3 class system

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Re: 3 class system

Postby The Schwab » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:20 am

balla45 wrote:
The Schwab wrote:The 3 class system talk is about 20 years too late, it should have happened before all the co-ops started happening. I ask you though, why did all these co-ops happen? I know a lot of schools co-oped for the chance to just be able to compete with the larger schools in their districts/regions. Right now we have a broken system. I understand that people from regions 2, 4 and 8 might not see the system as broken and that's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. My thoughts on how to better fix the system rather then a traditional 3 class system (because the NDHSAA has made it clear that no matter what it's members want, this will NEVER happen) is to lower the cutoff number to class A. Have the top class of 20 teams be in high A, Low A be the next 20 teams and have two regions for each class. Top four from each region in High and Low "A" qualify for the state tournament, use a QRF formula (this way they could schedule bigger class B schools and wouldn't kill rivalries or make unrealistic travel) to seed them 1-16 (have 2 games each at 4 neutral site locations (GF, Fargo, Minot, Bismarck)) winner of those 8 qualifying games qualifies for the state Class A tournament. For this to work all schools with non-defined borders couldn't play in class B. This way you would have a chance for great matchups, the NDHSAA would love it because they'd make more money and it would bring back a small town feel to class B basketball. Just my two cents, take it for what it's worth.


I still hate this idea. Teams would consistently be at the A tournament that are not good enough to be there creating some gross basketball.


In theory the current class A state tournament could be the same as it is now if not better because you could get the 8 true best teams in the state at the "AA" tournament
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Re: 3 class system

Postby classB4ever » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:16 pm

The Schwab wrote:The 3 class system talk is about 20 years too late, it should have happened before all the co-ops started happening. I ask you though, why did all these co-ops happen? I know a lot of schools co-oped for the chance to just be able to compete with the larger schools in their districts/regions. Right now we have a broken system. I understand that people from regions 2, 4 and 8 might not see the system as broken and that's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. My thoughts on how to better fix the system rather then a traditional 3 class system (because the NDHSAA has made it clear that no matter what it's members want, this will NEVER happen) is to lower the cutoff number to class A. Have the top class of 20 teams be in high A, Low A be the next 20 teams and have two regions for each class. Top four from each region in High and Low "A" qualify for the state tournament, use a QRF formula (this way they could schedule bigger class B schools and wouldn't kill rivalries or make unrealistic travel) to seed them 1-16 (have 2 games each at 4 neutral site locations (GF, Fargo, Minot, Bismarck)) winner of those 8 qualifying games qualifies for the state Class A tournament. For this to work all schools with non-defined borders couldn't play in class B. This way you would have a chance for great matchups, the NDHSAA would love it because they'd make more money and it would bring back a small town feel to class B basketball. Just my two cents, take it for what it's worth.


I like the way this is set up but still think it is moving the problem from bottom to top. What I can't figure out is why this couldn't be done on the bottom side. Let's say we have AA, A and B. Raise the enrollment cutoff from 325 to whatever it takes to get rid of some of these towns bouncing back and forth. Let's just say 400. Move bottom cutoff to say 150 or 175. Leave "AA" alone, they fixed their problems from the past with the shot clock. Their basketball tournament this year was incredible. Very talented teams playing a high level of basketball.

1. 4 regional tournaments for "A" and "B" where like teams are playing like teams.
2. Each regional tournament sends 1 team. 4 from "A" and 4 from "B" to 8 team state tournament.
3. Use a reasonable multiplier for parochial schools. Only to move between A and B. Opting up is always allowed.
4. During regular season, there should be no problem filling up your schedule between A and B teams. Same as now so shouldn't be any travel issues.

I think this would be a very fair sampling of teams and create a better state tourney. There's usually about 50% small teams representing the B and 50% large/parochial representing the B. The problem is that some of the better small teams get cancelled out year in and year out by powerhouses in their said region. This simply allows the best of each to attend. 2 cents.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby The Schwab » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:10 pm

classB4ever wrote:
The Schwab wrote:The 3 class system talk is about 20 years too late, it should have happened before all the co-ops started happening. I ask you though, why did all these co-ops happen? I know a lot of schools co-oped for the chance to just be able to compete with the larger schools in their districts/regions. Right now we have a broken system. I understand that people from regions 2, 4 and 8 might not see the system as broken and that's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. My thoughts on how to better fix the system rather then a traditional 3 class system (because the NDHSAA has made it clear that no matter what it's members want, this will NEVER happen) is to lower the cutoff number to class A. Have the top class of 20 teams be in high A, Low A be the next 20 teams and have two regions for each class. Top four from each region in High and Low "A" qualify for the state tournament, use a QRF formula (this way they could schedule bigger class B schools and wouldn't kill rivalries or make unrealistic travel) to seed them 1-16 (have 2 games each at 4 neutral site locations (GF, Fargo, Minot, Bismarck)) winner of those 8 qualifying games qualifies for the state Class A tournament. For this to work all schools with non-defined borders couldn't play in class B. This way you would have a chance for great matchups, the NDHSAA would love it because they'd make more money and it would bring back a small town feel to class B basketball. Just my two cents, take it for what it's worth.


I like the way this is set up but still think it is moving the problem from bottom to top. What I can't figure out is why this couldn't be done on the bottom side. Let's say we have AA, A and B. Raise the enrollment cutoff from 325 to whatever it takes to get rid of some of these towns bouncing back and forth. Let's just say 400. Move bottom cutoff to say 150 or 175. Leave "AA" alone, they fixed their problems from the past with the shot clock. Their basketball tournament this year was incredible. Very talented teams playing a high level of basketball.

1. 4 regional tournaments for "A" and "B" where like teams are playing like teams.
2. Each regional tournament sends 1 team. 4 from "A" and 4 from "B" to 8 team state tournament.
3. Use a reasonable multiplier for parochial schools. Only to move between A and B. Opting up is always allowed.
4. During regular season, there should be no problem filling up your schedule between A and B teams. Same as now so shouldn't be any travel issues.

I think this would be a very fair sampling of teams and create a better state tourney. There's usually about 50% small teams representing the B and 50% large/parochial representing the B. The problem is that some of the better small teams get cancelled out year in and year out by powerhouses in their said region. This simply allows the best of each to attend. 2 cents.


Not a bad idea, NDHSAA probably would approve this, as long as you have all schools without defined district lines in the "A" class I'd be in favor of it.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby winner-within » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:30 pm

I heard last night on the news Grand Rapids MN is going down to 1A...... enrollment cut off is 201...they have 201

point being 150 would make sense in ND if MN is 201 with all their towns


side note: Minneapolis north is moving up to 2A they just won State again at 1A all games by 30 plus
only 2 losses this season were one to a 3A team and 1 to a 4A team..............
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Re: 3 class system

Postby classB4ever » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:37 pm

The Schwab wrote:
Not a bad idea, NDHSAA probably would approve this, as long as you have all schools without defined district lines in the "A" class I'd be in favor of it.


Agree with bold above. This system would make regionals, "Super" Regionals.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby Flip » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:11 pm

winner-within wrote:I heard last night on the news Grand Rapids MN is going down to 1A...... enrollment cut off is 201...they have 201

point being 150 would make sense in ND if MN is 201 with all their towns


side note: Minneapolis north is moving up to 2A they just won State again at 1A all games by 30 plus
only 2 losses this season were one to a 3A team and 1 to a 4A team..............

Minneapolis North is weird. The won AAAA state titles back in the 90s. Khalid El Amin used to play for them. He won a national title at UConn as was drafted by the Bulls. I heard their coach wanted to move up to AAA. No one at A has been able to compete with them the last 2-3 years.

Any of the enrollment numbers you see for MN have some F&R meals calculation in them too.

classB4ever, I'm more for 3 classes, but I think your plan is better than having a the middle class play the top class in the state tournament. btw, I think these mixed class proposals have no chance of passing. Anyone know of a state that has something like that?
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Re: 3 class system

Postby classB4ever » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:37 pm

Flip wrote:
classB4ever, I'm more for 3 classes, but I think your plan is better than having a the middle class play the top class in the state tournament. btw, I think these mixed class proposals have no chance of passing. Anyone know of a state that has something like that?


Not sure about your question as haven't had a chance to research. You are also probably correct in the mixed classes not passing as it is a hybrid system. However, it seems hybrid seeds have done wonders for farming in the past 30 years? Perhaps combining two average products could produce something that is much stronger, gives higher yields and is much more resistant against disease.
Last edited by classB4ever on Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby Latshaw » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:55 am

I think it's better than the old system.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby go maji » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:58 pm

hawkeye99 wrote:Is North Dakota the last State to have a 2 class system? Most States have several basketball classes to align enrollment numbers into a similar range. Iowa has 5 classes for Girl's basketball and 4 for Boy's basketball, great games almost every night, classifications are evaluated/changed every 2 years. Teams form conferences somewhat geographically without regard to class ranking to simplify travel. Line up in regions (8 regions with 8 teams in most classes, the highest class is limited to the largest 48 schools) for post season. Seems like ND could do something along the lines of 16 largest enrollments in one class, the next 64 in another class, the remainder in the smallest class.


This is what I found.

DELAWARE 1
HAWAII 2
Kentucky 1
Rhode island 1
*I might've missed 1, but hope I didn't.

Most states have around 4 clases
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