Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Class AA Girls
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby bcourtbraves » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:51 pm

Haha... Belcourt is having a good season this year. They aren't "tearing it up." Any team they lost to, they should have lost to. They are very talented. However they are very young, hence the turnover and poor free throw shooting. Refs are refs, fair or not. Games aren't decided by the official. As for injuries and illness, just about everyteam barring very good luck will have injuries. Just be hopeful that all the girls are at full health when regionals come around. Thats when they need to "tear it up" and take care of the ball.
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby Deuce » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:56 pm

The biggest hurdle Belcourt has to overcome to make it to state is their home reffing. When they get bailed out of traps, allowed to take that step off of the dribble and can try to block every layup without fouling they don't learn to avoid those situations. So when they get to WDA and don't get those calls they usually don't do well. Belcourt has a very sloppy press break so the turnovers are probably abundant whether they're ill or not.

But they do have the potential. They have some very athletic girls that can score but fundamentals will be the key for them to get to the next level.
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby toddjames » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:14 pm

Deuce wrote:The biggest hurdle Belcourt has to overcome to make it to state is their home reffing. When they get bailed out of traps, allowed to take that step off of the dribble and can try to block every layup without fouling they don't learn to avoid those situations. So when they get to WDA and don't get those calls they usually don't do well. Belcourt has a very sloppy press break so the turnovers are probably abundant whether they're ill or not.

But they do have the potential. They have some very athletic girls that can score but fundamentals will be the key for them to get to the next level.


What team doesn't get favored at home? It's funny how when a team, native or non, complains out getting a ref job, people say it's an excuse or quit crying... but when a team is playing better than it has in the past few years, credit can't be given where it's deserved... try to realize that you are telling a team (Belcourt) that has had to deal with more, way more than its share of other team's homering up on them, to be ashamed of "home reffing"...
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby balla45 » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:22 pm

toddjames wrote:
Deuce wrote:The biggest hurdle Belcourt has to overcome to make it to state is their home reffing. When they get bailed out of traps, allowed to take that step off of the dribble and can try to block every layup without fouling they don't learn to avoid those situations. So when they get to WDA and don't get those calls they usually don't do well. Belcourt has a very sloppy press break so the turnovers are probably abundant whether they're ill or not.

But they do have the potential. They have some very athletic girls that can score but fundamentals will be the key for them to get to the next level.


What team doesn't get favored at home? It's funny how when a team, native or non, complains out getting a ref job, people say it's an excuse or quit crying... but when a team is playing better than it has in the past few years, credit can't be given where it's deserved... try to realize that you are telling a team (Belcourt) that has had to deal with more, way more than its share of other team's homering up on them, to be ashamed of "home reffing"...


13 travels and 8 3 second calls in the 2nd half. What do you think?
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby toddjames » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:00 am

balla45 wrote:
toddjames wrote:
Deuce wrote:The biggest hurdle Belcourt has to overcome to make it to state is their home reffing. When they get bailed out of traps, allowed to take that step off of the dribble and can try to block every layup without fouling they don't learn to avoid those situations. So when they get to WDA and don't get those calls they usually don't do well. Belcourt has a very sloppy press break so the turnovers are probably abundant whether they're ill or not.

But they do have the potential. They have some very athletic girls that can score but fundamentals will be the key for them to get to the next level.


What team doesn't get favored at home? It's funny how when a team, native or non, complains out getting a ref job, people say it's an excuse or quit crying... but when a team is playing better than it has in the past few years, credit can't be given where it's deserved... try to realize that you are telling a team (Belcourt) that has had to deal with more, way more than its share of other team's homering up on them, to be ashamed of "home reffing"...


13 travels and 8 3 second calls in the 2nd half. What do you think?


And of those 13 travels, and eight 3-second calls, how many were legit in your mind?"
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby balla45 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:28 am

toddjames wrote:
balla45 wrote:
toddjames wrote:
Deuce wrote:The biggest hurdle Belcourt has to overcome to make it to state is their home reffing. When they get bailed out of traps, allowed to take that step off of the dribble and can try to block every layup without fouling they don't learn to avoid those situations. So when they get to WDA and don't get those calls they usually don't do well. Belcourt has a very sloppy press break so the turnovers are probably abundant whether they're ill or not.

But they do have the potential. They have some very athletic girls that can score but fundamentals will be the key for them to get to the next level.


What team doesn't get favored at home? It's funny how when a team, native or non, complains out getting a ref job, people say it's an excuse or quit crying... but when a team is playing better than it has in the past few years, credit can't be given where it's deserved... try to realize that you are telling a team (Belcourt) that has had to deal with more, way more than its share of other team's homering up on them, to be ashamed of "home reffing"...


13 travels and 8 3 second calls in the 2nd half. What do you think?


And of those 13 travels, and eight 3-second calls, how many were legit in your mind?"


6. 1. My mind might be legit too. I've been reffing for 3 years and playing for over 10.
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby Deuce » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:44 am

toddjames wrote:
Deuce wrote:The biggest hurdle Belcourt has to overcome to make it to state is their home reffing. When they get bailed out of traps, allowed to take that step off of the dribble and can try to block every layup without fouling they don't learn to avoid those situations. So when they get to WDA and don't get those calls they usually don't do well. Belcourt has a very sloppy press break so the turnovers are probably abundant whether they're ill or not.

But they do have the potential. They have some very athletic girls that can score but fundamentals will be the key for them to get to the next level.


What team doesn't get favored at home? It's funny how when a team, native or non, complains out getting a ref job, people say it's an excuse or quit crying... but when a team is playing better than it has in the past few years, credit can't be given where it's deserved... try to realize that you are telling a team (Belcourt) that has had to deal with more, way more than its share of other team's homering up on them, to be ashamed of "home reffing"...


I never said they should be ashamed, I said it was not to their benefit. I'm not buying the "everyone picks on us" argument. I was just offering my opinion about why I think Belcourt can have a good team and then fall short in the WDA tournament. It isn't because they get homered, its because they play under unrealistic conditions half of their games during the year. The other half they say they got homered but in the end they still end up with those bad habits. The result is the guys or girls don't develope their fundumentals and skills as far as they should during the year to take that next step which is to get to state.
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby toddjames » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:51 pm

That has been very true in recent history, but there are a lot of bigger reasons than just getting "help" at home... a different coach every other year, kids leaving for smaller schools... but I think things are moving in the right direction there now, and it's starting to show with the girls team this year... If this team can maintain and play with the same confidence they do now, throughout tournament time, they'll be in the state tournament... I guess we'll see what happens.
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby chuck2010 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:26 pm

Mandan over Turtle Mountain. Tough game for the Bravettes.....only scored 18 points in the first half. No idea how the rest of the game went as far as details.
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby ladybravettefan » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:02 pm

yeah thats true. belcourt has had bad games i mean come on who doesnt? yeah and half of our girls were hurt. but yeah we still won because we are just that good. we have players to sub in and out. Belcourt ALWAYS gets a ref job. everyone thinks we have the worst refs but then you obviously never saw bismarcks, jamestowns refs. now they are bad.
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby balla45 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:25 am

ladybravettefan wrote:yeah thats true. belcourt has had bad games i mean come on who doesnt? yeah and half of our girls were hurt. but yeah we still won because we are just that good. we have players to sub in and out. Belcourt ALWAYS gets a ref job. everyone thinks we have the worst refs but then you obviously never saw bismarcks, jamestowns refs. now they are bad.


The reason visiting teams think you have an unfair advantage is simply that you do. Every other team plays against Bismarck and Jamestown refs. I don't see complaints. Every single time a team plays in Belcourt, there are complaints.

I shall use the boy's scores to illustrate my point.

Average loss at home = 19 points.
Average loss on the road = 32.25.

You don't think the reffing effects that?

Look at the Mandan girls' game. A 32 point swing? Really? With no bias?
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby oldguy1 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:02 am

This is just a thought. Doesn't travel time have an effect on games. To and from Williston or Belcourt and has any coach filed a complaint with the NDHSAA about the referees, in any venue in the state?
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby AAAsportsfan » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:25 am

Let's take that a step further and look at all the travel these two teams have to do at just about EVERY away game! Williston traveled to Bismarck three times in a 8 day period playing four teams. That is around a four hour bus trip one way every time.
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby Eminence » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:11 am

I don't think Belcourt has a monopoly on refs and home court advantage. You see it in alot of gyms.

It will be interesting to see how Belcourt responds and finishes out the season. The have a decent team with a lot of potential. There is alot of big matchups left and it will be interesting to see how Belcourt compares.
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby alexanderthegreat » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:06 pm

I think a big part of the point swing in between the two match-ups is that Mandan struggled a little bit early on in the season and now they are hitting their stride and playing great basketball. They certainly showed that in the Century game.
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby belcourtgirl20 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:41 pm

you all think they we reff everyone up here. but we dont. i mean look at this weekend in mandan the reffs were just as bad. if not worse. belcourt is away from everyteam. wen the other teams come up here they always have travel time. sitting on a bus affects how they play. that is why we play better at home. but so does every single other team. name one team that doesn do better with the home court advantage. why do you think mandan hasnt lost in so long at home. the reffs. plus it being on their court. they dont have to sit on a bus. and in jamestown the reffs are the worst! everytime we go their it is bad. in the boys game at the end of the half belcourt was in double bonus and they had 4 fouls same at the end of the game we were in double and they only had 5 or 6 fouls. tell me where you see that as fair. i mean belcourt has to put up with it every game. i am not tryin to say you should feel sorry or anything i am just sayin look at it from where we are comming from. its just not fair to us.
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby Eminence » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:49 pm

I don't think it is just Belcourt. It happens in every gym because there is no independent association that assigns the refs.

Belcourt had a couple of losses on the road and it will be interesting to see how they respond. They have some tough games coming up. Every player is more comfortable at home and shoot better on their own rim.
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby bbfollower » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:56 pm

The comment about Mandan and their not losing games in a long time at home really holds no water. They actually, up until this year, have not lost many games at home or away, so that cannot explain the disparity in the reffing. I did not see the Mandan-Belcourt game in Belcourt, but have heard some things about the refs and such, but cannot say much as I did not see the first game. Mandan is hitting their stride and looking like a team rather than 5 individual girls out there playing. Hopefully they can continue this.
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby NDSportsFan » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:41 pm

I think over the years the officiating in Belcourt has gotten a reputation of being one sided, no matter who's working the games. Whether or not it's deserved or not, it really doesn't matter. So teams perceive they are playing against the reffs before it even starts. It's self-fulfilling prophecy.

My guess is that it's probably a little overblown.
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Re: Belcourt Bravettes vs. Mandan Braves

Postby mintoman » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:05 pm

I wouldn't say Mandan has a home court advantage at all. If you have noticed we always get those dang refs from Bismarck!!!
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