City should not be in the same conference as West Fargo, and Watford City should not be in the same conference as Minot.
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