Kick or Wilhelm

[O_Snap]

There is no such thing as a neutral Mandan person.  Who are you kidding?  You hate the "Demons".  You all do.  That was apparent from JB's comment to reporters during his pre-game interview in Fargo before the semi-final game against Williston.

I guess you know me right...?  Since I was going for BHS since I thought they had a great turnaround from the start of the season... And they were very deserving to win it... But yeah there is no neutral... Do you think I would of drove to Fargo to watch the games if I hated every team lol grow up please....

 

I was also pulling for Williston since they beat Mandan out to go to state.. Always gotta go for the team that knocks you out!

[bbfollower]

I do not recall that Justin said that he didn't like BHS. He simply said when asked what team he was going for and was on the spot, "Gotta go with Williston."

[O_Snap]

I do not recall that Justin said that he didn't like BHS. He simply said when asked what team he was going for and was on the spot, "Gotta go with Williston."

Agreed..

[O_Snap]

Ok.. I'm gonna catch heat for this but... I voted for Wilhelm just because every game that i've seen of Tate Kick it seems as though he does not try all the time.. I see him standing at the 3 point line watching sometimes or walking up the court often... Just seems like he could be even greater if he hustled a little!

[Wrestler]

Kick or Wilhelm?

Lets see, based on season stats, a state title, coming thru in the 2nd half of the state title game, shooting 50% vs. 29% at the state tournament, better team overall record seems pretty obvious to most. 

I'll take Kick.  He is much harder to stop one on one, he has a huge wingspan, he is smart (basing this on the forced shots by wilhelm, kick rarely forces shots, maybe because he can create good shots with his quickness). 

And by the way, lets stop voting at halftime of the championship game for tournament MVP.  There is a reason they wait til they find out who wins before they declare MVP's in pro sports.  Because there is Value in winning the championship.

So if Wilhelm goes 20-20 and scores 45 poinst, pulls down 15 rebounds, and hands out 10 assists, he didn't have a good game as long as DHS wins??? Once again, I'm not saying that Wilhelm had a good championship game, but since we are not comparing teams here, Wilhelm was tourney MVP. Kick wasn't even voted unanomious selection. Yes, Kick's team won, but that is not what we are discussing.

The 29% is not a championship game number, it is the entire tournament (20-68).  What are your excuses for his poor shooting in all 3 games.  Were his teammates playing so poorly in those games, that he had to force shots then too.  Did I say poor shooting, I thought we were talking about the MVP.  How many points do you think Kick would have had with 68 shots? 

If Wilhelm had those numbers, there would be not debate, but he didn't, so we are having this debate, and you are losing that.

And lets find out what moron didn't vote him on the all tourney team.  It wasn't you was it baller.  Do you really think Kick wouldn't have been MVP if they would have voted after the game.  Wilhelm scored 5 points in the second half and lost, his stock dropped and Kick would have been MVP.

[Wrestler]

Ok.. I'm gonna catch heat for this but... I voted for Wilhelm just because every game that i've seen of Tate Kick it seems as though he does not try all the time.. I see him standing at the 3 point line watching sometimes or walking up the court often... Just seems like he could be even greater if he hustled a little!

Here is all the heat I will give you osnap.  Some people make hard work look effortless.  It is just his style.  I would also say he is smart and choses certain times to rest, because he doesn't get to sit much, unless McPherson is reffing.  

I understand your observation, but his numbers have to suggest to you that he isn't really lazy.  If a lazy 6'5" guy can lead the league in rebounds, what does that say about the rest of the league?

[baller01]

Kick or Wilhelm?

Lets see, based on season stats, a state title, coming thru in the 2nd half of the state title game, shooting 50% vs. 29% at the state tournament, better team overall record seems pretty obvious to most. 

I'll take Kick.  He is much harder to stop one on one, he has a huge wingspan, he is smart (basing this on the forced shots by wilhelm, kick rarely forces shots, maybe because he can create good shots with his quickness). 

And by the way, lets stop voting at halftime of the championship game for tournament MVP.  There is a reason they wait til they find out who wins before they declare MVP's in pro sports.  Because there is Value in winning the championship.

So if Wilhelm goes 20-20 and scores 45 poinst, pulls down 15 rebounds, and hands out 10 assists, he didn't have a good game as long as DHS wins??? Once again, I'm not saying that Wilhelm had a good championship game, but since we are not comparing teams here, Wilhelm was tourney MVP. Kick wasn't even voted unanomious selection. Yes, Kick's team won, but that is not what we are discussing.

The 29% is not a championship game number, it is the entire tournament (20-68).  What are your excuses for his poor shooting in all 3 games.  Were his teammates playing so poorly in those games, that he had to force shots then too.  Did I say poor shooting, I thought we were talking about the MVP.  How many points do you think Kick would have had with 68 shots? 

If Wilhelm had those numbers, there would be not debate, but he didn't, so we are having this debate, and you are losing that.

And lets find out what moron didn't vote him on the all tourney team.  It wasn't you was it baller.  Do you really think Kick wouldn't have been MVP if they would have voted after the game.  Wilhelm scored 5 points in the second half and lost, his stock dropped and Kick would have been MVP.

Wilhelm had a great 1st half (4-6 from 3 point range if I remember correctly) and a poor second half. As for you thinking Kick had a great second half and brought home the title for DHS, were we watching the same game? It was pretty clear that Fridley dominated BHS the 2nd half and was the main reason DHS won. Kick had a nice finish on that alley-oop play and that wide open 3 at the top.

[Wrestler]

Kick or Wilhelm?

Lets see, based on season stats, a state title, coming thru in the 2nd half of the state title game, shooting 50% vs. 29% at the state tournament, better team overall record seems pretty obvious to most. 

I'll take Kick.  He is much harder to stop one on one, he has a huge wingspan, he is smart (basing this on the forced shots by wilhelm, kick rarely forces shots, maybe because he can create good shots with his quickness). 

And by the way, lets stop voting at halftime of the championship game for tournament MVP.  There is a reason they wait til they find out who wins before they declare MVP's in pro sports.  Because there is Value in winning the championship.

So if Wilhelm goes 20-20 and scores 45 poinst, pulls down 15 rebounds, and hands out 10 assists, he didn't have a good game as long as DHS wins??? Once again, I'm not saying that Wilhelm had a good championship game, but since we are not comparing teams here, Wilhelm was tourney MVP. Kick wasn't even voted unanomious selection. Yes, Kick's team won, but that is not what we are discussing.

The 29% is not a championship game number, it is the entire tournament (20-68).  What are your excuses for his poor shooting in all 3 games.  Were his teammates playing so poorly in those games, that he had to force shots then too.  Did I say poor shooting, I thought we were talking about the MVP.  How many points do you think Kick would have had with 68 shots? 

If Wilhelm had those numbers, there would be not debate, but he didn't, so we are having this debate, and you are losing that.

And lets find out what moron didn't vote him on the all tourney team.  It wasn't you was it baller.  Do you really think Kick wouldn't have been MVP if they would have voted after the game.  Wilhelm scored 5 points in the second half and lost, his stock dropped and Kick would have been MVP.

Wilhelm had a great 1st half (4-6 from 3 point range if I remember correctly) and a poor second half. As for you thinking Kick had a great second half and brought home the title for DHS, were we watching the same game? It was pretty clear that Fridley dominated BHS the 2nd half and was the main reason DHS won. Kick had a nice finish on that alley-oop play and that wide open 3 at the top.

You and the voters like to ignore that 29% from the field for the tournament number.  I am starting to think you are one of the voters and are trying to justify your mistake.

[baller01]

Kick or Wilhelm?

Lets see, based on season stats, a state title, coming thru in the 2nd half of the state title game, shooting 50% vs. 29% at the state tournament, better team overall record seems pretty obvious to most. 

I'll take Kick.  He is much harder to stop one on one, he has a huge wingspan, he is smart (basing this on the forced shots by wilhelm, kick rarely forces shots, maybe because he can create good shots with his quickness). 

And by the way, lets stop voting at halftime of the championship game for tournament MVP.  There is a reason they wait til they find out who wins before they declare MVP's in pro sports.  Because there is Value in winning the championship.

So if Wilhelm goes 20-20 and scores 45 poinst, pulls down 15 rebounds, and hands out 10 assists, he didn't have a good game as long as DHS wins??? Once again, I'm not saying that Wilhelm had a good championship game, but since we are not comparing teams here, Wilhelm was tourney MVP. Kick wasn't even voted unanomious selection. Yes, Kick's team won, but that is not what we are discussing.

The 29% is not a championship game number, it is the entire tournament (20-68).  What are your excuses for his poor shooting in all 3 games.  Were his teammates playing so poorly in those games, that he had to force shots then too.  Did I say poor shooting, I thought we were talking about the MVP.  How many points do you think Kick would have had with 68 shots? 

If Wilhelm had those numbers, there would be not debate, but he didn't, so we are having this debate, and you are losing that.

And lets find out what moron didn't vote him on the all tourney team.  It wasn't you was it baller.  Do you really think Kick wouldn't have been MVP if they would have voted after the game.  Wilhelm scored 5 points in the second half and lost, his stock dropped and Kick would have been MVP.

Wilhelm had a great 1st half (4-6 from 3 point range if I remember correctly) and a poor second half. As for you thinking Kick had a great second half and brought home the title for DHS, were we watching the same game? It was pretty clear that Fridley dominated BHS the 2nd half and was the main reason DHS won. Kick had a nice finish on that alley-oop play and that wide open 3 at the top.

You and the voters like to ignore that 29% from the field for the tournament number.  I am starting to think you are one of the voters and are trying to justify your mistake.

And I'm starting to think that you are a wreslter and know nothing else besides shooting percentages when it comes to comparing players.

[Wrestler]

Kick or Wilhelm?

Lets see, based on season stats, a state title, coming thru in the 2nd half of the state title game, shooting 50% vs. 29% at the state tournament, better team overall record seems pretty obvious to most. 

I'll take Kick.  He is much harder to stop one on one, he has a huge wingspan, he is smart (basing this on the forced shots by wilhelm, kick rarely forces shots, maybe because he can create good shots with his quickness). 

And by the way, lets stop voting at halftime of the championship game for tournament MVP.  There is a reason they wait til they find out who wins before they declare MVP's in pro sports.  Because there is Value in winning the championship.

So if Wilhelm goes 20-20 and scores 45 poinst, pulls down 15 rebounds, and hands out 10 assists, he didn't have a good game as long as DHS wins??? Once again, I'm not saying that Wilhelm had a good championship game, but since we are not comparing teams here, Wilhelm was tourney MVP. Kick wasn't even voted unanomious selection. Yes, Kick's team won, but that is not what we are discussing.

The 29% is not a championship game number, it is the entire tournament (20-68).  What are your excuses for his poor shooting in all 3 games.  Were his teammates playing so poorly in those games, that he had to force shots then too.  Did I say poor shooting, I thought we were talking about the MVP.  How many points do you think Kick would have had with 68 shots? 

If Wilhelm had those numbers, there would be not debate, but he didn't, so we are having this debate, and you are losing that.

And lets find out what moron didn't vote him on the all tourney team.  It wasn't you was it baller.  Do you really think Kick wouldn't have been MVP if they would have voted after the game.  Wilhelm scored 5 points in the second half and lost, his stock dropped and Kick would have been MVP.

Wilhelm had a great 1st half (4-6 from 3 point range if I remember correctly) and a poor second half. As for you thinking Kick had a great second half and brought home the title for DHS, were we watching the same game? It was pretty clear that Fridley dominated BHS the 2nd half and was the main reason DHS won. Kick had a nice finish on that alley-oop play and that wide open 3 at the top.

You and the voters like to ignore that 29% from the field for the tournament number.  I am starting to think you are one of the voters and are trying to justify your mistake.

And I'm starting to think that you are a wreslter and know nothing else besides shooting percentages when it comes to comparing players.

Still ignoring it.

[baller01]

I'm not ignoring the fact that Wilhelm didn't have a good shooting tournament. I'll admit it.."WILHELM DID NOT HAVE A GOOD SHOOTING TOURNAMENT." But just because he didn't have a good shooting state tournament doesn't mean he isn't better then Kick. Kinda funny how all the people that think Kick is better can only use the state tournament to justify that. Who outscored who in all 4 of there matchups???

[paperboy]

Ok.. I'm gonna catch heat for this but... I voted for Wilhelm just because every game that i've seen of Tate Kick it seems as though he does not try all the time.. I see him standing at the 3 point line watching sometimes or walking up the court often... Just seems like he could be even greater if he hustled a little!

I'm with you on this one...earlier I said that Kick plays lazy and that he doesn't crash the boards and someone came back with..."doesn't crash the boards?  He averaged 10 rebs. a game!"  Well, I'll bet you that 98% of those are defensive rebounds where he just happens to be under the basket.  If he crashed the boards, especially on the offensive side, he could get 2-3 more rebounds a game, and that's significant.  But if you watch him, he outlets early looking for the fastbreak alot or just stands around the three point line.  This is not debatable, I've seen him do it many times.  But, come to think of it, most players are like this...it's the really great players that decide to go get a rebound every time there is a shot.  Kick doesn't.

[da_man 23]

I'm not ignoring the fact that Wilhelm didn't have a good shooting tournament. I'll admit it.."WILHELM DID NOT HAVE A GOOD SHOOTING TOURNAMENT." But just because he didn't have a good shooting state tournament doesn't mean he isn't better then Kick. Kinda funny how all the people that think Kick is better can only use the state tournament to justify that. Who outscored who in all 4 of there matchups???

Who was double teamed everytime they played........ KICK, not wilhelm.  First game, they double and tripled him, second meeting, kick played 20 minutes cuz of fouls and wilhelm played 36, yet kick was only 6 or sumtin short of him. Third game, i think kick outscored him and jordan credited his team to keeping kick silent by all the double and triple teams and fourth game Kick played a better all around game, jordan was on fire the first half, but wasn't on the second. and kick did all this while being double teamed, where jordan was double teamed only a hand full of times........that makes a huge difference in scoring and shooting. Kick has had to put up with double teams all year by every team, even williston........that didn't happen with wilhelm. not to mention the Box and 1 that Minot played on him......i have never seen that done in HS ball before!

[Buckeye]

[da_man 23]

Ok.. I'm gonna catch heat for this but... I voted for Wilhelm just because every game that i've seen of Tate Kick it seems as though he does not try all the time.. I see him standing at the 3 point line watching sometimes or walking up the court often... Just seems like he could be even greater if he hustled a little!

I'm with you on this one...earlier I said that Kick plays lazy and that he doesn't crash the boards and someone came back with..."doesn't crash the boards?  He averaged 10 rebs. a game!"  Well, I'll bet you that 98% of those are defensive rebounds where he just happens to be under the basket.  If he crashed the boards, especially on the offensive side, he could get 2-3 more rebounds a game, and that's significant.  But if you watch him, he outlets early looking for the fastbreak alot or just stands around the three point line.  This is not debatable, I've seen him do it many times.  But, come to think of it, most players are like this...it's the really great players that decide to go get a rebound every time there is a shot.  Kick doesn't.

HAHAHAHAHA u know whats funny about that, is that he led the WDA in RPG and ur telling me he isn't a good rebounder cuz he breaks for fast breaks sumtimes??? come on, he played on the perimeter sumtimes, what was he supposed to do just let the guy he was guarding break down the court and get a wide open lay up if he doesn't get the rebound??

[Buckeye]

ur sitting here tellin me that wilhelm is better than KICK? on what grounds? kick was 2nd in scoring, wilhelm what 5th or sumtin. kick 1st in rbds, wilhelm was i dont know? wilhelm shot 29 % for state while kick was 50 % or better, and let's not forget, a state championship. so no im not a hater on wilhelm, but when u sit here and tell me that he is better than kick and u have no legitimate arguement, im gonna prove u wrong....

Dickinson and Bismarck split the season series this year, 2-2. The first game against each other Wilhelm put up 17 while Kick put up 11, a DHS win. The second game against each other Kick was more impressive but still Wilhelm out did him. 21 for Kick while Wilhelm posted 28, a BHS win. BHS then beat DHS in the WDA championship but I could not get the scoring results on that game, if someone can help me out, please do so. That once again was a BHS win. In the final match up at state, Wilhelm outscored Kick once again 22-20 in a DHS win.

You make it sound like Kick is FAR and AWAY better then Wilhelm where I think they are very close with Wilhelm having the edge by a little bit.

The reason Wilhelm had to shoot so much that championship game is because no one else for BHS could hit a shot in order to save their life.What was Jordan suppose to do, sit back and not shoot while his teammates missed. You want your go-to guy taking the big shots in big games. Fridley stepped up HUGE for DHS and Kick didn't have to do as much and force shots. If Martinez shoots good against DHS, Wilhelm takes about 5-10 shots less then he did. I'm not going to lie, he was forcing some shots in that game, but like I said, what was he suppose to do.

let's not forget how much more Kick was double teamed than Wilhelm though! It's not like Wilhelm can be called a defensive mastermind, and in fact in an article in the tribune after WDA I believe he said that it wasn't him but the double teams that stopped Kick. I only remember a few times that Wilhelm was doubled when he got it low.

He was supposed to pass the ball.  If you are and have been shooting poor wouldn't you want to try to create opportunities for others so they at least stay involved.  Sounds like you are criticizing teamates for poor shooting, while excusing Wilhelm for his.  They obviously have other capable players, or they wouldn't of had the season they did.  That's one of the differences between the two.  Dickinson's coach said in the papers before WDA they didn't want to rely on Kick too much or they might struggle as a team.  Kick went with the plan. Before state their coach said in the papers he wanted Kick to touch the ball more.  He did and they are state champs.  Didn't mean he had to average 23 shots a game. Fridley had a huge game.  Someone different always seemed to step up for DHS, but Kick was there night in night out for over 2 1/2 year. Wilhelm shot bad thoughout WDA and state and saw it happen during the season also.  BHS still made it to the championship, so someone else must have been doing something.  It was a  typical Wilhelm/BHS game.

[sportsman]

Ok.. I'm gonna catch heat for this but... I voted for Wilhelm just because every game that i've seen of Tate Kick it seems as though he does not try all the time.. I see him standing at the 3 point line watching sometimes or walking up the court often... Just seems like he could be even greater if he hustled a little!

I'm with you on this one...earlier I said that Kick plays lazy and that he doesn't crash the boards and someone came back with..."doesn't crash the boards?  He averaged 10 rebs. a game!"  Well, I'll bet you that 98% of those are defensive rebounds where he just happens to be under the basket.  If he crashed the boards, especially on the offensive side, he could get 2-3 more rebounds a game, and that's significant.  But if you watch him, he outlets early looking for the fastbreak alot or just stands around the three point line.  This is not debatable, I've seen him do it many times.  But, come to think of it, most players are like this...it's the really great players that decide to go get a rebound every time there is a shot.  Kick doesn't.

Paperboy, you still make no sense!!  So what your saying is Wilhelm is better than Kick because Kick led the league in rebounds...but he is a lazy rebounder??  WOW, great logic!!!

[Wrestler]

I'm not ignoring the fact that Wilhelm didn't have a good shooting tournament. I'll admit it.."WILHELM DID NOT HAVE A GOOD SHOOTING TOURNAMENT." But just because he didn't have a good shooting state tournament doesn't mean he isn't better then Kick. Kinda funny how all the people that think Kick is better can only use the state tournament to justify that. Who outscored who in all 4 of there matchups???

Only bringing up the state tourney, because thats where he was shafted in the MVP vote to someone who shot 29% in the tourney.

Do you want to go to season stats.....ok.

                Kick               Wilhelm

PPG           23.4                 20.9

RPG           10.1                  8.7

Steals         1.79             not in top 10

Blocks         0.74               0.84

Ya, all we got is this silly state tournament and nothing else.

[sportsman]

 Who outscored who in all 4 of there matchups???

Hmmm......I wonder who took more shots???  Wait...scratch that....who forced up more wild, uncontrolable shots in those games???  Wait...scratch that too...which one was able to celebrate a STATE CHAMPIONSHIP??? 

[cdub1]

I'm not ignoring the fact that Wilhelm didn't have a good shooting tournament. I'll admit it.."WILHELM DID NOT HAVE A GOOD SHOOTING TOURNAMENT." But just because he didn't have a good shooting state tournament doesn't mean he isn't better then Kick. Kinda funny how all the people that think Kick is better can only use the state tournament to justify that. Who outscored who in all 4 of there matchups???

Who was double teamed everytime they played........ KICK, not wilhelm.  First game, they double and tripled him, second meeting, kick played 20 minutes cuz of fouls and wilhelm played 36, yet kick was only 6 or sumtin short of him. Third game, i think kick outscored him and jordan credited his team to keeping kick silent by all the double and triple teams and fourth game Kick played a better all around game, jordan was on fire the first half, but wasn't on the second. and kick did all this while being double teamed, where jordan was double teamed only a hand full of times........that makes a huge difference in scoring and shooting. Kick has had to put up with double teams all year by every team, even williston........that didn't happen with wilhelm. not to mention the Box and 1 that Minot played on him......i have never seen that done in HS ball before!

st marys box and 1 against belohlavek

[cdub1]

i think kick is better than wilhelm i have thought that since their sophomore years and wilhelm has not done anything to show me he is better than kick kick does things wilhelm doesnt dunks and gets the team pumped up attacks when he NEEDS to lets marcus have good games and watch instead of forcing it up i have seen for example martinez hits a couple shots and wilhelm starts launching where if bruhschwein hits a couple kick gets him the ball and i honestly dont think martinez is better than bruhschwein he just shoots more

[iluvbball]

May I ask why we are comparing 2 such great and accomplished athletes?  It has turned into a slam-fest on them.  Personal attacks on their weaknesses.  How pathetic that you all have to slam one to build the other up.  That's a shame.  Grow up.  I'm pretty sure that neither kid would appreciate this bull.  WOW!!!!!:X

[cdub1]

May I ask why we are comparing 2 such great and accomplished athletes?  It has turned into a slam-fest on them.  Personal attacks on their weaknesses.  How pathetic that you all have to slam one to build the other up.  That's a shame.  Grow up.  I'm pretty sure that neither kid would appreciate this bull.  WOW!!!!!:X

i dont think i slammed either of them i said why i think kick is better than wilhelm because he does more

[iluvbball]

Cdub,

You are so bad with your comments that people actually laugh at your ridiculous comments because they are so random and dumb.  I am embarrassed for you and your ignorance of all aspects of the game of basketball.  Why don't you give it up already?

[cdub1]

Cdub,

You are so bad with your comments that people actually laugh at your ridiculous comments because they are so random and dumb.  I am embarrassed for you and your ignorance of all aspects of the game of basketball.  Why don't you give it up already?

give wut up exactly i dont think i bashed either player and my ignorance on all aspects of basketball that interests me read about 900 of my basketball posts and tell me if everyone of them wuz ignorant random and dumb