Red River basketball???

[bbjunkie]

I was in Grand Forks last week and had heard that Red River was going to be one of the best teams in the East. Right now i can't imagine that they are....I watched them play West Fargo and then Bemidji. They played pretty well early against West Fargo and Bemidji, I think they had leads at halftime in both games. The schreiner kid had some moments but had trouble in the second half when teams adjusted. i would have to say Red River did no adjusting at halftime. They seem to run or call out many difeent offensive plays but they it seems they are all designed to free up a guard for a jump shot...no easy baskets for them. They did not do a very good job getting the ball inside unless schreiner would penetrate and dish..he did do that a few times but hat left 4 teamates standing around watching. Not much offense run to get thmpson posted up or free for a they. The games i saw teams adjusted to his good first halves and really made him a non-factor in the second half and he really seems to be the only option the coaches are working to get shots.

The defense of scheme was astounding. They are having the wings(guards), guys guarding the ball overplay, i mean really overplay their person to force them to drive he ball to the block..four feet from the basket, you know the colored block on the floor for freethrows..ya...they allow this person to dribble to 4 feet not to the baseline to the basket. Once there one of their big guys tries to take a charge or leaves his guy...red river is not all that big and besides Robb, no real shot blockers...so they give up four foot shot to the wing or if big guy leaves to soon, a layup to the other teams opposing big guy. Nelson from West Fargo.. Looked awesome as Farkas beat whoever was guarding him and he either got layup or Nelson got a bunny. Against Bemidji, their scorer just got funneled to the block and elevated over for two points.

For sure, the coach talked about his three guards being one of the tops in the state if not the top in the state...needs to realize you must play defense! He must have forgot about the kid at north and the West Fargo guards as a whole were better than Red River. And there is Wolf at Devils Lake and Rod at shanley...right? it was the guards from Bemidji that got Red River too. It almost lloks like the rest on defense so they have energy for offense. Battle played against Bemidji and he was rusty so hopefully he will get better but their defense is non-existent, and alot of turnovers but that happens, in my opinion, when you stand around and try to create off the dribble.

Schreiner is the real deal offensively but it seems that all kinds of offensive plays but only one, very ordinary. lackluster defense..their guards get beat a lot...seems to me when i watched them play last year at state it was kind of the same thing. Offense no defense.

To be more positive, I thought West Fargo looked pretty good. They did not get discouraged early when they wee down. They ran pretty simple offense but ran it well. They got a ton of really good shots in the second half. Their coach made some really good adjustments at half and his team executed very well in second half. They are not that big but they distributed the ball well and played good defense. It looks like they might be one of the best teams in the East. Farkas and Nelson were good and Hoy and Flatin play defense...to be fair, the games i saw was won by the team that made adjustments and played defense and that was not Red River. For Red River it can only get better...right? Wow, a disappointment for sure at this point. Looks like a long season.

[ndbasketballfan007]

Its way to early in the season to be this critical. They have yet to have a full healthy squad, and when they begin to shoot better than 18% from the 3pt line they will be hard to guard. But they need to find a post who can score some and defend the other post. Last time we checked the important games are yet to be played. As far as adjustments they are being made (i am sure) but players need to step up. Last year Red River played real good in the beginning of the season and the end of the season. and hit a wall in the middle. Do you remember when RR beat those teams at EDC last year. Dont start pointing fingers because RR wil be fine.

[bbjunkie]

I was not trying o be too ctirical with RR I had just heard they wee going to be one of the best in the east. I think losing to west fargo on your home floor can be considered a "big game" and they had leads at half-time of both those games and Minot gave it to them and Minot is not very good by their record since beating RR. I did not know anyone was injured? Battle was back and everyone on their roster was dressed and played...Who is not healthy?

And with the offnses they run, they will be hard pressed to shoot beter from outside, they run an offense where you need to beat your guy off dribble and everyone else just stands around. i did not see them at EDC, I did see them at state. They beat Devils lake and who and lost to wapheton in edc championship...then got schooled twice at state. I saw lots of talent, but i did not see a good plan on how to use that talent or any emphasis at all on defense. They have several offensive plays already and no defense.

I just thought they did not look very good and if they are supposed to be the "best" backcourt in the state they better wake up and play some defense. I hope they play better.

Maybe they just needed a snowstorm to wake them up?

[Indy5]

I was not trying o be too ctirical with RR I had just heard they wee going to be one of the best in the east. I think losing to west fargo on your home floor can be considered a "big game" and they had leads at half-time of both those games and Minot gave it to them and Minot is not very good by their record since beating RR. I did not know anyone was injured? Battle was back and everyone on their roster was dressed and played...Who is not healthy?

And with the offnses they run, they will be hard pressed to shoot beter from outside, they run an offense where you need to beat your guy off dribble and everyone else just stands around. i did not see them at EDC, I did see them at state. They beat Devils lake and who and lost to wapheton in edc championship...then got schooled twice at state. I saw lots of talent, but i did not see a good plan on how to use that talent or any emphasis at all on defense. They have several offensive plays already and no defense.

I just thought they did not look very good and if they are supposed to be the "best" backcourt in the state they better wake up and play some defense. I hope they play better.

Maybe they just needed a snowstorm to wake them up?

That would be called the Dribble Drive motion offense. It was made famous by former Memphis coach(current Kentucky coach) John Calipari.

[bbjunkie]

You used the word motion....only one moving is guy dribbling the ball...and they pretty much stand around on defense too....let's hope they improve..and when does RR get the D1 talent that memphis had or kentucky has and no rings for calapari

[Indy5]

You don't need D1 talent to run the dribble drive. You need some players that can create one on one and some people who can spot up and hit the kick out 3.

[ndsportszone]

The problem is that schreiner handles the ball the most and hardly ever dishes it out to someone who is open, he would rather force a shot with 3 guys on him. RR does not play team ball and that should start with the coach controlling who shoots and how much they shoot. Just because a player can get a shot off, that doesn't mean that they should or that that is the best shot the team can get. Alot of the shots come at the beginning of the shot clock, not after they have run the offense for awhile. We will see if the coach has the team playing better team ball and if schreiner wants the team to win or if he is only worried about his stats.

[balla45]

The problem is that schreiner handles the ball the most and hardly ever dishes it out to someone who is open, he would rather force a shot with 3 guys on him. RR does not play team ball and that should start with the coach controlling who shoots and how much they shoot. Just because a player can get a shot off, that doesn't mean that they should or that that is the best shot the team can get. Alot of the shots come at the beginning of the shot clock, not after they have run the offense for awhile. We will see if the coach has the team playing better team ball and if schreiner wants the team to win or if he is only worried about his stats.

Schreiner only cares about winning. Case in point, if his team loses a game, he will not tell you how much he scored. I site the game where he had 39 as an example.

[ndsportszone]

Schreiner only cares about his stats. Case in point, last years state he was i think 16 - 55 and he shot almost every time he got the ball even thou he was not making them. As far as your case in point, that is what I'm talking about, he shoots the ball too much and does not get the team involved like he should. Look at Hanstad and Savageau they get their teammates involved in the game by passing first and shooting second....they make their teams better by playing team ball.

[balla45]

Schreiner only cares about his stats. Case in point, last years state he was i think 16 - 55 and he shot almost every time he got the ball even thou he was not making them. As far as your case in point, that is what I'm talking about, he shoots the ball too much and does not get the team involved like he should. Look at Hanstad and Savageau they get their teammates involved in the game by passing first and shooting second....they make their teams better by playing team ball.

You are using a 3 game stretch to define Schreiner as a basketball player. If he only cared about his stats, he would stop shooting after he missed a few, because his shooting percentage was rapidly dropping. Is it not possible that the offensive philosophy of their team is based around his ability to score? That seems very likely, seeing that he is a 4 year starter.

Comparing Schreiner to Hanstad or Savageau is not a fair comparison. Hanstad is on a different level than any player in the state, and Savageau is playing along with, and always has had a few capable inside players. Schreiner's team is guard based, while Savageau's team always seems to have two or three 6'5'' kids to dump it off to. Schreiner does not have that luxury, and at times must score big for his team to win. There will be games where Savageau is off, and there may be a game or two where Hanstad isn't playing to the best of his ability, but I doubt anyone will be calling them out as selfish players.

Have you ever seen Hanstad play basketball? Pass first and shoot second describes him in no way.

[ndsportszone]

I am not using just three games to base my opinion, I have been watching RR basketball for awhile now. And you are right he does not care about % only how many he scores.
Anyway my point is that in order for RR to beat the good teams, they will need to play team ball and not allow 1 guy to shoot the majority of the shots. If they do and that individual is not shooting well, they will not beat most of the good teams.
And you are right I only saw Hanstad play against RR last year at state and he did a nice job passing and not forcing his shots.

[balla45]

I am not using just three games to base my opinion, I have been watching RR basketball for awhile now. And you are right he does not care about % only how many he scores.
Anyway my point is that in order for RR to beat the good teams, they will need to play team ball and not allow 1 guy to shoot the majority of the shots. If they do and that individual is not shooting well, they will not beat most of the good teams.
And you are right I only saw Hanstad play against RR last year at state and he did a nice job passing and not forcing his shots.

Of all active players, Schreiner has the most career assists by far, and the most in the last 2 years. I don't understand how a player who only cares about scoring could do this.

You are somewhat contradictory in what you post. Schreiner had 39 one game, and he is the reason his team lost, but if he doesn't shoot well and his team loses, it is his fault? Please explain this.

[ndsportszone]

As for being the leader in active players, I would hope so since he has been on varsity for 4 years. Schreiner has the ball in his hands the most and should have the most assists by far.

As far as the one game you keep referring to he did score 39 points and took the majority of the shots, thus not getting the other players into the game and allowing them to contribute. As far as I know 1 doesn't beat 5 in basketball.

And like in state and many other games I have personally watched when he is allowed to shot that many times, RR usually doesn't win.

You seem to think you know alot about RR basketball, how many games have you watched in person?

[balla45]

As for being the leader in active players, I would hope so since he has been on varsity for 4 years. Schreiner has the ball in his hands the most and should have the most assists by far.

As far as the one game you keep referring to he did score 39 points and took the majority of the shots, thus not getting the other players into the game and allowing them to contribute. As far as I know 1 doesn't beat 5 in basketball.

And like in state and many other games I have personally watched when he is allowed to shot that many times, RR usually doesn't win.

You seem to think you know alot about RR basketball, how many games have you watched in person?

Which is why I also said in the last two years. Nik, Josh, and Joe all played the last two years.

I don't think I know alot about Red River basketball. I know Schreiner's personality and his style of play.

In person, I have watched 5 or 6 games, and on film, 2. Is that satisfactory?

There is probably a reason that he has been starting for 4 years and gets to take all of those shots. My question to you is, if Luke was continually taking bad shots, and this was negatively effecting his team, why wouldn't be be bench.

[bbjunkie]

maybe the question about why doesn't sit on the bench is a coaching question? Last year, he averaged like 33 minutes a game..and Nik was averaging 22....I think Luke has been part of a system that "creates a star" and the coach loses all control over the team. That is what I saw at state last year and when I saw RR play bemidji, when bemidji got up 7 points in last 2 minutes. the coach sat down and gave up on his team. It was sad.

It appears that RR coaches don't really have control and don't have a lot of dscipline within their team and that is a refelction of the coaches.

[balla45]

maybe the question about why doesn't sit on the bench is a coaching question? Last year, he averaged like 33 minutes a game..and Nik was averaging 22....I think Luke has been part of a system that "creates a star" and the coach loses all control over the team. That is what I saw at state last year and when I saw RR play bemidji, when bemidji got up 7 points in last 2 minutes. the coach sat down and gave up on his team. It was sad.

It appears that RR coaches don't really have control and don't have a lot of dscipline within their team and that is a refelction of the coaches.

Again, I don't understand why Luke is usually compared to Nik. They come from vastly different programs. Nik didn't play in a program that required him to play the entire game, but he played much more than 22 minutes per. The Fargo North stats posted for minutes are incredibly inaccurate if you look online. In my experience playing and watching, when North was in a close game, Savageau did not go out.

[ndbasketballfan007]

I didnt see the game but RR must have played pretty good to beat Jamestown.

[bbjunkie]

Must have because Jamestown has a couple of quality wins. Only time will tell with RR, and i think the criticism of Luke is largely a criticism of the system in which he plays in not of him as a player. If the coach tells you to shoot then you should shoot. And he is usually not on the receiving end of a substitution when he struggles. Hope they can turn it around. it will be interesting to see how they do against North on the road.

[bbjunkie]

Was just looking at RR stats....is that right?? Hickel as 37 points and 38 rebounds in 24 minutes? And he doesn't start?? He is shooting 17-20 from the field? Leads the team in rebounding? Wonder who he is going to have to pay to get more time on the floor.....those stats are great and RR needs a inside guy...why not him? The other guy Lee has like 100 minutes and has 20 rebounds? Just a thought but "put me(hickel) in coach, I'm ready to play"......haha I know it's a baseball song but oh well

[Mighty-Mouse]

Any comments on the game with Fargo North? Is RR coming together?

[ndbasketballfan007]

Red River has played well there last two games. BBjunkie sounds like a friend or a person that maybe has something against RR basketball. Hickle has played well but what games have RR won? The ones he has not started.Those minutes are not right either. Hickle plays just as many minutes when he was starting. BBjunkie get over it

[Mighty-Mouse]

I know RR is a good team. I saw them when they played Minot and they just seemed not to be clicking. I hope they are clicking now.

[bbjunkie]

so...ndbasketballfan...the reason Red River wins and loses depends on whether or not Hickel starts? Good to know it is that simple...And as far as stats go...they are put out by the teams coaches so those of you who say minutes are wrong for north and red river....are there other stats correct? i don't think they would have RR shooting any worse? I did not see North game but looks like Thompson woke up. He is streaky and hope he continues. Anyone know what happened to Robb? he is not even on roster..in team picure? Hurt? Gone?

[balla45]

My thoughts, Battle is back, taking pressure off of Thompson and Schreiner, and Schreiner's messed up hand is fixed.

[teamramrod]

battle being back played a huge role in the north game, he may not light up the scoreboard like schreiner and thompson but he knows his role and could be a big player down the stretch