2008 college

[wildcats]

All of that may be true Bison, but there is no way you can say he pitched "well." Giving up 5 EARNED runs in a little over five innings isn't going to win you many games. I know OU is a good team, but that still isn't pitching well.

[baseball1981]

thank you...

[InTheKnow]

baseball1981. You know all too well what a good defense can do behind you. He didnt allow an earned run until the 4th inning. Faced 3 hitters in the first. He should have given up only one lazy ground ball single in the second instead he ended up with 4 un earned runs from terrible defense. third inning they went down in order. 4th was a rough inning. Pitch count was already to 65 probably. 5th inning regrouped and allowed only one hit. By the 6th he was probably gassed from two long innings. finishied at 95 pitches through 5 1/3. 60 strikes. Bad defense kills you! Jake would probably be more dissapointed then anyone about his outing but it was not a bad outing against Oklahoma.

[Willy]

what kind of team do the jimmies have? i saw they got watkins and hes a solid player..

Last year they finished third in the Dac that was surprisingly strong last year.

JC has a great baseball program, 183-68 over the past 5 years and 5-1 so far this year. Top DAC teams, JC, and Dicky are as good or better than NDSU and probably offer more scholships. Valley City one of the worst teams in the DAC beat NDSU either last year or the year before. One correction - JC finished second in the DAC last year, just behind Dickinson.

[cubsfan]

what kind of team do the jimmies have? i saw they got watkins and hes a solid player..

Last year they finished third in the Dac that was surprisingly strong last year.

JC has a great baseball program, 183-68 over the past 5 years and 5-1 so far this year. Top DAC teams, JC, and Dicky are as good or better than NDSU and probably offer more scholships. Valley City one of the worst teams in the DAC beat NDSU either last year or the year before. One correction - JC finished second in the DAC last year, just behind Dickinson.

I believe they finished third in the regular season behind Dicky and Dakota State.

[InTheKnow]

what kind of team do the jimmies have? i saw they got watkins and hes a solid player..

Last year they finished third in the Dac that was surprisingly strong last year.

JC has a great baseball program, 183-68 over the past 5 years and 5-1 so far this year. Top DAC teams, JC, and Dicky are as good or better than NDSU and probably offer more scholships. Valley City one of the worst teams in the DAC beat NDSU either last year or the year before. One correction - JC finished second in the DAC last year, just behind Dickinson.

One victory over a team does not equate to them being better or being able to compare the whole conference. The victory Valley City had over NDSU was in 2006. The same season that NDSU beat Minnesota. Does that equate the DAC to being equal to the Big Ten since Minnesota went to the NCAA tournament. Not quite. A little background on that game. NDSU started a pitcher who only threw about 15 innings all season. The scheduled starter was comming off of an arm injury and was hoping to rest an additional week. The starter lasted 1/3 of an inning and allowed 5 runs. The scheduled starter who now cant crack the starting rotation came into the game and completely dominated striking out 10 and allowing 6 hits over 8 2/3 in only 102 pitches. Give VC credit they won the game and the lefty Wilson threw a gem but to make a comparison of one game to equate a program is not accurate.

[Willy]

what kind of team do the jimmies have? i saw they got watkins and hes a solid player..

Last year they finished third in the Dac that was surprisingly strong last year.

JC has a great baseball program, 183-68 over the past 5 years and 5-1 so far this year. Top DAC teams, JC, and Dicky are as good or better than NDSU and probably offer more scholships. Valley City one of the worst teams in the DAC beat NDSU either last year or the year before. One correction - JC finished second in the DAC last year, just behind Dickinson.

One victory over a team does not equate to them being better or being able to compare the whole conference. The victory Valley City had over NDSU was in 2006. The same season that NDSU beat Minnesota. Does that equate the DAC to being equal to the Big Ten since Minnesota went to the NCAA tournament. Not quite. A little background on that game. NDSU started a pitcher who only threw about 15 innings all season. The scheduled starter was comming off of an arm injury and was hoping to rest an additional week. The starter lasted 1/3 of an inning and allowed 5 runs. The scheduled starter who now cant crack the starting rotation came into the game and completely dominated striking out 10 and allowing 6 hits over 8 2/3 in only 102 pitches. Give VC credit they won the game and the lefty Wilson threw a gem but to make a comparison of one game to equate a program is not accurate.

First I didn't say Valley City was as good as NDSU, I said the top teams in the DAC are, JC, Dickinson, and Dak State. You are right, VC beat NDSU in 2006, last year NDSU thumped Valley City 4-3. I don't think you will see them schedule any more DAC teams anytime soon.

And just for the record, here is last year's DAC standings, right off the NAIA website. JC finished 2nd to Dickinson. Some games couldn't be made up so the final standings were determined by winning percentage.

2007 Dakota Athletic Conference
Dickinson State Univ 13 - 1 .928
Jamestown College 12 - 6 .667
Dakota State Univ 10 - 6 .625
Mayville State Univ 8 - 9 .471
Valley City State Univ 7 - 13 .350
Minot State University 1 - 16 .059

[InTheKnow]

what kind of team do the jimmies have? i saw they got watkins and hes a solid player..

Last year they finished third in the Dac that was surprisingly strong last year.

JC has a great baseball program, 183-68 over the past 5 years and 5-1 so far this year. Top DAC teams, JC, and Dicky are as good or better than NDSU and probably offer more scholships. Valley City one of the worst teams in the DAC beat NDSU either last year or the year before. One correction - JC finished second in the DAC last year, just behind Dickinson.

One victory over a team does not equate to them being better or being able to compare the whole conference. The victory Valley City had over NDSU was in 2006. The same season that NDSU beat Minnesota. Does that equate the DAC to being equal to the Big Ten since Minnesota went to the NCAA tournament. Not quite. A little background on that game. NDSU started a pitcher who only threw about 15 innings all season. The scheduled starter was comming off of an arm injury and was hoping to rest an additional week. The starter lasted 1/3 of an inning and allowed 5 runs. The scheduled starter who now cant crack the starting rotation came into the game and completely dominated striking out 10 and allowing 6 hits over 8 2/3 in only 102 pitches. Give VC credit they won the game and the lefty Wilson threw a gem but to make a comparison of one game to equate a program is not accurate.

First I didn't say Valley City was as good as NDSU, I said the top teams in the DAC are, JC, Dickinson, and Dak State. You are right, VC beat NDSU in 2006, last year NDSU thumped Valley City 4-3. I don't think you will see them schedule any more DAC teams anytime soon.

And just for the record, here is last year's DAC standings, right off the NAIA website. JC finished 2nd to Dickinson. Some games couldn't be made up so the final standings were determined by winning percentage.

2007 Dakota Athletic Conference
Dickinson State Univ 13 - 1 .928
Jamestown College 12 - 6 .667
Dakota State Univ 10 - 6 .625
Mayville State Univ 8 - 9 .471
Valley City State Univ 7 - 13 .350
Minot State University 1 - 16 .059

Dickinson, Jamestown, and Dakota are most definately solid programs. They may be close to NDSU but are not better. After just getting done playing teams like K-State, Creighton, Iowa, and Northern Iowa it is a little tough to get up for a team like Valley City which for them happens to be their world series for the season. They followed up the VC game winning 4 of 7 against Minnesota (L), SDSU (who finished 34-19, 3W-1L), and Northern Iowa (23-28 in the Missouri Valley, 1W-1L). NDSU also handeled UM-Duluth rather easily but had one slip up agianst U-Mary. When you go from facing pitchers throwing 87-92 consistantly to facing 76-82 your timing is off and it is tough to get going offensively. Anyone that has played baseball enough at that level knows that. On a side note NDSU finished second at the 2006 DI Independent tournament and third at the 2007 tournament.

[Willy]

Dickinson, Jamestown, and Dakota are most definately solid programs. They may be close to NDSU but are not better. After just getting done playing teams like K-State, Creighton, Iowa, and Northern Iowa it is a little tough to get up for a team like Valley City which for them happens to be their world series for the season. They followed up the VC game winning 4 of 7 against Minnesota (L), SDSU (who finished 34-19, 3W-1L), and Northern Iowa (23-28 in the Missouri Valley, 1W-1L). NDSU also handeled UM-Duluth rather easily but had one slip up agianst U-Mary. When you go from facing pitchers throwing 87-92 consistantly to facing 76-82 your timing is off and it is tough to get going offensively. Anyone that has played baseball enough at that level knows that. On a side note NDSU finished second at the 2006 DI Independent tournament and third at the 2007 tournament.

Wow, that's a lot of excuses for NDSU in one paragraph! DAC pitchers throw 76-82? Have you ever seen a DAC game? 85-90 is the typical fastball in the DAC. Get real!

[cubsfan]

A typical pitcher in the Dac will throw anywhere from 80-87 mph. There hardest thrower for Mayville State last year threw about 94. So if the teams threw one of the top pitchers they could have seen someone who threw just as hard as those pitchers.

[InTheKnow]

Dickinson, Jamestown, and Dakota are most definately solid programs. They may be close to NDSU but are not better. After just getting done playing teams like K-State, Creighton, Iowa, and Northern Iowa it is a little tough to get up for a team like Valley City which for them happens to be their world series for the season. They followed up the VC game winning 4 of 7 against Minnesota (L), SDSU (who finished 34-19, 3W-1L), and Northern Iowa (23-28 in the Missouri Valley, 1W-1L). NDSU also handeled UM-Duluth rather easily but had one slip up agianst U-Mary. When you go from facing pitchers throwing 87-92 consistantly to facing 76-82 your timing is off and it is tough to get going offensively. Anyone that has played baseball enough at that level knows that. On a side note NDSU finished second at the 2006 DI Independent tournament and third at the 2007 tournament.

Wow, that's a lot of excuses for NDSU in one paragraph! DAC pitchers throw 76-82? Have you ever seen a DAC game? 85-90 is the typical fastball in the DAC. Get real!

85-90 a typical fastball?!?!?! Are you serious? That may be the typical fastball for each teams #1 starter maybe the #2 and maybe the closer. I would give you 81-86 for the typical fastball with the top pitchers (6-8 total guys) running it at 87-91 CONSISTANTLY. There is a difference in touching that velocity and pitching at that velocity. I have been to several DAC games. I have been to the DAC tournament. I have coached youth players that were all-conference players in the DAC. I have coached against All-conference players in the DAC. I have played against All-American and All-confernece players in the DAC. I have played with All-Conference players in the DAC. I have close friends that have played and coached in the DAC. I know 4 head coaches in the DAC right now personally! The average fastball from VC in the game I attended last year vs NDSU was around 78-81 mph with the exception of Bielke around 87. How many NDSU, or UND games have you attended? How many DI games have you attended?

[Willy]

85-90 a typical fastball?!?!?! Are you serious? That may be the typical fastball for each teams #1 starter maybe the #2 and maybe the closer. I would give you 81-86 for the typical fastball with the top pitchers (6-8 total guys) running it at 87-91 CONSISTANTLY. There is a difference in touching that velocity and pitching at that velocity. I have been to several DAC games. I have been to the DAC tournament. I have coached youth players that were all-conference players in the DAC. I have coached against All-conference players in the DAC. I have played against All-American and All-confernece players in the DAC. I have played with All-Conference players in the DAC. I have close friends that have played and coached in the DAC. I know 4 head coaches in the DAC right now personally! The average fastball from VC in the game I attended last year vs NDSU was around 78-81 mph with the exception of Bielke around 87. How many NDSU, or UND games have you attended? How many DI games have you attended?

This is my last post on the subject. You are right, NDSU has much more depth, but you can only put 9 guys on the field at a time (10 with DH). No doubt NDSU's staff should have more depth, but I still think you are underestimating the number of guys that hit 85+ consistantly in the DAC. I'm sure if you polled the two Berrys, Hager and Monlux you would find each has three guys or more on staff that meet that criteria. Cant speak for Valley City or Minot. Besides, speed isn't nearly as important mastering a change-up, breaking stuff, and locating pitches.

[InTheKnow]

85-90 a typical fastball?!?!?! Are you serious? That may be the typical fastball for each teams #1 starter maybe the #2 and maybe the closer. I would give you 81-86 for the typical fastball with the top pitchers (6-8 total guys) running it at 87-91 CONSISTANTLY. There is a difference in touching that velocity and pitching at that velocity. I have been to several DAC games. I have been to the DAC tournament. I have coached youth players that were all-conference players in the DAC. I have coached against All-conference players in the DAC. I have played against All-American and All-confernece players in the DAC. I have played with All-Conference players in the DAC. I have close friends that have played and coached in the DAC. I know 4 head coaches in the DAC right now personally! The average fastball from VC in the game I attended last year vs NDSU was around 78-81 mph with the exception of Bielke around 87. How many NDSU, or UND games have you attended? How many DI games have you attended?

This is my last post on the subject. You are right, NDSU has much more depth, but you can only put 9 guys on the field at a time (10 with DH). No doubt NDSU's staff should have more depth, but I still think you are underestimating the number of guys that hit 85+ consistantly in the DAC. I'm sure if you polled the two Berrys, Hager and Monlux you would find each has three guys or more on staff that meet that criteria. Cant speak for Valley City or Minot. Besides, speed isn't nearly as important mastering a change-up, breaking stuff, and locating pitches.

This is my last post as well on this topic. As I said i will give you 81-86 for an average. Are there a number of guys who "hit" 85 on the gun. Definately. But above that in the 87+ range there are maybe 7-8 tops in the conference. I know Bielke and Calhoun at VC are around 87-89 in relief. On average you will see around two starters at 84-86. Two starters around 81-83. A closer around 85-86. Two relievers around 81-83. Then the rest of the pen is 75-80/81. These are velocities that they consistantly pitch at. Not just hit once out of ten pitches. By the way you didnt answer my question about how many NDSU, UND, or DI games you have attended.

[Willy]

This is my last post as well on this topic. As I said i will give you 81-86 for an average. Are there a number of guys who "hit" 85 on the gun. Definately. But above that in the 87+ range there are maybe 7-8 tops in the conference. I know Bielke and Calhoun at VC are around 87-89 in relief. On average you will see around two starters at 84-86. Two starters around 81-83. A closer around 85-86. Two relievers around 81-83. Then the rest of the pen is 75-80/81. These are velocities that they consistantly pitch at. Not just hit once out of ten pitches. By the way you didnt answer my question about how many NDSU, UND, or DI games you have attended.

I need one more post since I forgot to answer your question. Yes I have seen DAC games, D2 games including both NDSU and UND, and the finals of the D1 World Series in Omaha. I also know some of the coaches. Big deal! The only thing we really disagree on is the depth of the starting staffs on the TOP teams. I stand by my statement that there are definatly more than 2 pitchers on these teams that consistantly top 85 and that's where this conversation started.

I may have to retract that statement after the season as JC is the only team that had a good Florida trip, and pitching dominated most of their games. Mayville and Dickinson have had disappointing starts.

I certainly hope NDSU can turn their season around, not a great way to start the season against Oklahoma and Kansas. I would love to see them do well at the D1 level but we are in a tough place to recruit D1 talent. Many will agree that the top NAIA baseball programs are every bit as good as Division 2, lets just hope NDSU and UND for that matter can build their programs to be competitive at D1. Once that transition is complete, NDSU will leave the top DAC teams in the dust. It hasn't happened yet, but I'm pulling for them. Let's just agree to disagree.

[baseball1981]

well laber has like a 8. somethin era this year so i think his draft chances are probably over haha, seeeing how he cant throw a pitch for a strike from what ive heard and can see on the bison site

[utilityman51]

well laber has like a 8. somethin era this year so i think his draft chances are probably over haha, seeeing how he cant throw a pitch for a strike from what ive heard and can see on the bison site

since this is your opinion and thats all it is from what i know a lot of scouts dont look at stats like era they look at wins and losses and by how much they won and lost because if a guys on the mound and his team believes in him then the defense will get the job done regardless of how the pitcher pitches

[baseball1981]

isint he 0-3 or 1-3 lol

[bison95]

um laber beat minnesota... he didnt get the win, but he only allowed 2 runs and left the game in great shape for bushland to come in and shut the door to get the win

[baseball1981]

ok lets see him get some wins and get the ERA under 8 then start talking about how good he is

[baseball]

hows Lorenz doing down at Iowa Western? i looked at the roster and it says he was SOY.....i remember someone else winning the award but ok...

[baseball1981]

hows Lorenz doing down at Iowa Western? i looked at the roster and it says he was SOY.....i remember someone else winning the award but ok...

of the region.....ooo look at the stats if u wanna know haha

[InTheKnow]

2005- Neil Wagner- 8.07 ERA in 22 appearances, 30 walks in 35 innings. Drafted in the 22nd round. Scouts could care less about the stats for pitchers facing aluminum bats at the DI level. They grade them on their major league scale and that is what they draft on. Not the stat sheet. Stats in the ICCAC are not even close to comparable to Division I baseball. Just ask Chad Berg. He is hitting .217 with a 7 ERA after leading Muscatine in both categories.

Laber has allowed 4 ER or less in 6 innings of work in his last 3 starts against Central Michigan, Minnesota, and #11 Wichita State. His bad outing against Kansas the inning he allowed all his runs he struck out 4 guys swining in the inning and the head coach got ejected for arguing about the umpires strike zone.

[InTheKnow]

hows Lorenz doing down at Iowa Western? i looked at the roster and it says he was SOY.....i remember someone else winning the award but ok...

of the region.....ooo look at the stats if u wanna know haha

Athlete GP IP R ER Hits SO BB ERA
Tanner Lorenz 6.0 20.0 10.0 8.0 17.0 21.0 6.0 3.600

The way you have been talking about Laber incomparison to your stats I think i would worry about what you are doing alittle more in Iowa JUCO and less about someone else facing superior competition at the DI level. There is a big difference and it is called depth of the lineups and bench.