How will region 2 baseball end up?

Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby Tigger » Tue May 25, 2010 7:44 am

Indy5 wrote:
web17 wrote:
Indy5 wrote:Schwab and baseball, you both have very solid points and I don't agree with what the coach did, but we're talking about costing a man his job over it? This isn't the pros or D1 where a coach can get fired and then easily find another job somewhere.

I would love to know if someone had the pitch count. Anyone from Thompson that could fill us in? I know a lot of teams keep track of pitch count, so people around Thompson probably know what it was exactly.


finished somewhere near 240 pitches. battled every hitter for 11 innings. mayville didnt get anything easy. walked a few too many guys. no arm pain during or after the game. brantl is one of the best coaches in the state, pretty hard to second guess him.

Brandon Weber threw this game, huh? And what do we have hear? Someone tagged web17 telling us his pitch count and arm pain. Also key factor is backing the head coach. Now, I'm no detective, but I think this adds up to one thing.


I'm sure Mr. Weber had a say in going back out in the late innings. If he had gotten a little better defense and umpiring the first several innings, he wouldn't have had to go past 7 innings. This isn't much different than Trenbeth? pitching against Steele in the state championship several years ago for Cavalier (in a neck brace) or the typical Babe Ruth team that relies on their ace to throw 7 innings every other game in the tournaments. It's too bad region 2 went to this current format because under the old double-elim system I think we would have seen a MPCG/Thompson rematch for the championship.
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby InTheKnow » Tue May 25, 2010 10:12 am

winner-within wrote:
InTheKnow wrote:
The Schwab wrote:I'm sure this isn't the first controversy in Thompson over the baseball coach, I could be wrong.


Its not. He has not been the Legion coach for a while for various reasons that I can not remember at the moment.

You mentioned earlier that some serious injuries could have happened... They may very well have but wont be noticed right away. Most major arm injuries that result in surgery are not just from one 300 pitch outing but from multiple similar situations or continuing to pitch with pain after a similar outing. He may be well on his way to blowing out his arm. It may not happen until later, but may have started from this game.



If he is 18 and is that genetically gifted he will be just fine....you guys make it sound like keeping you arm around your girlfriend to long could cause some long term issues.


WOW! How does genetically gifted have anything to do with it. Look at how many far more gifted pitchers then Weber are having Tommy John surgery or shoulder surgery. They usually can go back to a specific outing in HS or college where they threw WAY too much. It doesnt hurt bad right then but it is the start or a major factor in the micro tearing of the ligament slowly. If he is not hurting now he will be this summer. Elbow injuries from throwing are not blunt injuries like the majority of injuries in other sports. They develop over time from over use.
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby winner-within » Tue May 25, 2010 4:27 pm

InTheKnow wrote:
winner-within wrote:
InTheKnow wrote:
The Schwab wrote:I'm sure this isn't the first controversy in Thompson over the baseball coach, I could be wrong.


Its not. He has not been the Legion coach for a while for various reasons that I can not remember at the moment.

You mentioned earlier that some serious injuries could have happened... They may very well have but wont be noticed right away. Most major arm injuries that result in surgery are not just from one 300 pitch outing but from multiple similar situations or continuing to pitch with pain after a similar outing. He may be well on his way to blowing out his arm. It may not happen until later, but may have started from this game.



If he is 18 and is that genetically gifted he will be just fine....you guys make it sound like keeping you arm around your girlfriend to long could cause some long term issues.


WOW! How does genetically gifted have anything to do with it. Look at how many far more gifted pitchers then Weber are having Tommy John surgery or shoulder surgery. They usually can go back to a specific outing in HS or college where they threw WAY too much. It doesnt hurt bad right then but it is the start or a major factor in the micro tearing of the ligament slowly. If he is not hurting now he will be this summer. Elbow injuries from throwing are not blunt injuries like the majority of injuries in other sports. They develop over time from over use.


Well for your info IN THE KNOW...you should KNOW that the only way to get highly exceptional elbow tendons is through inheritance......not lifting, not throwing everyday, not anything else.
Research Arm Wrestling or Throwing any thing....its in the Elbow Tendons (some have them some don't)....you can still be a very good pitcher with out the best tendons in the book...but if you over do it you will be going under the knife before the player who was "genetically gifted" or genetically lucky or however you wanted to say it.... I can guaranty you some where in Nolan Ryan's tree there was a machine with good tendons.
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby Big Blue » Tue May 25, 2010 6:35 pm

Brandon Weber is a competitor as simple as that. I'm sure he told his coach not to take him off the hill, but there are situations where athletes don't know what is best for them. Brantl is an excellent coach, but made a bad decision that could have caused his pitcher major physical damage in the future. I give all the credit in the world to Weber for being gutsy, but his coach has to make the move before he hits 150 pitches.
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby cubsfan » Tue May 25, 2010 6:54 pm

Back on topic, I want to congratulate the MPCG Patriots! They won the first game 11-5 and the second game 3-2 in nine innings. I would like to congratulate the Larimore Polar Bears on a good season. They actually out hit MPCG in both games. They had a very nice season.
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby ltownheroes » Tue May 25, 2010 11:17 pm

congrats to MPCG on the win.. they played well and good luck at state to them. Also, i think daniel quinn deserves some credit. he single handedly demolished cv the first game. 3X3 single double triple and 3 ribs and also drove in the first runs to beat minto... also he went 7 innings in the game vs mayville today and held them to a single run... kudos to the kid, he's a gamer
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby ltownheroes » Tue May 25, 2010 11:39 pm

ltownheroes wrote:congrats to MPCG on the win.. they played well and good luck at state to them. Also, i think daniel quinn deserves some credit. he single handedly demolished cv the first game. 3X3 single double triple and 3 ribs and also drove in the first runs to beat minto... also he went 7 innings in the game vs mayville today and held them to a single run... kudos to the kid, he's a gamer


did i mention... 13 k's in 7 innings vs. cv as well
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby InTheKnow » Wed May 26, 2010 12:30 am

winner-within wrote:
InTheKnow wrote:
winner-within wrote:
InTheKnow wrote:
The Schwab wrote:I'm sure this isn't the first controversy in Thompson over the baseball coach, I could be wrong.


Its not. He has not been the Legion coach for a while for various reasons that I can not remember at the moment.

You mentioned earlier that some serious injuries could have happened... They may very well have but wont be noticed right away. Most major arm injuries that result in surgery are not just from one 300 pitch outing but from multiple similar situations or continuing to pitch with pain after a similar outing. He may be well on his way to blowing out his arm. It may not happen until later, but may have started from this game.



If he is 18 and is that genetically gifted he will be just fine....you guys make it sound like keeping you arm around your girlfriend to long could cause some long term issues.


WOW! How does genetically gifted have anything to do with it. Look at how many far more gifted pitchers then Weber are having Tommy John surgery or shoulder surgery. They usually can go back to a specific outing in HS or college where they threw WAY too much. It doesnt hurt bad right then but it is the start or a major factor in the micro tearing of the ligament slowly. If he is not hurting now he will be this summer. Elbow injuries from throwing are not blunt injuries like the majority of injuries in other sports. They develop over time from over use.


Well for your info IN THE KNOW...you should KNOW that the only way to get highly exceptional elbow tendons is through inheritance......not lifting, not throwing everyday, not anything else.
Research Arm Wrestling or Throwing any thing....its in the Elbow Tendons (some have them some don't)....you can still be a very good pitcher with out the best tendons in the book...but if you over do it you will be going under the knife before the player who was "genetically gifted" or genetically lucky or however you wanted to say it.... I can guaranty you some where in Nolan Ryan's tree there was a machine with good tendons.


Really! You cant strengthen tendons?!?! No kidding! HAHA WOW! So you know the UCL strength of his throwing arm by looking at him??? If not how can you say if he is 18 and genetically gifted he will be fine. How can you tell so you know who you can leave out there for 300 pitches and who you cant. Or instead as a coach you just roll the dice and if he is not "genetically gifted" you just say tough break kid? No one, and I mean no one knows what his elbow structure is like unless you scope him. If you can tell by just looking at him I think Dr James Andrews would love to meet you!
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby InTheKnow » Wed May 26, 2010 12:34 am

Congrats to Mayville! They have been playing arguably the most consistent out of anyone over the last 2-3 weeks. With how balanced the region was that was what it was going to take and they got the job done.
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby cubsfan » Wed May 26, 2010 8:22 am

I think it really came down to defense. MPCG had the best defense in the tournament.
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby InTheKnow » Wed May 26, 2010 9:01 am

cubsfan wrote:I think it really came down to defense. MPCG had the best defense in the tournament.


Defense wins! You cant give teams extra outs to work with or a solid offensive team will take advantage of it.
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby winner-within » Wed May 26, 2010 3:16 pm

InTheKnow wrote:
winner-within wrote:
InTheKnow wrote:
winner-within wrote:
InTheKnow wrote:
The Schwab wrote:I'm sure this isn't the first controversy in Thompson over the baseball coach, I could be wrong.


Its not. He has not been the Legion coach for a while for various reasons that I can not remember at the moment.

You mentioned earlier that some serious injuries could have happened... They may very well have but wont be noticed right away. Most major arm injuries that result in surgery are not just from one 300 pitch outing but from multiple similar situations or continuing to pitch with pain after a similar outing. He may be well on his way to blowing out his arm. It may not happen until later, but may have started from this game.



If he is 18 and is that genetically gifted he will be just fine....you guys make it sound like keeping you arm around your girlfriend to long could cause some long term issues.


WOW! How does genetically gifted have anything to do with it. Look at how many far more gifted pitchers then Weber are having Tommy John surgery or shoulder surgery. They usually can go back to a specific outing in HS or college where they threw WAY too much. It doesnt hurt bad right then but it is the start or a major factor in the micro tearing of the ligament slowly. If he is not hurting now he will be this summer. Elbow injuries from throwing are not blunt injuries like the majority of injuries in other sports. They develop over time from over use.


Well for your info IN THE KNOW...you should KNOW that the only way to get highly exceptional elbow tendons is through inheritance......not lifting, not throwing everyday, not anything else.
Research Arm Wrestling or Throwing any thing....its in the Elbow Tendons (some have them some don't)....you can still be a very good pitcher with out the best tendons in the book...but if you over do it you will be going under the knife before the player who was "genetically gifted" or genetically lucky or however you wanted to say it.... I can guaranty you some where in Nolan Ryan's tree there was a machine with good tendons.


Really! You cant strengthen tendons?!?! No kidding! HAHA WOW! So you know the UCL strength of his throwing arm by looking at him??? If not how can you say if he is 18 and genetically gifted he will be fine. How can you tell so you know who you can leave out there for 300 pitches and who you cant. Or instead as a coach you just roll the dice and if he is not "genetically gifted" you just say tough break kid? No one, and I mean no one knows what his elbow structure is like unless you scope him. If you can tell by just looking at him I think Dr James Andrews would love to meet you![/quote]

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How can i strengthen the tendons in my pitching elbow ?
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You can to some extent with exercise, but a lot of it is just one of those things you're born with.

You can't teach or train someone to throw a baseball 95 mph. You can only train them to reach their inborn potential.

:wink:
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby Indy5 » Wed May 26, 2010 6:09 pm

winner-within wrote:
You can't teach or train someone to throw a baseball 95 mph. You can only train them to reach their inborn potential.

:wink:

Thats true that you can't make someone throw 95, you can only make them reach their max potential. With that said, you have no clue what playing long toss every day will do for your arm strength. The results can be miraculous.
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby baseball » Wed May 26, 2010 6:40 pm

Can't everything and anything only be done to its "max potential"? if it went passed that point, it obviosuly wasnt the maximum level of potential?
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby Indy5 » Wed May 26, 2010 8:36 pm

baseball wrote:Can't everything and anything only be done to its "max potential"? if it went passed that point, it obviosuly wasnt the maximum level of potential?

Haha, yeah I guess that is true.
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby winner-within » Thu May 27, 2010 9:23 am

Indy5 wrote:
winner-within wrote:
You can't teach or train someone to throw a baseball 95 mph. You can only train them to reach their inborn potential.

:wink:

Thats true that you can't make someone throw 95, you can only make them reach their max potential. With that said, you have no clue what playing long toss every day will do for your arm strength. The results can be miraculous.



yea but it don't strengthen your tendons.... it conditions the tendons you were born with and builds the muscles it takes to throw.....believe me not every guy in the Bull Pen is Genetically gifted with great tendons.
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby winner-within » Thu May 27, 2010 9:49 am

baseball wrote:Can't everything and anything only be done to its "max potential"? if it went passed that point, it obviosuly wasnt the maximum level of potential?



were not talkin everything and anything....were talkin Elbow tendons....Ligaments join bone to bone you take some guys who blow knees easier than the next guy doing the same cuts etc etc....boils down to INHERITED ligaments....
Tendons join muscle to bone...INHERITED....so "Max Potential" is different fro player to player....sure it still max but I think you have watched sports (at every level) long enough to know its easy to spot gifted when your watching. You can build two arms to Max potential and the one with the better tendons will out last the one next one......

Example: Andy Pettitte goes 8 innings last night at 38 years old and 20 years at the pro level 15 in the majors....I'm sure this is from drinking milk and has nothing to do with Genetics :lol:
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby InTheKnow » Thu May 27, 2010 10:17 am

winner-within wrote:
InTheKnow wrote:
winner-within wrote:
InTheKnow wrote:
winner-within wrote:
InTheKnow wrote:
The Schwab wrote:I'm sure this isn't the first controversy in Thompson over the baseball coach, I could be wrong.


Its not. He has not been the Legion coach for a while for various reasons that I can not remember at the moment.

You mentioned earlier that some serious injuries could have happened... They may very well have but wont be noticed right away. Most major arm injuries that result in surgery are not just from one 300 pitch outing but from multiple similar situations or continuing to pitch with pain after a similar outing. He may be well on his way to blowing out his arm. It may not happen until later, but may have started from this game.



If he is 18 and is that genetically gifted he will be just fine....you guys make it sound like keeping you arm around your girlfriend to long could cause some long term issues.


WOW! How does genetically gifted have anything to do with it. Look at how many far more gifted pitchers then Weber are having Tommy John surgery or shoulder surgery. They usually can go back to a specific outing in HS or college where they threw WAY too much. It doesnt hurt bad right then but it is the start or a major factor in the micro tearing of the ligament slowly. If he is not hurting now he will be this summer. Elbow injuries from throwing are not blunt injuries like the majority of injuries in other sports. They develop over time from over use.


Well for your info IN THE KNOW...you should KNOW that the only way to get highly exceptional elbow tendons is through inheritance......not lifting, not throwing everyday, not anything else.
Research Arm Wrestling or Throwing any thing....its in the Elbow Tendons (some have them some don't)....you can still be a very good pitcher with out the best tendons in the book...but if you over do it you will be going under the knife before the player who was "genetically gifted" or genetically lucky or however you wanted to say it.... I can guaranty you some where in Nolan Ryan's tree there was a machine with good tendons.


Really! You cant strengthen tendons?!?! No kidding! HAHA WOW! So you know the UCL strength of his throwing arm by looking at him??? If not how can you say if he is 18 and genetically gifted he will be fine. How can you tell so you know who you can leave out there for 300 pitches and who you cant. Or instead as a coach you just roll the dice and if he is not "genetically gifted" you just say tough break kid? No one, and I mean no one knows what his elbow structure is like unless you scope him. If you can tell by just looking at him I think Dr James Andrews would love to meet you!


winner-within wrote



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How can i strengthen the tendons in my pitching elbow ?
so i dont throw like Gumby after 5 innings

* 2 years ago



Best Answer - Chosen by Voters
You can to some extent with exercise, but a lot of it is just one of those things you're born with.

You can't teach or train someone to throw a baseball 95 mph. You can only train them to reach their inborn potential.

:wink:[/quote]

What part of no kidding do you not understand? Of course you cant make tendons stronger with out having replacement surgery. I clearly stated that! And it is ligaments and not tendons that is in question. But you CAN TEACH and TRAIN someone to improve their arm strength and the health of their arm to their maximum potential. Something the majority of Class B schools dont do. Anthony Klinske topped out in HS around 87mph. He was hitting 94 this spring with NDSU. How? From long toss, a throwing program, and specific shoulder and arm exercises focusing on the small muscles to STRENGTHEN his arm and keep it pain free.
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby InTheKnow » Thu May 27, 2010 11:10 am

winner-within wrote:
baseball wrote:Can't everything and anything only be done to its "max potential"? if it went passed that point, it obviosuly wasnt the maximum level of potential?



were not talkin everything and anything....were talkin Elbow tendons....Ligaments join bone to bone you take some guys who blow knees easier than the next guy doing the same cuts etc etc....boils down to INHERITED ligaments....
Tendons join muscle to bone...INHERITED....so "Max Potential" is different fro player to player....sure it still max but I think you have watched sports (at every level) long enough to know its easy to spot gifted when your watching. You can build two arms to Max potential and the one with the better tendons will out last the one next one......

Example: Andy Pettitte goes 8 innings last night at 38 years old and 20 years at the pro level 15 in the majors....I'm sure this is from drinking milk and has nothing to do with Genetics :lol:


It may be easy to spot gifted from an ATHLETIC standpoint but you can not spot gifted from a ligament stand point in a pitchers elbow. Over throwing blows out arms! PERIOD! A great example is Mike Rerick from Grand Forks who pitched at UND. Rerick was and is BY FAR the most dominant pitcher to come out of this area since Rick Helling and was arguably more talented then Rick. Rerick blew away the competition with his 88-90 mph fast ball from the left side and filthy slider regularly notching 18+ strikeout performances in HS. Because of that he threw WAY too much at every opportunity they could throw him. He went on to UND and it was more of the same because of his dominant performances. Only problem was his control was not the greatest which meant VERY high pitch counts each outing pushing the 150 plus range every game. He eventually came across the death nail for a guaranteed arm injury sooner or later. A NCAA DII record 21 strikeouts in a 10 inning complete game against Mankato State. He threw over 230 pitches that game as a Sophomore. He limped through his junior year which was cut short by the flood and received an extra year. In 1998 he pitched in pain putting up big strikeout numbers again with climbing pitch counts and was drafted by St Louis in the 22nd round which is rather high for a D2 player from the north, but following his physical evaluation before he could sign he was told he required Tommy John Surgery to fix his elbow. He was never able to return to form and career dead FROM OVER USE! JJ Scheving from Crookston passed Rerick on the UND strike out list in 2004. He threw more innings then any other pitcher in a season. Finished second on the career list for innings. Pitched in more games then any one in program history. He was over thrown as a Freshman and needed Tommy John after his sophomore season. He returned to form but eventually was right back to where he was before. Why? Because he had 9 wins and 7 saves on the year as a senior including 3 shutouts and 8 complete games. He had a hand in 16 of their 37 wins. What happened after his senior year when he threw that much? He signed with the RedHawks and had to retire after 2 weeks because of his arm. Pro career dead. Matt Mahoney from Grand forks is the last player drafted from UND, over thrown, Tommy John before he could sign. Career dead.

I could go on and on with examples like these from the area. I dont care if you have the BEST GENETICS FOR ELBOW LIGAMENTS IN THE WORLD. If you are over thrown like that you are guaranteed surgery down the road. It doesnt happen right away. It accumulates over time. The ligament doesnt just snap in half like an ACL.
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby winner-within » Thu May 27, 2010 12:17 pm

Tendons....Not LIGAMENTS.....its like this ITK , people disagree 50% of the time....just to disagree...your examples are noted but they do not void my explanation and reality of how genetics play THE MAJOR part of a Pitchers longevity potential.....and durability ability.... think of it like this....almost every pro athlete or D1 athlete has a brother, the brother isn't blessed with the gift... he lives a normal life and the other one becomes a Hall of Famer.

Also, in regards to your examples and views on this...whats worse, a Fresh 18 year old going 11 innings throwing 240 pitches... or 5 innings 120 pitches, on little rest??
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby baseball » Thu May 27, 2010 6:34 pm

winner-within wrote:
baseball wrote:Can't everything and anything only be done to its "max potential"? if it went passed that point, it obviosuly wasnt the maximum level of potential?



were not talkin everything and anything....were talkin Elbow tendons



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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby InTheKnow » Fri May 28, 2010 9:20 am

winner-within wrote:Tendons....Not LIGAMENTS.....its like this ITK , people disagree 50% of the time....just to disagree...your examples are noted but they do not void my explanation and reality of how genetics play THE MAJOR part of a Pitchers longevity potential.....and durability ability.... think of it like this....almost every pro athlete or D1 athlete has a brother, the brother isn't blessed with the gift... he lives a normal life and the other one becomes a Hall of Famer.

Also, in regards to your examples and views on this...whats worse, a Fresh 18 year old going 11 innings throwing 240 pitches... or 5 innings 120 pitches, on little rest??


I am not disagreeing to disagree. I am disagreeing because you have no idea what you are talking about even though you think you do. You just proved it above by saying "tendons...NOT LIGAMENTS" again. Tommy John Surgery replaces the UCL also know as the Ulnar Collateral LIGAMENT. The ligament that runs on the inside of the elbow connecting bone to bone. There isn't a professional pitching coach in the world that is extremely concerned about tendons in the elbow other then for the pitcher to miss a start or two if he gets tendinitis. Their concern is when the trainer does the check on the elbow where they pull the hand slightly outward with pressure on the elbow to see if the UCL is loose and the arm opens with pain. It is at that point an MRI is needed to determine the severity of the tear and if surgery is required or if a rehab program and 2 months rest will help it heal well enough. Cant say I have heard of a pitcher or any other baseball player have to have a biceps tendon replaced. The other major concern with over use has nothing to do with ligaments or tendons but developing bone spurs in the elbow or shoulder. They develop simply from over use. Quite often the bone spur that develops can begin to tear away at the ligaments.

As for the examples you gave both are bad. I dont have a problem with 120-125 pitches when someone is rested. But on short rest it is alot. I think being set in stone at 100 is a little too protective. It all depends on how their form deteriorates the longer they go. For example does their elbow begin to drop, are they losing their normal control or throwing more balls then usual. Is their stride becoming shorter. Some could go one more inning to 125, others only 100. Anything more then about 140-150 in a 4 day span is too much. The other major problem I see is forcing kids to throw 7 innings in the first start or only a week into the season. Coaches need to build up the pitch count over time. Not just 0-150 in the first game 2 weeks after practice started. The colleges and pros dont do that to their pitchers, they go 15-20 pitches more per week until they reach that point. Why should HS kids be forced to do that!
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Re: How will region 2 baseball end up?

Postby winner-within » Fri May 28, 2010 10:00 am

InTheKnow wrote:
winner-within wrote:Tendons....Not LIGAMENTS.....its like this ITK , people disagree 50% of the time....just to disagree...your examples are noted but they do not void my explanation and reality of how genetics play THE MAJOR part of a Pitchers longevity potential.....and durability ability.... think of it like this....almost every pro athlete or D1 athlete has a brother, the brother isn't blessed with the gift... he lives a normal life and the other one becomes a Hall of Famer.

Also, in regards to your examples and views on this...whats worse, a Fresh 18 year old going 11 innings throwing 240 pitches... or 5 innings 120 pitches, on little rest??


I am not disagreeing to disagree. I am disagreeing because you have no idea what you are talking about even though you think you do. You just proved it above by saying "tendons...NOT LIGAMENTS" again. Tommy John Surgery replaces the UCL also know as the Ulnar Collateral LIGAMENT. The ligament that runs on the inside of the elbow connecting bone to bone. There isn't a professional pitching coach in the world that is extremely concerned about tendons in the elbow other then for the pitcher to miss a start or two if he gets tendinitis. Their concern is when the trainer does the check on the elbow where they pull the hand slightly outward with pressure on the elbow to see if the UCL is loose and the arm opens with pain. It is at that point an MRI is needed to determine the severity of the tear and if surgery is required or if a rehab program and 2 months rest will help it heal well enough. Cant say I have heard of a pitcher or any other baseball player have to have a biceps tendon replaced. The other major concern with over use has nothing to do with ligaments or tendons but developing bone spurs in the elbow or shoulder. They develop simply from over use. Quite often the bone spur that develops can begin to tear away at the ligaments.

As for the examples you gave both are bad. I dont have a problem with 120-125 pitches when someone is rested. But on short rest it is alot. I think being set in stone at 100 is a little too protective. It all depends on how their form deteriorates the longer they go. For example does their elbow begin to drop, are they losing their normal control or throwing more balls then usual. Is their stride becoming shorter. Some could go one more inning to 125, others only 100. Anything more then about 140-150 in a 4 day span is too much. The other major problem I see is forcing kids to throw 7 innings in the first start or only a week into the season. Coaches need to build up the pitch count over time. Not just 0-150 in the first game 2 weeks after practice started. The colleges and pros dont do that to their pitchers, they go 15-20 pitches more per week until they reach that point. Why should HS kids be forced to do that!


When a young pitcher still has room in the growth plate..he will not have an issue with the UCL...!!
"Pitchers Elbow" is a Tendon issue......and that's where this all started....but you are the one who took it to the Tommy john level....You can name me 100 players that have had Tommy John...I can name you 5,000 that haven't and they all played baseball the same way...some just inherited the better structure of the Elbow Joint.
If you can’t excel with talent, triumph with effort.
winner-within
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