Nik Savageau

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Nik Savageau

Postby roundem6 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:03 pm

Say what you want about Hanstad, Schreiner, whoever. Savageau is hands down best player in the state IMO. I would like to hear some 2nd opinions.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby Indy5 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:22 pm

I think you haven't seen Hanstad play because there is no way you can't say he's the best player in the state. As for everyone else, Savageau might be the second best player in the state but certainly not the best.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby roundem6 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:15 pm

Part of being a great player is making the players around you better and raising them up. Savageau lost 3-4 of the guys starting with him last year and they are now 10-1 at the top of EDC. Dickinson is 4-6 (7th in WDA) plus only 2 of those wins were against ND teams. (Andddd I have seen Joe play, last year in state when he was pushin 40). Oh and forgot to mention Nik hasnt lost to Turtle Mountain twice this year.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby Flip » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:36 pm

College coaches would disagree with you.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby Indy5 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:51 pm

roundem6 wrote:Part of being a great player is making the players around you better and raising them up. Savageau lost 3-4 of the guys starting with him last year and they are now 10-1 at the top of EDC. Dickinson is 4-6 (7th in WDA) plus only 2 of those wins were against ND teams. (Andddd I have seen Joe play, last year in state when he was pushin 40). Oh and forgot to mention Nik hasnt lost to Turtle Mountain twice this year.

Even if Savageau lost more players, he still has more help around him than Hanstad does. Hanstad is sometimes a one man team (sometimes). Also the EDC is WAY weaker than the WDA. As for the Turtle Mountain comment, Hanstad had good performances both games but his team didn't help him out enough.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby roundem6 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:59 pm

This is true EDC is way weaker but I think North did beat Belcourt by about 40. As for the college comment, Im sorry I forgot that all posts on this site are about college basketball. Who cares if Joe is the best "prospect," I still think Nik is the best HIGH SCHOOL player.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby balla45 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:30 pm

This is one of the stupidest things I have ever read. Sorry Nik, you know I think you are good, but this is a joke. Savi puts up great numbers and gets wins, this is true. Hanstad gets double teamed away from the ball and triple or quadruple teamed when he has it in his hands. Let the two of them switch teams and Joseph would be putting up, AT LEAST, 30 points, 12 rebounds, 5 assists, every night out.

Nik has the advantage of having the ball in his hands almost every possession. Hanstad's team isn't even good enough to get him the ball. There is nothing he can do about it.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby roundem6 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:43 pm

Sounds like a personal problem. So, since his team can't give him the ball and put up these POTENTIAL numbers you talk about, that still puts him on a pedestal above all of the state. Quadrupled teamed really? Id like to see 4 guys on 1. Although I know he gets boxed all the time. Who cares what he could possibly do if he cant do it due to his team/defense/etc.? In March I'd like to see a Hanstad v. Savageau matchup since this topic has quickly turned into it.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby roundem6 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:44 pm

Granted Joe and his Midgets have to get there first.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby balla45 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:54 pm

He is leading the state in scoring going against junk defenses every night. 4 guys on 1 is accurate. I watched him against BHS and Mandan.

Joe's numbers now are better than Nik's anyway. Leading the state in scoring, 7 rebounds, a few assists. Nik is around 22ish 5 and 5. I will take Joe over Nik any day of the week. I will take North over Dickinson, but Joe is much better than Nik.

Also, I can easily argue that Kielpinski's 17 10 and 3 are just as impressive as Nik's 22ish 5 and 5. As Joe and Bryan play against quality teams night in and night out, while Nik gets to play Central, Wahpeton, Shanley, Devil's Lake, and Fargo South.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby balla45 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:54 pm

I am going to lift. I eagerly await your response to my last post.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby Flip » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:59 pm

roundem6 wrote: As for the college comment, Im sorry I forgot that all posts on this site are about college basketball. Who cares if Joe is the best "prospect," I still think Nik is the best HIGH SCHOOL player.

Sorry I should have been more clear. College coaches would say Hanstad is a better HIGH SCHOOL player.
roundem6 wrote:I would like to hear some 2nd opinions.

You didn't want to hear 2nd opinions you wanted to argue with anyone that has one.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby roundem6 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:12 pm

Flip wrote:
roundem6 wrote: As for the college comment, Im sorry I forgot that all posts on this site are about college basketball. Who cares if Joe is the best "prospect," I still think Nik is the best HIGH SCHOOL player.

Sorry I should have been more clear. College coaches would say Hanstad is a better HIGH SCHOOL player.
roundem6 wrote:I would like to hear some 2nd opinions.

You didn't want to hear 2nd opinions you wanted to argue with anyone that has one.


I dont see the problem in arguing. Its clear to me that the majority of the people on here, and in the state for that matter, would say Hanstad right away. BK and Savy comparison is not a fair one IMO so I wont go into that. Anddd "Joe never gets the ball," Nik Savageau 13.9 shots/game; Joe Hanstad 16.5 shots/game. Field Goal %- Nik Savageau 50.9% Joe Hanstad 46.9%. 3 point shooting- Nik Savageau 39.5% Joe Hanstad 30.7%. Free throws- Nik Savageau 76.3% Joe Hanstad 75%. Im not really sure what this all means but it kind of looks like Joe gets the ball a little :shock:
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby roundem6 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:17 pm

balla45 wrote:He is leading the state in scoring going against junk defenses every night. 4 guys on 1 is accurate. I watched him against BHS and Mandan.

Joe's numbers now are better than Nik's anyway. Leading the state in scoring, 7 rebounds, a few assists. Nik is around 22ish 5 and 5. I will take Joe over Nik any day of the week. I will take North over Dickinson, but Joe is much better than Nik.

Also, I can easily argue that Kielpinski's 17 10 and 3 are just as impressive as Nik's 22ish 5 and 5. As Joe and Bryan play against quality teams night in and night out, while Nik gets to play Central, Wahpeton, Shanley, Devil's Lake, and Fargo South.


I also was not aware that St. Mary's, Williston, Dickinson, Minot, and Turtle Mountain were quality teams. If thats the case, North is 2-0 vs. quality teams of the WDA.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby uncheels » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:22 pm

Nik and Joe are both amazing. Following Luke but i would have to go with JOE HANSTAD.Being a junior and all.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby balla45 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:52 pm

16.5 shots per game is not enough for Hanstad. Nik is a point guard and shouldn't need to shoot as much, and he gets a much higher shot quality, because he can't be triple teamed when he gets the ball, because his teammates are good.

Joe has yet to play Saint Mary's. Minot is a quality team, they are not getting wins, but they play hard nosed defense. Dickinson should be called team Hanstad. Williston might not be high quality, but they do have 2 legitimate college basketball players.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby Indy5 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:15 pm

roundem6 wrote:
Flip wrote:
roundem6 wrote: As for the college comment, Im sorry I forgot that all posts on this site are about college basketball. Who cares if Joe is the best "prospect," I still think Nik is the best HIGH SCHOOL player.

Sorry I should have been more clear. College coaches would say Hanstad is a better HIGH SCHOOL player.
roundem6 wrote:I would like to hear some 2nd opinions.

You didn't want to hear 2nd opinions you wanted to argue with anyone that has one.


I dont see the problem in arguing. Its clear to me that the majority of the people on here, and in the state for that matter, would say Hanstad right away. BK and Savy comparison is not a fair one IMO so I wont go into that. Anddd "Joe never gets the ball," Nik Savageau 13.9 shots/game; Joe Hanstad 16.5 shots/game. Field Goal %- Nik Savageau 50.9% Joe Hanstad 46.9%. 3 point shooting- Nik Savageau 39.5% Joe Hanstad 30.7%. Free throws- Nik Savageau 76.3% Joe Hanstad 75%. Im not really sure what this all means but it kind of looks like Joe gets the ball a little :shock:

Like Balla has said, Savageau gets higher quality shots because of his teamates and being the point he can't be triple teamed so that negates that stat. As far as three point shooting, Hanstad is more of a slaher than a three point shooter but still a good percentage based on the type on D people put on him. He won't be getting open looks hardly ever. And as for free throws, they're 1.3% off so I don't think that really matters.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby roundem6 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:38 pm

Ok well if he is getting tripled then what is the point of taking 16, almost 17, shots a game?
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby Indy5 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:03 pm

Because if you are the best player in the state, are you going to go some games were you shoot once or twice all game? NO! Your going to get the best look you can get and try to knock it down. And when I said he doesn't get open looks, I meant he can't come off a screen and be wide open like some people. He can still get by people and have decent driving lanes occasionally. He also is good enough to make the contested jumper.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby roundem6 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:46 pm

So you're telling me Joe goes into a game, there are 3 guys on him, and he goes well im the best player in state Im gonna start throwin em up. Also, If you want to blame the stat differences between the two on "quadruple teams,"then why does Joe average less than 2 assists a game. If there were 3 guys on Nik he would have 20 assists a game. You also make it sound like Savy doesnt face any defense, I'd like to see the day Nik is wide open off a screen.

I realize Hanstad is a very talented player, I just dont think enough respect is given to Savageau. Everyone puts Hanstad on another level, above the competition, and Savageau is just a "pretty good player" in your minds, even after I provided the stats comparing the 2. But only time will tell, State tournament: Hanstad v. Savageau PLEASE.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby balla45 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:35 am

You will agree with this analogy.

Kobe Bryant (Hanstad) is better than Rajon Rondo (Savageau) and Lamarcus Aldridge (Kielpinski). If Kobe, Rajon, or Lamarcus played in the WDA or EDC, they would be so much better than the competition that stats no longer matter. That is the case here. Hanstad, Savageau, and Kielpinski are on completely different levels than almost every other player in the state.

If the average player is a 4 out of 10, Hanstad is a 9, Nik and Bryan are 8s. But because they are so much better than the people they play, they are all able to dominate.

In my mind, Savageau is a good enough player to turn down a preferred walk on offer at NDSU and go to Sioux Falls, which is really good. To add to that, I think he is better than the point guard that NDSU took last year. There is no doubt in my mind that Nik is one of the most talented North Dakota players I have seen, but Joe will most likely go down as the best Class A player in North Dakota's history.

On your comment that Joe should get more assists, you need to watch his team play. I have watched him get quadrupled team, and his teammates not be intelligent enough to move to the open area. He also has no shooters on his team, so passing to them for an open 3 isn't a viable way to get assists, and like I said, teams I have seen stick 2 defenders on him and stack the lane, so he can't get assists to cutters, because the lane is clogged. The only way he gets quality shots are from out of bounds plays, when the defender overplays the pass and he gets a 1 on 1 situation, or when he gets the defensive rebound and beats the other team down the court for the pull up jumper.

Against Mandan, all of his points came from being fouled away from the ball, pull up jumpers on the break, picking people's pocket, or hitting fadeaways over 2 defenders. Same thing against BHS, but he got an easy 2 on an out of bounds play.

I have not seen Nik this year, but I find it hard to believe that he is doubled every time he touches the ball, and if he was, Nick Schultz is a capable finisher and big target, and he has some shooters. Joe plays on a team that starts 3 point guards and Moody, with no legitimate shooter. Moody shoots a high percentage, but he takes maybe 1 or 2 attempts a game.

You also compared Nik's stats to Joe's against similar competition. I think Nik had 25 12 9 and 6 against Belcourt and I do not remember what he had against Minot. Hanstad has put up 32 and 8 against Belcourt, and 29 and 11. He had 20 or 22 against Minot. So these games don't show in any way that Nik was any more impressive against Belcourt than Joe was.

Also, what happens at state won't matter. It will be Hanstad and no one against Nik and the Fargo North Spartans. Hanstad will not look more impressive than Nik, because while he may have 25 or 30 points and at least 10 rebounds, Nik will be able to get his 25 or so pretty easily against Jarl or a Kessel, and having a 6'5'' guy will ensure that he gets at least 5 assists.

Something you will notice about Hanstad is that he will find a way to adjust, and I will be SHOCKED, if he doesn't have a double double in every game he plays in for the rest of the season. Something tells me that with his lowered ability to score, he will find a way to stand out in an area of the game that he can control. I will not be surprised if he averages 25 points and 12-14 rebounds for all of the games after his away game at Mandan. And as Nik will be the first to tell, assists are not under the passers control. If they were, Nik would have averaged about 8 last year, and would be averaging many more than 5 this year.


Again, the argument can easily be made that Kielpinski is better than Savageau. 17 10 and 3 while shooting around 68% is just as, if not more impressive than Savageau's 22 5 and 5.

All that said, Hanstad, Savageau, and Kielpinski are "on another level" "above the competition." These are the only upperclassmen, besides Luke, who received D1 interest, and time will show that Hanstad is successful at a D1, while Nik and Bryan are successful at a D2.

Again
Joe Hanstad ********* 9 stars
Nik Savageau ********8 stars
Bryan Kielpinski ********8 stars
Luke Schreiner*******7 stars
Jalen Finley*******7 stars
Josh Rodenbiker*******7 stars
Tyler Eiken*******7 stars

This is how I look at the current Class A basketball scene and the top players.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby Indy5 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:43 am

I'm almost positive Hanstad had 27 when he played Minot at the Aud. The thing that amazes me about Hanstad is that he has such a good feel for the game that although it seems he could take over and score 40, he makes his team better (as much as he can) and scores 27. 27 is usually great and it still is but its such a quiet 27 that you barely notice he scored that much.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby roundem6 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:17 am

Nik's "off" game of the year, if you want to call it that, was against minot. 10 10 8 and 5 steals. He is a very complete player and early in the topic I was just dumbfounded that you guys considered this the "stupidest thing ever." Also, when talking about the assists what I did not take into account was your explanation of Dickinson's inabiltiy to take advantage of the double teams.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby Indy5 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:32 am

We are in no way saying that Savageau is not an amazing player because he is. He's one of the best ND point guards I've ever seen but Hanstad is the best ND player I've ever seen and I've seen my share of good ones as we know Balla has also.
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Re: Nik Savageau

Postby Indy5 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:42 am

Here's a little checklist for you.

Size, Strength, Rebounding, and Scoring:

Hanstad X
Savageau

Teamates:
Hanstad
Savageau X

Appearances on the front page on North Dakota Preps:

Hanstad X
Savageau

I think the last one tells a lot. :D
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