A Better Plan

The teams in Class AAA

A Better Plan

Postby heimer » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:11 pm

Screw it, I don't care how many people trash me on this board for the following suggestion about football.

And, before I get there, let me just say that I have been labeled a Valley City apologist in the past because I'm originally from there. This is not motivated by their likely assignment to Region II (west) of AA football. If the plan is the plan, that's where they belong, and they'll be just fine. I believe in more classes, not fewer, and I'm not going to abandon that premise because of a regional shift.

That all being said, the coaches got it wrong when they voted to expand AAA to 16 teams with the addition of Legacy and Sheyenne.

Seriously, I know some great people at the AAA level. But their desire to have 16 teams for no sake but variety poses problems. And if they can't find any way to make a 14 team schedule work, then we need smarter people coaching AAA football.

Now, the suggestion.

It's time for 5 classes of football. This is not about championships, playoff appearances, any of that. This is about quality of play in the regular season and like schools being like schools.

Now, before Bisonguy, the Schwab, and any of the other Heimer-bashers take their shots, saying, "Well, what's your suggestion if you're so smart....blah blah blah," (reference evolution of basketball from posts past), here it is.

Top three classes are 10 teams. 9 game schedule, everyone plays everyone, and the top 8 make the playoffs.

Here it is.

AAAA:
West: Minot, Century, Bismarck, Mandan, Williston
East: West Fargo, Davies, Red River, South, Central

AAA:
West: Dickinson, Legacy, Watford City, Belcourt, St. Marys
East: North, Sheyenne, Jamestown, Devils Lake, Wahpeton

AA:
West: Valley City, Griggs/Barnes et al, Stanley, Beulah, Dickinson Trinity
East: Grafton, Shanley, Central Cass, Lisbon, Enderlin-Maple Valley

A: (20)
West: Harvey, Berthold, Des Lacs, Bottineau, Standing Rock, Belfield, Hazen, Garrison, Rugby, Kenmare
East: Kindred, Hillsboro-Central Valley, E-E-K, Park River, Carrington, Larimore, Lakota, Oak Grove, May-Port, Northern Cass

9: The rest.

Let the opt-ups sort out the rest: I would see, in this scenario, Shanley goes AAA, Minot Ryan goes AA, Oakes goes A as they have declared they will now. In this scenario:

Add Shanley to AAA east. Would typically displace St. Marys, but St. Marys would likely opt up also. Belcourt down, Jamestown to west AAA.

Add Belcourt and Minot Ryan to AA west. Valley City and Griggs-Barnes-Everyone-Who-Needs-A-Home-Till-Hope-Page-Finley-Sharon-Can't-Field-A-Team-In-Two-Years-And-They-Talk-Griggs-Into-Getting-Remarried go to east. Lisbon and Enderlin-Maple Valley down.

Lisbon, Enderlin-Maple Valley, and Oakes to A east. Carrington go west, Kenmare down. May-Port and Northern Cass down.

I believe this creates a ton of balance, gives teams more options for fielding teams or choosing co-ops, and finds some natural breaks in enrollment for classification.

Yes, I know, travel travel travel. Again, you do it every other year. Top three classes playing everyone, no mystery. A playing everyone in region. Travel just isn't a reason to hate this. And it's one more title game for our lovely Bison Teammakers to clear, so, we'll have to have two games Friday and three Saturday. Oh the struggle to find a weekend when they are gone. If they can't, send it to GF for an extra year, and to H#ll with the Fargodome.

Fire away. I'll schedule a counseling session for the mental damage your comments are about to do later this week.
God is bigger than football.
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Re: A Better Plan

Postby mindovermatter » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:10 pm

You have got to be mental. Thinking Williston would be in a higher division than Dickinson. I see a very good game this fall against the Midgets and Century. I had that Century only has about 12 seniors returning.
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Re: A Better Plan

Postby lovwatchingsports » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:05 pm

Do not see where he said that Dickinson would not give anybody a game. Looks like he was going size.
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Re: A Better Plan

Postby irisheel » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:38 pm

You don't plan divisions by how good or bad teams are. I like this plan, pretty well thought out.
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Re: A Better Plan

Postby PrepFBrules » Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:30 am

Makes sense to me. You obviously put some thought into it. My only "concern" is, does it diminish the prestige of the playoffs/title games? Not saying does or doesn't, just a thought. I agree with irisheel, you don't plan divisions by how good teams are, especially in the smaller schools, a 2-7 team can easily be 7-2 the next year.
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Re: A Better Plan

Postby braves84 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:39 pm

Does anybody have any idea when watford is going to make the move up in football and basketball?
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Re: A Better Plan

Postby Indy5 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:56 pm

braves84 wrote:Does anybody have any idea when watford is going to make the move up in football and basketball?

With our current system, Watford will never be AAA. They might have to move up to class A basketball at some point, but they won't get bumped in football. If you look at AA, its about half class A basketball teams.
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Re: A Better Plan

Postby NDplayin » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:14 pm

Ah, my dear friend Heimer- I've been gone so long that I had to blow the dust off my keyboard to begin.

Ready for a shock? I like much of Heimer's proposed plan. I also agree with him on two fronts- I think ND prep football needs a make over, and I was disappointed in the new plan. The one big difference between us is that he thinks top-down, and I think bottom-up.

As I've bitterly opposed a 3-class basketball system in the past, he will be surprised to learn that I'm not opposed to adding a division to football. They are two very different games, and having 11 players on the field at once with 22 starting positions (opposed to 5) drastically changes the way enrollment impacts the ability to compete- but that's a discussion for another time.

I would like to a class where Jamestown and Devils Lake can play with similar sized schools. I sympathize with the tough spot they are in under the current 4 division system- i.e. either get pounded by schools you have no legitimate prayer of being consistently competitive with, or pound of schools who have no legitimate shot of consistently competing with you. The problem is that the landscape of North Dakota doesn't offer a lot of schools that would fit into a class that would fit well for those 2, and while it's not perfect (nothing ever will be) Heimer's 10-10 idea comes as close as any other idea I've seen.

My only problem with Heimer's plan (there had to be one) is at the bottom- which is precisely where I think the biggest problem in North Dakota football is at the bottom, and I think it's precisely where the biggest fix is needed

Problem: Too many schools are playing 9-man in North Dakota

Disclaimer: I love 9 man- I would support a 6 man class. I love the way 9 man allows an individual school to keep its football identity. Even more, I love the way 9 man increases the opportunities for young men to compete rather than decreasing those opportunities via a co-op that spans 100 miles and requires a travel commitment that equals hours a day. I want North Dakota to always have a strong 9 man class.

The reality: As it stands now, the strong 9-man class which I WISH we had is cluttered and dominated by schools that should be fielding 11 man teams.We have too many schools with 11 man enrollments hiding in the 9 man division. I don't know what they are hiding from, but they are definitely hiding. I'd assume each school has their own reasons- maybe their hiding from the big bad school whom they think would thump them if they were 11 man, maybe they are making excuses for terrible participation numbers, maybe they just enjoy being the big kid on the block (who can blame them). None-the-less, if you are big enough to play 11 man, you should play 11 man.

Solution: A hard-line enrollment cutoff- You can not play 9 man unless your male enrollment falls below a certain line for 2 years in a row. If you are over the line, even barely, you are big enough to field an 11 man team.

I would set the line at a male enrollment of 65. Big classes come and go and so do small classes, but with a male enrollment of 65 you'd average out to have 16 boys per class (rounding down). If even half of the boys in each class go out (and I consider 50% to be a pathetic participating rate for football), then you have 8 boys out for football per class. Granted not all 8 are likely to be varsity level athletes, but if you put your 5 best seniors - 5 best juniors - and 1 stud sophomore on the field you should have 11 guys capable of competing in the smallest 11 man division and you should still have some capable seniors, juniors, and even sophomores ready to play in a reserve role.

In a nut shell, I feel that with 65 boys and even a pathetic 50% participation rate you are capable of being in the lowest 11 man class. If for some reason you can't, you should probably look in your own backyard for the source of the problem rather than blame the system. There are currently 14 schools bigger than 65 males slated to play 9-man in the next plan, some as high as 77, 76, 75...



The Big PictureHere's what I would do- rather than look at it top-down- I'd work bottom up. Any school under 65 boys can play 9-man unless they wish to opt up. That would give us a class of 31 nine-man teams prior to opt-ups. Enrollments from 65 boys to 84 boys would make up Class A- there are 25 of those schools for the next rotation. Enrollments 85-134 would give Class AA 20 teams. Enrollments 135-399 makes 11 3A teams. Enrollments 400+ gives us 14 4A teams.

9-man- (64 and under)- 31 Teams
A- (65-84)- 25 Teams
AA- (85-134)- 20 Teams
AAA- (135-399)- 11 Teams
AAAA- (400 and up) 14 Teams
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