9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

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9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby Flip » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:36 am

Why is it that home field advantage between like seeds is determined by the year or possibly a coin flip? Sure it is great if you are region 2 or 5, but the other 4 regions get screwed. Since I’ve never seen this brought up before I’ll explain. For arguments sake let’s say Napoleon, Hillsboro, and Thompson have dominant teams and win their region multiple years in a row. Since Hillsboro is in region 2 they’ll have home field advantage every other year, the even years. In all odd number years Napoleon and Thompson only have home field advantage if they avoid playing each other. If they are to meet a coin flip will determine where they play. Why? Hillsboro is GUARANTEED every other year they have home field throughout while Napoleon and Thompson have to depend on a coin flip. Makes no sense. It is the same in the west except it is region 5 with the advantage. Obviously this affects more than just the number 1 seeds, but all the seeds.

Simple fix: the region that gets 2 byes has home field priority over the other 2 regions.
For example:
2010 region 1 has two byes and has priority over region 2 and 3. Region 2 has priority over region 3.
2011 region 2 has two byes and has priority over region 3 and 1. Region 3 has priority over region 1.
2012 region 3 has two byes and priority over regions 1 and 2. Region 1 has priority over region 2.

With this fix you would avoid a 2 seed having a bye and then going on the road in the 2nd round.

There is one more thing I dislike about the current format, but I haven’t come up with a solution yet to fix the problem. When I do I’ll let you know.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby Divide & Conquer » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:52 am

Flip wrote:With this fix you would avoid a 2 seed having a bye and then going on the road in the 2nd round.

Is getting a bye and then going on the road a problem? I'd say you already had the advantage of a free ride and are going to play another #2 seed. Where is the problem?
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby Flip » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:59 am

Divide & Conquer wrote:Is getting a bye and then going on the road a problem?

Didn't say it was, but it is unusual imo.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby cubsfan » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:34 am

I say it is flawed but it better than the old system when only two teams out of each region would go on to the playoffs
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:14 pm

They should go to a 4 region system with 10 teams in each region. Nine game regular season for everyone. Top 4 from each region make the playoffs. No byes and no confusion. It would make qualifying for the playoffs an accomplishment.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby Divide & Conquer » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:07 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:They should go to a 4 region system with 10 teams in each region. Nine game regular season for everyone. Top 4 from each region make the playoffs. No byes and no confusion. It would make qualifying for the playoffs an accomplishment.

Good call!
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:37 pm

Divide & Conquer wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:They should go to a 4 region system with 10 teams in each region. Nine game regular season for everyone. Top 4 from each region make the playoffs. No byes and no confusion. It would make qualifying for the playoffs an accomplishment.

Good call!


I agree that seems like it would make things a lot easier
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:30 pm

Well thank you! But honestly, how realistic would 4 regions be? I think last time I counted we had around 42-44 9man teams in the state. Washburn and Wilton are going to together next year so that takes away two. Wells Co is going with Harvey so there's another one. I've heard talk about Drake (Tri Co.) going somewhere, too. Any other 9man co-ops in the works for next year? I know a few teams have moved up a division and a couple more moved down to replace them, but that's a wash. I think 4 regions is something that would be easy to do.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby Flip » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:44 pm

cubsfan wrote:I say it is flawed but it better than the old system when only two teams out of each region would go on to the playoffs

I know they added more teams to the playoffs in '97, but was there something unfair about it prior to that? That is my biggest problem with the current format, it is flat out unfair to 4 of the 6 regions.

ndlionsfan wrote:They should go to a 4 region system with 10 teams in each region. Nine game regular season for everyone. Top 4 from each region make the playoffs. No byes and no confusion. It would make qualifying for the playoffs an accomplishment.

Nothing wrong with this, but if you have a cookie cutter 9-man system A, AA or AAA won't be.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:27 am

What do you mean by that? We're basically down to 40 teams left in 9man right now. If they were split into 4 regions that would give some flexibility because it would work good with anywhere between 32-40 teams.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby football45 » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:47 am

I have heard it is GOING to happen

The only downfall is week 1 is just as important as Week 9, there are no Pre-season/non conference games to get the kinks out, but good coaching will trump that i guess.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:51 am

I just checked the football divisions on the NDHSAA website for the next two year plan and there are exactly 40 9man teams.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby Hinsa » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:49 pm

If you look at the way the teams are organized in the pdf on the NDHSAA website, it certainly looks like there will be 4 regions. The list has 4 groupings of largest to smallest.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:12 pm

I never noticed that. The first group there only has 9 and the second has 11. I'm thinking they have a mistake with where they put Hankinson. Right now they are in the same group as North Border, when I'm guessing they belong up in the top group with other teams in their area. Of course out west there are some major distances with travel - Divide Co and New Rockford in the same group and Bowman and Drake in the same group. I'm sure there could be some rearranging, but I'm sure there's no way to get around all the travel.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby Flip » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:16 pm

Hinsa wrote:If you look at the way the teams are organized in the pdf on the NDHSAA website, it certainly looks like there will be 4 regions. The list has 4 groupings of largest to smallest.

Link? I find some 9-man lists, but they're all grouped together.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby baseball » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:11 pm

football45 wrote:I have heard it is GOING to happen

The only downfall is week 1 is just as important as Week 9, there are no Pre-season/non conference games to get the kinks out, but good coaching will trump that i guess.


I dont see that as a downfall. I would like to see the teams rewarded for being ready early rather that waiting a few weeks to get rolling.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby Indy5 » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:17 pm

ndlionsfan wrote: but I'm sure there's no way to get around all the travel.

And there lies the biggest problem. Everyone hates travel so much that it causes an uproar when things want to be rearranged.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:38 pm

Flip wrote:
Hinsa wrote:If you look at the way the teams are organized in the pdf on the NDHSAA website, it certainly looks like there will be 4 regions. The list has 4 groupings of largest to smallest.

Link? I find some 9-man lists, but they're all grouped together.


http://www.ndhsaa.org/files/11_12_FB_Division.pdf

They aren't grouped into regions exactly, but if you look at the enrollments they are grouped into 4 regions going from largest to smallest in each region.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby Flip » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:46 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:http://www.ndhsaa.org/files/11_12_FB_Division.pdf

They aren't grouped into regions exactly, but if you look at the enrollments they are grouped into 4 regions going from largest to smallest in each region.

Thank you.

What is the currect tie breaking procedure in a 3 way tie, point differential?
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby Divide & Conquer » Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:55 am

The travel is the major downfall. At least with the current system, the travel doesn't get bad until the playoffs, and that is done on Saturdays. Travelling early in the season, even on Saturdays, is a severe problem for farm families trying to harvest.
As far as being ready at the begining of the season, how is that supposed to happen? Isn't there a restriction on practices over the summer? Even if that is relaxed, it's more conflict for the farm kids.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby ndlionsfan » Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:26 am

Flip wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:http://www.ndhsaa.org/files/11_12_FB_Division.pdf

They aren't grouped into regions exactly, but if you look at the enrollments they are grouped into 4 regions going from largest to smallest in each region.

Thank you.

What is the currect tie breaking procedure in a 3 way tie, point differential?


I think each region sets their own tie break procedures, but the most common is point differential.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby Flip » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:11 am

Divide & Conquer wrote:The travel is the major downfall. At least with the current system, the travel doesn't get bad until the playoffs, and that is done on Saturdays. Travelling early in the season, even on Saturdays, is a severe problem for farm families trying to harvest.

Wouldn't DC be one of the least affected teams if they move to a 4 region format?
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby Hinsa » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:49 am

ndlionsfan wrote:
Flip wrote:Thank you.

What is the currect tie breaking procedure in a 3 way tie, point differential?


I think each region sets their own tie break procedures, but the most common is point differential.

I know that Region 2 is point differential among the tied teams. Had that situation just a couple of years ago.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby Divide & Conquer » Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:30 pm

Flip wrote:
Divide & Conquer wrote:The travel is the major downfall. At least with the current system, the travel doesn't get bad until the playoffs, and that is done on Saturdays. Travelling early in the season, even on Saturdays, is a severe problem for farm families trying to harvest.

Wouldn't DC be one of the least affected teams if they move to a 4 region format?

Being the farthest northwest, that's highly unlikely, but actually irrelevant. The point is valid for all teams, but more so for the west.
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Re: 9-MAN PLAYOFF FORMAT FLAWED

Postby witherspoon » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:49 pm

does anyone have the brackets?
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