State Tourney

Class AA Boys
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Please do not post just to complain about players, coaches, teams, officials, fans, or anyone else. Lets all try to demonstrate the spirit of good sportsmanship. Posts may be edited or deleted that do not comply.

Re: State Tourney

Postby T$$ » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:02 pm

The Schwab wrote:
T$$ wrote:Here are my thoughts on this topic. 1. Darin Mattern could care less about taking 3rd or 4th. Anything less than a title is disappointing. 2. Don't complain about wild fans, they are what make the game fun. Sportsman ship should be promoted but honestly you can't have it both ways. 3. In my opinion the best team won the title.


The only thing I agree with is that the best team won the title, if you are coaching you SHOULD CARE ABOUT EVERY SINGLE GAME. And wild fans don't make the game fun, at all, I'm sorry but chanting "you're not that good" at the first player in the history of class A (been around for about 100 years) to score over 2000 points is probably the most ridiculous thing I've heard. What ever happened to the days when you supported your own team, not have to degrade the opponent? Whatever happened to crowds getting technicals for taunting, there should have been 1 for sure in the title game. If you want to harass the players, go to college. In high school we teach kids to be respectful and think before they act, but that should go out the window when it comes to sports? Give me a break, someone from the administration should have stepped in, both sides probably needed to be talked too. But I guess when you have adults who should know better that are yelling at a 16-18 year old kid and cheering against them (happened more than once around where I was sitting) we shouldn't expect the kids to be respectful. I think we need to examine the values and morals of what we are trying to model for our kids. Just my two cents.
Schwab, I agree with you on coaching to win every game, but I am just telling it like it is, I am guessing they didnt care. As for fans, I feel many students and fans sections are non existent in many gyms throughout the state. I would rather see some passion and even a little heckling over being at a game in an empty gym. I wasn't at the games, but I am sure the BHS students were over the top. My point is I prefer that over no fan support. I feel it gives ammo to the opponent in most cases.
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Re: State Tourney

Postby Baller » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:20 am

I feel like the East schools were shocked by the sportsmanship of the West schools. There has been a strong push for sportsmanship in the East to point where the students can't do much of anything. They are not allowed to call out other players, yell at refs, do the scoreboard cheer, or put down the other team. The Fargo AD's have been really strict on this. I know there are always a few people yelling but there is no way an East team would get away with any of it. Starting lineups in Fargo have to be alternating so that it doesnt seem like there is favoritism of one team. Basically, it has taken away any sort of home court advantage. I was SHOCKED that there wasnt alternating starting lineups at the state tournament.
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Re: State Tourney

Postby Flip » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:51 pm

Baller wrote:I feel like the East schools were shocked by the sportsmanship of the West schools. There has been a strong push for sportsmanship in the East to point where the students can't do much of anything. They are not allowed to call out other players, yell at refs, do the scoreboard cheer, or put down the other team. The Fargo AD's have been really strict on this. I know there are always a few people yelling but there is no way an East team would get away with any of it. Starting lineups in Fargo have to be alternating so that it doesnt seem like there is favoritism of one team. Basically, it has taken away any sort of home court advantage. I was SHOCKED that there wasnt alternating starting lineups at the state tournament.

what about the posters?
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Re: State Tourney

Postby Indy5 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:20 pm

Sounds like the east needs to lighten up a little then. And I absolutely hate alternating starting lineups.
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Re: State Tourney

Postby Hinsa » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:10 pm

I saw lots of comments on this thread about the timing of the foul call at the end of the BHS-Century game. I didn not see the play. I just want to clarify that the rule book states that a foul is a shooting foul if a foul is committed during the shooting act, including the motion preceding the shot. What that means is that a foul committed while the offensive player is in motion that normally preceeds a shot, it is a shooting foul. That can include a foul during the steps that are taken on a normal drive to the basket, a foul while a player is raising the ball into a shooting position, etc.

It is a gray area that is subject to interpretation, but that is the rule as it reads in the book. I don't know if this changes anyone's opinion on whether the foul was a shooting foul in that game or not, I'm just pointing out the wording and intent of the rule.
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Re: State Tourney

Postby eyeinthesky » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:46 am

Hinsa wrote:I saw lots of comments on this thread about the timing of the foul call at the end of the BHS-Century game. I didn not see the play. I just want to clarify that the rule book states that a foul is a shooting foul if a foul is committed during the shooting act, including the motion preceding the shot. What that means is that a foul committed while the offensive player is in motion that normally preceeds a shot, it is a shooting foul. That can include a foul during the steps that are taken on a normal drive to the basket, a foul while a player is raising the ball into a shooting position, etc.

It is a gray area that is subject to interpretation, but that is the rule as it reads in the book. I don't know if this changes anyone's opinion on whether the foul was a shooting foul in that game or not, I'm just pointing out the wording and intent of the rule.


Hinsa has it exactly right. With 2.4 seconds left, and going the full length of the court, a pass was made to just shy of half court and then another pass was made to a teammate. With the amount of time left and the time it takes to make two passes of that length what else do you think the BHS kid is doing besides shooting almost instantly upon receiving the ball?!?

The correct call was made and it took a veteran official to make it. If he didn't call that a foul then there would be something here to talk about.
Last edited by eyeinthesky on Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: State Tourney

Postby 1112cc » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:05 pm

Pay attention to the coaches for century when it is time for the hand shakes after the game. If Century wins the coach will go through the line and shake the other coaches hand and all the opposing player. If he loses he only shakes the opposing coaches hand and then walks off the court. real class. The guy may win games but what is he REALLY teaching his player about becoming an adult.
In the State consolation game between St. Mary's and Mandan, a mandan player was called for an intentional foul, coach Horner took the player out for the rest of the 1st half, and would not let him play the 2nd half until he apologized to the SM coach and the SM player. He is not just trying to win games but he is also trying to turn his players into good men. Something could be learned from that.
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Re: State Tourney

Postby Indy5 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:59 pm

Hinsa wrote:I saw lots of comments on this thread about the timing of the foul call at the end of the BHS-Century game. I didn not see the play. I just want to clarify that the rule book states that a foul is a shooting foul if a foul is committed during the shooting act, including the motion preceding the shot. What that means is that a foul committed while the offensive player is in motion that normally preceeds a shot, it is a shooting foul. That can include a foul during the steps that are taken on a normal drive to the basket, a foul while a player is raising the ball into a shooting position, etc.

It is a gray area that is subject to interpretation, but that is the rule as it reads in the book. I don't know if this changes anyone's opinion on whether the foul was a shooting foul in that game or not, I'm just pointing out the wording and intent of the rule.

I don't think most refs know this rule. I am really annoyed by the lack of "continuations" called. Seems like they think you have to be releasing the ball as you get fouled.

I think high school refs try so hard not to be like the NBA that they make officiating very poor. I've seen so many times where travels are called and it's not even a travel. This is completely ridiculous to me. If anything, it's better to let a questionable one go, than it is to call a non-travel a travel. Same thing with shooting fouls. If you drive and get bumped then shoot, and it's not total ridiculous and crazy, it's a shooting foul. What else do you think they're doing with the ball in the middle of the lane?
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Re: State Tourney

Postby balla45 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:12 pm

@eyeinthesky, it is the belief of many that Quist was fouling Schafer before he caught the ball, and continued to hold him arm as he caught the ball, and as he entered his shooting motion. Again, Century had a foul to give, and it was a smart play on their part to take a foul. However, due to fouls usually being let go at the end of games, it wasn't called until Schafer began his shooting motion, as officials will usually let a lot of contact go in the last 2.4 seconds of a semi final game.
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Re: State Tourney

Postby T$$ » Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:02 pm

In seeing the play I feel the best thing to call would have been a foul before the shot. However keep in mind the game still would not have been over. I personally liked the call because the contact was SO excessive. I give Schafer credit for making all 3 foul shots as that is no gimmie. Lets say he makes 1 of 3 there is no further discussion.
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Re: State Tourney

Postby eyeinthesky » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:25 am

balla45 wrote:@eyeinthesky, it is the belief of many that Quist was fouling Schafer before he caught the ball, and continued to hold him arm as he caught the ball, and as he entered his shooting motion. Again, Century had a foul to give, and it was a smart play on their part to take a foul. However, due to fouls usually being let go at the end of games, it wasn't called until Schafer began his shooting motion, as officials will usually let a lot of contact go in the last 2.4 seconds of a semi final game.


I see what you are saying. With the amount of time and length of the court that it took to make the two passes I would argue that was not a smart play on their part to try and foul Schafer. With the foul to give they should have fouled Werner near half court if they were wanting to foul anybody.

Anytime you choose to foul somebody with nearly no time left on the clock and they are in a position to do nothing else but shoot the ball (clock under 1 second) you risk the official making the correct call. I feel this is what happened in this situation. This foul was to extreme to just let go at the end of a game.
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Re: State Tourney

Postby balla45 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:47 am

@eyeinthesky again on the Werner foul. I believe that was part of the plan, but if that foul was not called, the foul on Schafer was to be done before the catch so that would be called. They had two opportunities to foul. Werner was fouled after he passed the ball, and the foul on Schafer was called a bit after it happens. But that is basketball.

@T$$ I somewhat agree with you. However, the kid is a 90+ (too lazy to calculate it) career free throw percentage shooter. I would say everyone in the building thought those were going in, but credit him for making the big shots.
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Re: State Tourney

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:16 am

balla45, question for you and just an observation. Schafer is a lefty, correct? Thought I remember him at the free throw line shooting left but not positive. Only watched the play in question during the actual game, haven't seen any replays. One thing that came to mind right away was the defender might not have realized at the moment of the foul that he was a lefty. He was defending from the offensive player's left side and was simply grabbing his arm for the foul, however Schafer being a lefty pulls up his shooting arm and makes the foul look more like a shooting foul. Once again just an observation and was wondering your thoughts.
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Re: State Tourney

Postby balla45 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:21 am

Quist knows Schafer is a lefty.

Good point though. I think Schafer did a great job selling the play.
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Re: State Tourney

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:35 am

Was pretty sure as much as they play one another he would know and didn't mean any disrespect towards a player.
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