9 man record?

by **homer** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:56 am

i dont think anyone wasnt for a kid having success but being up by that and he gets hurt then how successful is the team going to be without a player that is as important as him there are other kids that have taken snaps at rb not just 2

by **Ocho Siete** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:09 pm

Anyone ever seen Friday Night Lights?

by **Hinsa** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:15 pm

Napoleon has 7 kids listed on their roster as RBs or FBs. They must have had someone to put in for Gross. What were they going to do if he got injured?

466 yards IS quite an accomplishment. Good for him. What I disagree with is the ethics of getting 466 yards in a 42-6 blowout.

If we follow this philosphy, then Gion should have stayed in against Wilton-Wing and gotten 600 yards. Instead, Mott-Regent got a comfortable lead, Gion got 200+ yards and 3 scores, and was pulled. It is called compassion for your opponent.

by **rep** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:42 pm

Hinsa wrote:Napoleon has 7 kids listed on their roster as RBs or FBs. They must have had someone to put in for Gross. What were they going to do if he got injured?

466 yards IS quite an accomplishment. Good for him. What I disagree with is the ethics of getting 466 yards in a 42-6 blowout.

If we follow this philosphy, then Gion should have stayed in against Wilton-Wing and gotten 600 yards. Instead, Mott-Regent got a comfortable lead, Gion got 200+ yards and 3 scores, and was pulled. It is called compassion for your opponent.

football is a sport that most people get very limited time playing. it isn't a sport you can spend your life fine-tuning like golf or tennis, even basketball to some extent. i have a problem with a team that is good having to pull starters frequently and deny those kids time on the field. let em play.

i also think that teams that frequently pull starters at halftime in a blowout aren't conditioned for when they have to go four quarters. not specifically physically either...learning how to collect yourself at halftime and then head back onto the field in the third quarter isn't something that just happens.

injuries are always a potential threat, that is one thing i would worry about. but, as a coach, that is always a potential problem to deal with. if he feels the kid is doing all right, in this case gross is the kind of kid that seems to want the ball as many times as he can get it, by all means.

there is also something to be said for if you don't want to get stomped, get better as a team and get better as a program. use those thumpings as motivation, not as an excuse.

by **Hinsa** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:02 pm

Rep,

Very well stated. That's the kind of well thought out reasoning that makes for good discussion. I appreciate your position. I respectfully disagree with it.

We are not just teaching football in these games, we are teaching life lessons. You work hard, you prepare, you play hard, and when victory is secured you respect your opponent by backing off.

I believe that in the course of a season there will be plenty of opportunities to go full-out for 4 quarters. And if getting restarted after halftime is an issue - and that is a good point you make - put the starters out there for one or two series in the 3rd quarter and then get them out of the game so your younger players can gain experience for the future.

Perhaps the touchdown drive that carried over to the 4th quarter WAS Napoleon's second possession of the half. It could have been one of those 8 minute, clock consuming drives. If that's the case, the situation becomes more acceptable in my opinion.

It is a very tough call to make - when to call off the dogs yet keep your team ready. My hope is that every coach keeps their opponent in mind and makes the appropriate decision.

For those that do run it up - may you experience the other side of the equation sometime.

by **NDinPHX** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:07 pm

rep,

Isn't that Spurrier's philosophy? That is fine and dandy in the college game, but kids can get hurt (on the losing end) and neighbors from seperated towns can get quite angry and outraged. Perhaps, Coach Benson should have left Gion in and broke the national 9-man record, or perhaps he did the right thing and kept everything in check.

by **rep** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:48 pm

NDinPHX wrote:rep,

Isn't that Spurrier's philosophy? That is fine and dandy in the college game, but kids can get hurt (on the losing end) and neighbors from seperated towns can get quite angry and outraged. Perhaps, Coach Benson should have left Gion in and broke the national 9-man record, or perhaps he did the right thing and kept everything in check.

little bit of a rant here and i'm making some pretty broad generalizations. it should be pointed out, these aren't singling out a specific school or program.

every coach has to answer to him/herself and the school that pays him/her. as far as neighbors from seperated towns...give me a break. people have to take responsibility for themselves. if a coach is worried about billy joe and jim bob not seeing eye to eye because of a game score, i think that coach needs to re-adjust why he/she got into coaching to begin with.

with injuries...that is the nature of the game. if a kid goes into playing football thinking he won't be the one to break an arm/leg/neck, he's kidding himself. it happens. happens to first stringers in games, happens to second-string in practice. most of the time you do everything right and you get caught up in a pile and something bends the way it shouldn't. i would certainly never give a thumbs up to someone going out to injure someone else. but in every play in football there is quite a bit of violence going on and injuries are going to happen. i'm the one on the sidelines who cringes at big hits because i don't see the big hit, i see the kid that crumples.

sports are not about fans. they are about the athletes and they are about the teams. sports are about success and failure, and how you deal with both. if you learn how to deal with losing, correctly, you will win (and i'm not talking about the score of some stupid game). if you learn how to deal with winning, correctly, you will win (again, not a score). if you don't, you didn't get anything out of it...congrats, you just wasted x amount of years and haven't bettered your surroundings. hopefully somewhere along the line something lights a fire under and makes you productive.

somewhere this important fact got lost and a game score became more about mommy and daddy making sure their son/daughter had fun and felt good about themselves regardless if they worked for it or not. at some point a scoreboard dictated if a kid learned something about life and about himself. at some point, being good at sports was suddenly a substitution for being a good person, or a successful person.

am i more impressed that a kid broke some high school record or that after the game he talked up his fullback or said he couldn't talk long because he had to catch the end of his sister's volleyball match? that isn't a hard question. team sports teach you the value of a support system. they pick you up when you fall and they should keep you humble when you succeed.

if i'm coaching a team, i am more insulted by the opposition putting in their second team because the victory is wrapped up (last minute or two or final offensive drive...sure, i have no problem there, do what you've got to do) than i am letting starters go out and play the game. but i've both played in and watched games where the starters were done at halftime. and as far as i could tell, the game was a waste for both sides.

if there are kids that don't want to be on the field because the score is 42-0, then i think they probably didn't want to be on the field when the score was 0-0. if you don't have a passion for the game, if you aren't willing to push yourself, guess what, you are going to get rolled by the person who does. if you want to play a game and don't keep score, by all means do it, but don't whine when the other team that is keeping score hangs a big number on your little number.

as far as being spurrier's philosophy...dunno...i don't watch him much because i don't like the spread offense.

end of rant.

tough to say with the high school versus college debate.

when i was in high school i played in close games, blown out, blow outs. loved em all. couldn't get enough. close games meant i was probably going to be hurting too much to do anything saturday. blow outs and blown out - hit the weights on saturday for a good flush workout and get ready for film on monday.

ask any senior that just got done with his last high school football game and all he'd want is five more minutes added to the fourth quarter. just one more drive. one more stand. that is what i've found. when its over, most just want a little more. so why deny that? that is what i'm driving at.

by **basketballer** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:21 pm

js2125 wrote:I was at the game and here is what I saw. In no way did it seem to be deliberate. First the defense was stacked heavy inside the ends, all gaps were filled with tackles and behind them were 2 to 3 LBs on every play, darn near impossible to run a fullback with any efficience or success. Hense gross getting his carries to the outside edges. Second once he did get by the line there was daylight and many runs became 12-20 yard gains. Another influence was that there was a 30 mile an hour wind blowing straight down the field which made it tough to pass and also allowed ellendale to pin napoleon down inside the 5 on 3 occasions making for three very long drives. You will see that gross did score one touchdown in the 4th but that was the last play of a drive that continued into the fourth quarter and ended on the first play in the 4th quarter, so this was done primarily over 3 quarters. Also, he had no backup that night, he was injured.

So to sum it up, I don't feel it was intentional. you take a look back at napoleons history and they are a run dominated team, 50 plus carries a game is not unusual it just happened this time that it was one player, due to circimstances getting the carries. Look back at the championship game, granted that was 4 quarters and playing a better team, their tailback had 43 carries. I think it just turned out that way and he along with his offensive line had a very good night.

Also, look at other box scores, Other players such as Gion and Kosel are playing and carrying the ball when scores are similar.

by **rep** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:23 pm

well, yeah...or that.

by **TJayU** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:27 pm

Perhaps the touchdown drive that carried over to the 4th quarter WAS Napoleon's second possession of the half. It could have been one of those 8 minute, clock consuming drives. If that's the case, the situation becomes more acceptable in my opinion.

I was there, but I can't remember for sure...but given that Napoleon was getting 10-20 yards a pop, I doubt it was an overly lengthy drive.

by **Hinsa** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:31 am

basketballer wrote:
js2125 wrote:Also, he had no backup that night, he was injured.
Napoleon has 7 kids listed on their roster as RBs or FBs. They must have had someone to put in for Gross. What were they going to do if he got injured?

Rep has made some wonderful, impassioned statements about this issue. He has stated his position on this issue very well and given me some very good food for thought. I appreciate that discourse very much and I was ready to step out of this thread feeling that the issue had been addressed very thoughtfully.

But now basketballer brings up the statement about no backup again. I CANNOT let this statement go. Read the statement above about 7 RBs or FBs on their roster.

No backup? Come on, that's the weakest point in this whole thread. I repeat my earlier point - what was Napoleon going to do if Gross got injured? Play with 8 players? I think not. SOMEBODY was Gross' backup that night. Obviously he had SOMEBODY backing him up because he DID come out of the game at some point. Did they play with 8 players when they took Gross out? No.

So can we agree that "no backup" is a weak arguement?

As long as I'm at it, I want to throw out one more point: I was at a game a couple of weeks ago where the score was 35-0 at the half. The team that was ahead sat their starters the ENTIRE second half. The final score was 35-14.

I was told that the winning school received an email from the opponent the next week. The email thanked the winning school for "calling off the dogs" and giving the team that was behind a chance to compete in the second half. Talk about 2 towns gaining respect for each other - the winning town knows that the losing town appreciated the sportsmanlike gesture of keeping the starters off the field. The losing town gained respect for the winning town because of the sportsmanlike gesture.

To me, that's what sports is all about. Competing, winning, losing, and learning about sportsmanship in the face of all the emotions that go along with sports.

by **homer** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:58 am

the year richland wenr 12-0 there was probably 8 games where the starters didnt play much in the second half i think thays helps your future giving the younger players some reps and also saving your starters from injuries

by **baller01** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:23 am

For all of you that are trying to downplay Gross's game. You all are sick. I don't care who you are and how good you may be, you can't down play 466 yards in a game. Sure he had 45 carries, but he gained over 10 yards all game long. Sure you see some guys have 150 yards on 10 carries and people say "Oh he would have had 675 yards If he would've got 45 carries." That is bull. That isn't how sports work. The only thing that matters are the final stats. Gross ran for almost 500 yards. 1,000 yards is a yearly goal for almost all running backs and he got almost half of that in one game. Sure Ellendale isn't a great team, but it isn't like they were out there purposely trying to get him that many yards. He was getting over 10 yards a carry, why would you quit running? He didn't even play the 4th quarter.

If you have ever rushed for more then 466 yards in your life, which I bet 99.9% of the people on this site haven't done, then you can down play his performance. But if you haven't, shut up and give some credit to the most amazing performance by a running back this year.

by **bballfan_05** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:14 pm

baller01 wrote:For all of you that are trying to downplay Gross's game. You all are sick. I don't care who you are and how good you may be, you can't down play 466 yards in a game. Sure he had 45 carries, but he gained over 10 yards all game long. Sure you see some guys have 150 yards on 10 carries and people say "Oh he would have had 675 yards If he would've got 45 carries." That is bull. That isn't how sports work. The only thing that matters are the final stats. Gross ran for almost 500 yards. 1,000 yards is a yearly goal for almost all running backs and he got almost half of that in one game. Sure Ellendale isn't a great team, but it isn't like they were out there purposely trying to get him that many yards. He was getting over 10 yards a carry, why would you quit running? He didn't even play the 4th quarter.

If you have ever rushed for more then 466 yards in your life, which I bet 99.9% of the people on this site haven't done, then you can down play his performance. But if you haven't, shut up and give some credit to the most amazing performance by a running back this year.

That's the only reason why I posted this, because it is an amazing accomplishment, just wondering if anyone has ever rushed for more yards in a game or not.

by **Hinsa** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:20 pm

Baller01, you're missing the point. The point is that he should have never gotten 45 carries in the first place. Leading by 30+ points and still keeping your stud in the game into the 4th quarter is, to use your term, sick, in my opinion. And he DID play in the 4th quarter. An earlier post said he scored his last TD in the 4th quarter.

by **Ocho Siete** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:34 pm

Just outta curiousity...did Ellendale keep their starters in the game the whole time Gross was in? There's been teams that keep their starters in even while the other team has their backups in (I won't say which teams, cuz if I do people here just might lose it), and was just curious if that happened here.

Either way, congrats Gross. No one here is trying to downplay your game, don't worry...we're just a little critical of your coach's integrity.

by **baller01** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:23 am

Hinsa wrote:Baller01, you're missing the point. The point is that he should have never gotten 45 carries in the first place. Leading by 30+ points and still keeping your stud in the game into the 4th quarter is, to use your term, sick, in my opinion. And he DID play in the 4th quarter. An earlier post said he scored his last TD in the 4th quarter.

Evan said they put there JV in the WHOLE fourth quarter so... I guess if you have someone more close to the source then that I will believe you. Back to the carries, yes, probably shouldn't have had that many carries. But it isn't like baseball where coaches have a pitching count on a pitcher. Coaches don't say "Ok Gross, you are getting 32 carries tonight, or 39 carries." He was getting 10 yards a pop. Why would you not keep running?

If you are critizing his coach, go for it. But try not to dimish what he did.

by **Hinsa** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:42 am

Nope, not going after Gross at all. 466 yards is a great accomplishment. Just questioning the decision to leave him in the game so late in a blowout. Sportsmanship......

by **baller01** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:57 am

Hinsa wrote:Nope, not going after Gross at all. 466 yards is a great accomplishment. Just questioning the decision to leave him in the game so late in a blowout. Sportsmanship......

I played in a game this year where my team was up 28-0 going into the 4th quarter. We dominated the whole game and us starters were pulled with about 9-10 minutes left in the 4th. The team we were playing didn't pull there starters and scored twice on our JV fairly quickly. They then onside kicked it and got the ball back with about 2-3 minutes left. All of us defensive starters had to then rush to put our pads back on and go out and play when we hadn't played in nearly a quarter. There are two parts to it...

by **TJayU** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:25 am

baller01 wrote:
Hinsa wrote:Nope, not going after Gross at all. 466 yards is a great accomplishment. Just questioning the decision to leave him in the game so late in a blowout. Sportsmanship......

I played in a game this year where my team was up 28-0 going into the 4th quarter. We dominated the whole game and us starters were pulled with about 9-10 minutes left in the 4th. The team we were playing didn't pull there starters and scored twice on our JV fairly quickly. They then onside kicked it and got the ball back with about 2-3 minutes left. All of us defensive starters had to then rush to put our pads back on and go out and play when we hadn't played in nearly a quarter. There are two parts to it...

28-0 is not the same as 42-0, especially when you're the number-one team in the state. I would assume they'd be able to prevent a 43-point 4th quarter comeback, when they hadn't given up that much all season.

by **Hinsa** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:38 am

baller01 wrote:
Hinsa wrote:Nope, not going after Gross at all. 466 yards is a great accomplishment. Just questioning the decision to leave him in the game so late in a blowout. Sportsmanship......

I played in a game this year where my team was up 28-0 going into the 4th quarter. We dominated the whole game and us starters were pulled with about 9-10 minutes left in the 4th. The team we were playing didn't pull there starters and scored twice on our JV fairly quickly. They then onside kicked it and got the ball back with about 2-3 minutes left. All of us defensive starters had to then rush to put our pads back on and go out and play when we hadn't played in nearly a quarter. There are two parts to it...

Whew! That's a tough one. Every game and situation is different. In your case in the game you are describing, I'd be disgusted with the team that was behind taking advantage of your JV.

You are right, there are 2 sides to it. I appreciate the gesture your team made by putting in your JV. Then it's up to the coach who is behind to respect that and not take advantage of your JV. I can see leaving starters in when you're behind to get a score or two to give your team a little boost. But onside kicking and trying to win the game against your JV when you took your foot off the throttle by sitting your starters - that's just as bad as running up the score.

Your team did the right thing - you didn't run up the score. I'm glad it didn't cost you a win!

by **Mr. Utility** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:11 am

Tyler Allery, of dunseith had 477 yards rushing this year in one game against Towner, Granville, upham. I would think that is some sore of record, he is a great athlete. Altho he dominated the game the titants ended up winning the Dragons..

by **ndlionsfan** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:39 am

Mr. Utility wrote:Tyler Allery, of dunseith had 477 yards rushing this year in one game against Towner, Granville, upham. I would think that is some sore of record, he is a great athlete. Altho he dominated the game the titants ended up winning the Dragons..

This kid is a very gifted RB. I saw the game he played against Maddock and he basically carried the team on his back for that vistory. Don't know any stats from that game, but I was very impressed with his ability. If he played on a better team a lot of people would know about him and be talking about him.

by **WHITE** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:34 am

baller01 wrote:For all of you that are trying to downplay Gross's game. You all are sick. I don't care who you are and how good you may be, you can't down play 466 yards in a game. Sure he had 45 carries, but he gained over 10 yards all game long. Sure you see some guys have 150 yards on 10 carries and people say "Oh he would have had 675 yards If he would've got 45 carries." That is bull. That isn't how sports work. The only thing that matters are the final stats. Gross ran for almost 500 yards. 1,000 yards is a yearly goal for almost all running backs and he got almost half of that in one game. Sure Ellendale isn't a great team, but it isn't like they were out there purposely trying to get him that many yards. He was getting over 10 yards a carry, why would you quit running? He didn't even play the 4th quarter.

If you have ever rushed for more then 466 yards in your life, which I bet 99.9% of the people on this site haven't done, then you can down play his performance. But if you haven't, shut up and give some credit to the most amazing performance by a running back this year.

best performance ive seen is lance johannson 395 yds on 30 carries for lakota against a real team in north border in the alerus center for the region title... johannson is the best back in the state hands down

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