EDC tournament location

[larrybird33]

I read a provocative article that deserves a response and some discussion here:


Valley City Denied as EDC Tournament Host
By Ryan Cunningham  NewsDakota.com

March 1

Valley City--It appears only Fargo and Grand Forks will ever host Eastern Dakota Conference (EDC) tournaments.

Despite its hometown team, the Hi-Liners, being forced into membership in the EDC, Valley City was flatly denied the opportunity to host the league's post-season tournament at a recent meeting of EDC athletic directors.

Waylan Starr, Valley City High School's Athletic Director, along with Wahpeton's Athletic Director, Mike McCall, approached the group about a rotational basis for the tournament, with all five EDC communities, Fargo, Grand Forks, Devils Lake, Valley City, and Wahpeton, taking turns hosting.

Devils Lake's representatives responded by stating that their main focus is hosting Class "B" regional tournaments, but that they would be fine with their turn being skipped, with the other towns rotating.

With little discussion, a representative from Grand Forks moved for the EDC hockey tournament to remain in Grand Forks, and the EDC basketball tournament to remain "in the Fargo area at a site to be determined."  The vote was 7-2.

The EDC voted to move it's first round of the basketball tournaments away from a neutral site, opting for the four top seeds to host a first round game.  The Western Dakota Association (WDA), the Class "A" west region, did not make the same move.

Many feel that post-season tournaments should be kept together, rather than separated, and that the current arrangement unfairly favors the largest schools in Fargo and Grand Forks, who have the highest odds of hosting games.

Of the four largest enrollments in the EDC, three schools, Fargo North, West Fargo, and Grand Forks Red River, will host.  The other home team will be private, faith-based Fargo Shanley.

[larrybird33]

First of all, the author does a great job of putting forth the VCHS viewpoint on this issue. He is not neutral and not pretending to be neutral.

Here is my analysis of a few of the more provocative statements:

1) Valley City was forced into the EDC.
Well... Kind of. VCHS was told that they could not play independent schedules with any of their teams, otherwise all of its teams would be banned from postseason competition. I agree that this is unfair to VCHS. No other school has been held to that standard.

2) Valley City should get to host the EDC tournament on a rotational basis.
I am ok with the town of Valley City hosting the EDC tournament if it is played at VCSU, but not at VCHS. Postseason tournaments should be played at neutral sites, not at home courts. Thus, I don't like the first round setup in the EDC this year where the higher seed hosts the game. Tournaments should be played at one site, and a neutral site if possible. In the WDA, the Bismarck Civic Center is the permanent neutral site host in the population center of the west. In the EDC, Fargo is the population center and has three or more neutral site possibilities. So if they are not going to rotate the EDC, the ruling today is the next best option.

3) In the current setup, VCHS is at a disadvantage.
Yes and no. Valley city plays its schedule and has a chance to earn a top four seed, just like any other school. However, being the small fish in terms of numbers, VCHS will have a harder time rising to the top. That's the reality of being one of the smallest schools in class A. The author mentions that three of the four largest schools are hosts. He fails to mention that Shanley is the smallest school in the EDC and will also be hosting, because that fact would damage his argument. He chose to focus on Shanley being a private school. Interesting tactic.

Bottom line... Let's move the EDC tournament back to one location per year. Rotate it among neutral sites in all the towns, or put it at a neutral site in Fargo each and every year.

[T$$]

This is an interesting topic. I can relate to both sides. However I don't think towns like Valley and Whapeton can handle an event that size. Keep in mind the regionals in class A are at a nuetral site and no one is playing in their home gym. I personally think all of the State BB tournaments should be in Bismarck as it is central and by far the best facility. Hockey should be in gf and football in Fargo. Bottom line is don't fix what works. Maybe they could play the state B in Flasher.

[gobison]

I'd put all games at either the Bison Sports Arena in Fargo or Alerus Center in Grand Forks with it alternating every year.

[bruins44]

I'd put all games at either the Bison Sports Arena in Fargo or Alerus Center in Grand Forks with it alternating every year.

The EDC tournament should always be in Fargo, period! 5 of the 10 EDC schools are in Fargo, and every school other than DL are an hour or less away. Have you been to an EDC tourney in Grand Forks? There were more Fargo people at the games at the Alerus than GF people. GF doesnt support basketball as a community. The Alerus is a great venue but most years a Fargo team will be playing in the championship meaning more casual fans will attend and Fargo has way more basketball fans than Grand Forks. I would love to see the East Region tournament at the Scheels Center, it would be a great venue and small enough to fill.

[T$$]

Don't worry. The tourney will be in Fargo when the new Bison arena is completed. That arena will also be a grat venue for state.

[heimer]

I was there today. There is no problem handling the tournament in Valley City.

I won't be neutral because the EDC isnt neutral. I had a conversation with Ed Lockwood on this issue, and while I respect him as an administrator, he did a very poor job defending this decision. He claimed that the tournament loses 25-30K when it goes to Grand Forks. There wouldn't be a total of that in charges for facilities in Valley City, not even a tenth of that cost. The tournament instantly grows in revenue by being located in Valley City.

I would point out that, had the EDC girls tournament been held at VCHS this year, the site would have been completely neutral. Had the boys tournament been held there, only one game would have been a home-court advantage. The sites could very easily be rotated to make sure the site it completely neutral.

If Valley City is going to be compelled to be in the EDC, it should have every right that every other school in the EDC has, which is to host any tournament the EDC has on a rotational basis. Instead, the Fargo schools are being "bullies with their chips", block voting all the littles out so they can have the advantage of being in their hometown every year for the post-season.

Fargo administrators broke up the first round because their gate has been so poor for the first round, home sites were the only way to make any money in the tournament. If Fargo and Grand Forks can't support the EDC, other cities should get a shot. Quoting Leon Knodel, "We can try it and always go back."

[bruins44]

so are you saying the WDA should be in DIckinson??? or WIlliston??? get real! its always going to be in Bismarck because they have the best facility, the most hotels, the best food, and 4 of the 8 teams are from Bismarck every year! Just because VC has a nice gym doesnt give them the right to have a tournament. there is a lot more that goes into than that! VC, most years wont have a team playing in the finals so why would you play a tourney in a town that wouldnt support it. Why make 8 teams travel when you dont have too? I really dont get your argument. Who says Fargo doesnt support the EDC tourney? Do you honestly think more people would go to games in VC? what and everybody go to PizzaCorner after? WOW

[heimer]

Way to show your Fargo arrogance. Apparently, it's exactly as I said. Fargo and Grand Forks are the only towns good enough to host tournaments.

Maybe the two of you should have your own league too. After all, we're not good enough to host, maybe we're not good enough to play you either.

[bruins44]

Way to show your Fargo arrogance. Apparently, it's exactly as I said. Fargo and Grand Forks are the only towns good enough to host tournaments.

Maybe the two of you should have your own league too. After all, we're not good enough to host, maybe we're not good enough to play you either.

Does Class B have their Region 1 tournament in Hankinson?? How about Region 2 at Hillsboro?? why not they have a nice gym? Like I said you really dont have an argument and YES Fargo and Grand Forks are the only two Cities that should host. 7 of the 10 teams are from those two cities... Why get your shorts all in a bunch? VC doesnt want to be in Class A anyhow.

[Bisonguy06]

Is VCSU big enough to host the EDC? I have never been in their facility...

[roundem6]

Why not Wahpeton then? Devils Lake?

[Bisonguy06]

Heimer, my issue with you has been that you seem to abandon what may be best for the majority to fight instead for what is best for VCHS. It seems here on this one that you are trying to prove my point. You now have no qualms about home court advantage in a postseason tournament?

[Bisonguy06]

I guess I better step back and let you answer this, first... Evaluate the EDC first round being moved to home gyms. Do you like the move?

[heimer]

I took a wait and see attitude. On evaluation, I don't think it matters. I don't like it for the fact that ND HS basketball has always been about moving to a new location and playing a tournament. But, unlike my Class B brethren, including you, I try to be flexible and open to change.

This has everything to do with what's best for EVERYONE, not just VC. If you go back and read the article it stated that the tournament was to be on a rotation. That's what I support, a rotation. If Devils Lake does not want to be a part of the rotation, then it should be Fargo, Grand Forks, Valley City, Wahpeton, once every four years.

Equity is best for EVERYONE.

[Bisonguy06]

There are 10 EDC schools. If we are using home gyms, the rotation needs to include all ten.

Equity is best for everyone, right?

[roundem6]

There are 10 EDC schools. If we are using home gyms, the rotation needs to include all ten.

Equity is best for everyone, right?

+1

[heimer]

There are five cities. It should appear in all of them an equal number of times.

[bruins44]

There are five cities. It should appear in all of them an equal number of times.

Name me another District, Region or State that does what you are proposing? It just doesnt make sense! I applaud your loyalty to the little guys in the world but you are waisting your time on this subject.

[heimer]

There are five cities. It should appear in all of them an equal number of times.

Name me another District, Region or State that does what you are proposing? It just doesnt make sense! I applaud your loyalty to the little guys in the world but you are waisting your time on this subject.

Region I Girls--Lisbon
District 3--Mayville
Region III Girls--Napoleon
District 4--is it in Grafton or GF?
Region VII--Beulah

How's that, oh, and by the way, it's wasting, which is what you're doing, not waisting, which is what is done with a hula hoop, which is the figurative item anyone but Fargo or a Class B team has to do to get equity under the North Dakota High School Association of A, oh wait, I could get banned.

[teamramrod]

why change what's working?

[Bisonguy06]

In heimer's infinite wisdom, he doesn't realize that if VCHS gets to host the EDC, Fargo South will want its turn, too.

He doesn't consider West Fargo to be its own community, and Devils Lake will opt out, so we are down to four communities hosting the EDC on a rotational basis.

He would defend the following rotation with a straight face:

2012 at valley city high school
2013 at wahpeton high school
2014 at red river high school
2015 at Fargo north high school
2016 at valley city high school
2017 at wahpeton high school
2018 at gf central
2019 at Fargo south
2020 at valley city high school
2021 at wahpeton
2022 at grand forks red river
2023 at Fargo Davies
2024 at valley city
25 at wahpeton
26 at gfc
27 at Fargo shanley
28 at vchs
29 at wahpeton
30 at gfrr
31 at west Fargo
32 at vchs

[Bisonguy06]

There are five cities. It should appear in all of them an equal number of times.

VCHS hosts the EDC in 2012.
Fargo's Scheels arena hosts the EDC in 2013.

Valley City's advantage here is significantly bigger than Fargo North's in the following year.

[theman]

Way to show your Fargo arrogance. Apparently, it's exactly as I said. Fargo and Grand Forks are the only towns good enough to host tournaments.

Maybe the two of you should have your own league too. After all, we're not good enough to host, maybe we're not good enough to play you either.

+1 for the arrogance comment.
Bruin44 is so incredibly biased towards a South opinion that it's hard to take that person serious.

[Indy5]

The EDC should be in Fargo every year. It has the best lodging, shopping, dining, and facilities. Plus it cares more than Grand Forks does, which is the only other one to put up any argument. The town of Valley City would not hold the people that come in. The towns of Wahpeton and Devils Lake wouldn't either. It's just like how the WDA should always be in Fargo. Minot could make a case for rotation, but they don't have the motels. Plus, The dining is much better in Bismarck. There's just more room there. Minot is too crowded with oil.