gameplayer wrote:I have always looked at volleyball reffing as probably one of the toughest sports to officiate. An official is relying on line judges, in some cases students, to call 50% of the game. After watching the region 4 tournament I was satisfied with the officiating. First time all year an up official overrulled a bad call by the line judge. I would like to see more of that. Lifts are such a judgement call you are sure to offend someone. I got a kick out of watching a parent from Carrington last Thursday night practically stand the whole game calling everything a lift. Good entertainment! I am thinking you are listening as much as watching when calling lifts. Overall I thought officiating was very good this year.
Carr wrote:I am aware of the center line rule. My comment about the rule was a bit off topic, but since you ask, i will tell you what I meant by it.
I tried to look for some information on exactly when the rule was changed, however I could not find the exact type of verbiage I was looking for. Back when I played ball, the rule was- no body part could cross the center line. We were told to envision a brick wall from the floor to the top of the antenna. If the plain was crossed it was a violation and play was stopped. The current rule allows players to cross the line as long as it is not their entire body part. There are teams who are using this to their advantage, because their hitters are comming screaming into the ball so close to the net that they consistently land on or over that center line for a brief second. The entire thing is so quick- I would assume it is almost impossible for the refs to notice exactly where their feet are landing, since they are trying to watch the play itself. I think that the current rule is dangerous and will maybe start being abused as I discribed. In college, they aslo have the persuit rule now, which I find even more intrusive. I was just saying, I liked the old way and the brick wall analogy I was tought.
As far as net calls- I can noramlly tell who is in the net unless there is a bounce from the hit. The refs are quite good at calling this correctly- but every once and awhile, it is clearly a mistake. (I know they are only human.) You do not see a reaction because a reation does no good. A reaction only looks unsportsman like. Once a call is made there is no reason to argue it. Maybe coaches should have a 2 challange flags per set like they have in pro football or something?!?!!? LOL. It would be nice to have the opportunity to review some of these plays and calls!!! (Like in the class B semi-finals match)
Foot fouls.... I see them all the time!!! You would be surprised if the refs started to crack down on them how many could be called. Unless it is very obvious, they are rarely called.... prolly cause it is something that should never have to be watched at highschool level volleyball right.
Just wondering how do schools pick their line judges? How many hours of training do they sit through? It seems like they have a rather important job.... are the line judges getting enough education????
Carr wrote:As a matter of fact I have line judged... alot, when I was younger. However- I have also played and knew the rules. Sometimes it would seem they throw high school boys up to line judge telling them only "this is in and this is out." If you can remember playing volleyball in gym class with "the boys" you know what I am getting at. I am Just asking what kind of thought and eduacation goes into our line judges? I know of no requirements....
Commented and agreed on hearing lifts earlier.
The matches that I got to watch (on TV) at state seemed to be very well done. I started this thread after regionals.
badRef2 wrote:Lots of interesting topics brought up in the thread. I'm guessing I've reffed more than most so I'll take a shot a couple of the comments.
1) Lack of consistency is a problem, from ref to ref and even for the same ref from day to day. Nets calls and foot faults should be black and white. Regarding the judgement calls the best any of us can hope for is consistency throughout the match.
2) The center line has what is called the "shadow rule." If any part of the foot is on OR over the line the player is fine. The knee crossing into the other teams court is a fault. I don't think this is missed much; however, angles are everything and players are frequently very close. Barely legal is legal.
3) Sloppy play is legal, I don't have a signal for sloppy contact. I have one for prolonged contact, and as a former coach I sometimes cringe at the level of play, but if it isn't carried (for example, sits in one hand or on the forearm too long), it's good by me. Lifts should NEVER be called by sound or player position or footwork or where the ball goes after the contact, just the visual I get of the contact. Remember, doubles are legal on the first contact. It may be a line line between a double and one long contact, and personally I lean towards let them play, but that's me. And don't bring in college matches. Completely different philosophy on the calls (same rules). Good-or-bad, the coaches want more of the let-them-play mentality on the first ball. It's not called because they don't want much of it called. College is MUCH tighter on the second and third contact.
4) The West is probably too tight on first ball, or the East is too loose, depending upon your perspective. Some coaches like one or the other (not as divided by geography as you might think), but I think all would rather have consistency than anything else. (see #1)
5) Lines judges (two judges, two lines each) can make or break a close match. You don't appreciate your lines judges until you have bad ones.I'm there because I've passed the rules test, worked my way through the ranks over the years, and if it's post-season, because the coaches selected me. It's frustrating when the LJ's are whomever was stuck doing it tonight. If you get a chance, be a lines judge. I love listening to coaches working with their players and you get to see the game from a whole different perspective. And you'll get a new appreciation for players that have to deal with a really tough float serve.
6) Net calls are a challenge. The net can be pushed into the blocker and it's not a fault. Some systems are set up such that the R1 shifting their weight causes the net to shake (seriously, it's common). I've seen clear net violations by one of the two blockers without clearly knowing which player, so it's possible the wrong number gets reported while still getting the call right. I've also seen players literally get stuck in the net and still profess innocence regarding the net call, so you can't always go by the players reaction.
Just my $0.02 (probably more like $0.04, way longer than it should be).
Just a (hopefully not) badRef
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