Favorite offense

[Wild Wolves]

That is where coaching and scheme come into play.  A well organized coach can overcome the talent(at least if they are close talent wise).

[GRIDIRON GURU]

Unfortunatly, it is not the x's and o's its the jack's and the joe's.  And if the other teams jack's and joes's are better it doesn't matter how good your x's and o's are.

HOG WASH!!

You have never seen an upset in high school sports?

You have never seen a team with better talent get out played and out coached?

You have never seen a kid with lesser talent be coached up?

You have never seen a kid with the heart of a lion beat a kid with better skills with no heart?

You have never seen a team with great team chemistry lacking size and speed beat a team of talented individuals?

You have never seen an ignorant coach grab bag plays on offense and stay in the same defense no matter what the other team throws at them?

Unfortunately I find that it is very rare for a high school coach to do anything extra that would benefit his program.

Let me answer some replies in advance.

It's not as easy as it looks to coach high school kids. Exactly! that is my point, it's not easy it takes a lot of extra time, commitment and work.

I don't get paid to open and sit in the weight room, go to team camps, attend coaching clinics. If money was an issue you would not have taken up or need to look at your chosen vocation.

I have kids with bad attitudes, kids who will not go out, single sport athletes, no support by administration, parents, or staff. Lets take a look at the root of the problem, do I only lick my chops when there is a talented group of jimmy's and joe's coming up. Or do I make myself and my program visible and admirable to boys from 1st grade on up who can't wait to be part of a winning program.  Or do I tell the media and boosters that we are not going to be very good this year we are going to be small, inexperienced and slow, we hope to be competitive at the end of the year. Now is the time for these young men they want to make their mark and when a coach flat out tells them they stink they probably will.

I don't have a good staff to chose from. If you can't coach it, coach yourself, and your staff up and learn how.

You can talk all you want but it just can't be done. It can, and has been done. If you say it can't it for sure wont'.

 

If a coach does everything in his power to run a successful program from the bottom up he may not win every game but he will be scratching and clawing for a playoff spot every year.

 

[ndfbfan]

Unfortunatly, it is not the x's and o's its the jack's and the joe's.  And if the other teams jack's and joes's are better it doesn't matter how good your x's and o's are.

HOG WASH!!

You have never seen an upset in high school sports?

You have never seen a team with better talent get out played and out coached?

You have never seen a kid with lesser talent be coached up?

You have never seen a kid with the heart of a lion beat a kid with better skills with no heart?

You have never seen a team with great team chemistry lacking size and speed beat a team of talented individuals?

You have never seen an ignorant coach grab bag plays on offense and stay in the same defense no matter what the other team throws at them?

Unfortunately I find that it is very rare for a high school coach to do anything extra that would benefit his program.

Let me answer some replies in advance.

It's not as easy as it looks to coach high school kids. Exactly! that is my point, it's not easy it takes a lot of extra time, commitment and work.

I don't get paid to open and sit in the weight room, go to team camps, attend coaching clinics. If money was an issue you would not have taken up or need to look at your chosen vocation.

I have kids with bad attitudes, kids who will not go out, single sport athletes, no support by administration, parents, or staff. Lets take a look at the root of the problem, do I only lick my chops when there is a talented group of jimmy's and joe's coming up. Or do I make myself and my program visible and admirable to boys from 1st grade on up who can't wait to be part of a winning program.  Or do I tell the media and boosters that we are not going to be very good this year we are going to be small, inexperienced and slow, we hope to be competitive at the end of the year. Now is the time for these young men they want to make their mark and when a coach flat out tells them they stink they probably will.

I don't have a good staff to chose from. If you can't coach it, coach yourself, and your staff up and learn how.

You can talk all you want but it just can't be done. It can, and has been done. If you say it can't it for sure wont'.

 

If a coach does everything in his power to run a successful program from the bottom up he may not win every game but he will be scratching and clawing for a playoff spot every year.

 

Now, first off, let me say i don't necessarily disagree with some of the points you bring up. Just out of curiosity, are you a teacher also?? If you are, and still able to do all of the things you preach about, then you deserve a medal of honor and valor because you are the states best educator and coach. I'm not being sarcastic either. I like to think I put a lot of time into football, however, first and foremost I am an educator, as well as a basketball, track and field coach, husband and father of a little girl. My summers? Spent working so I can afford a mortgage, food and diapers. LOL   Honestly, I have time to get my athletes to a team camp at NDSU, and a passing league during the summer. I also find time to get my girls into a summer league and one team camp. Also attend coaches convention, and take extra classes for school. I'm not complaining. I'm simply stating that all those points you bring up are next to impossible if you want to continue being a good teacher, and staying married!!! Just my two cents. Like I said, I don't necessarily disagree with all of the points you mention, however, I do disagree with the application factor.

[Wild Wolves]

Much more difficult n small towns because as a teacher you have 4-6 preps and have additional travel time for leagues and camps.  Also the demands of coaching several sports.

[GRIDIRON GURU]

Unfortunately, it is not the x's and o's its the jack's and the joe's.  And if the other teams jack's and [url=#]joes's[/url] are better it doesn't matter how good your x's and o's are.

The above statement I have heard from so many coaches across the country it literally makes me sick to my stomach.

I may not be a teacher but I do have a full time job. I am accountable for my job, if I perform poorly at my job, I let down my company, fellow employees, my family and myself.

Now if I am a high school coach I have 14-60 young men who's dreams of athletic accomplishment are in 4 short years, yet in these four years they will talk about and reflect upon the rest of their lives.

If a coach uses the excuse, "It's not the x's and o's it's the jack's and the joes' what kind of message does that send to those young men.

The teaching and coaching profession is about as admirable of a job a person can have, and I have a lot of respect for that.

However I do see some coaches who just go through the motions and take for granted how huge of a impact they have on young peoples lives.

 

[COACHWEST]

Now, first off, let me say i don't necessarily disagree with some of the points you bring up. Just out of curiosity, are you a teacher also?? If you are, and still able to do all of the things you preach about, then you deserve a medal of honor and valor because you are the states best educator and coach. I'm not being sarcastic either. I like to think I put a lot of time into football, however, first and foremost I am an educator, as well as a basketball, track and field coach, husband and father of a little girl. My summers? Spent working so I can afford a mortgage, food and diapers. LOL   Honestly, I have time to get my athletes to a team camp at NDSU, and a passing league during the summer. I also find time to get my girls into a summer league and one team camp. Also attend coaches convention, and take extra classes for school. I'm not complaining. I'm simply stating that all those points you bring up are next to impossible if you want to continue being a good teacher, and staying married!!! Just my two cents. Like I said, I don't necessarily disagree with all of the points you mention, however, I do disagree with the application factor.

Very well put ndfbfan!!!  I also agree with guru about the "lack" of committment "some" coaches have to their programs and athletes, but a majority of teachers/coaches also have to take the time to remember what is their biggest commitment-----family.  Spouses and children do not come and go in 4-6 year cylces like students/athletes. 

Coaching is a juggling act.  Yes you owe it to the team, but you also owe it to the other team at home.

[bballfan_05]

Unfortunately, it is not the x's and o's its the jack's and the joe's.  And if the other teams jack's and [url=#]joes's[/url] are better it doesn't matter how good your x's and o's are.

The above statement I have heard from so many coaches across the country it literally makes me sick to my stomach.

I may not be a teacher but I do have a full time job. I am accountable for my job, if I perform poorly at my job, I let down my company, fellow employees, my family and myself.

Now if I am a high school coach I have 14-60 young men who's dreams of athletic accomplishment are in 4 short years, yet in these four years they will talk about and reflect upon the rest of their lives.

If a coach uses the excuse, "It's not the x's and o's it's the jack's and the joes' what kind of message does that send to those young men.

The teaching and coaching profession is about as admirable of a job a person can have, and I have a lot of respect for that.

However I do see some coaches who just go through the motions and take for granted how huge of a impact they have on young peoples lives.

 

I have to agree with your statement, from what I've seen, some coaches don't give kids the respect they deserve and basically don't give them a chance to suceed. Yes, athletic ability does factor in, but they also need to hold themselves accountable for not getting the team ready to the best of their ability. These coaches have the opportunity to show by leader skills that these kids can use in the real world by not giving up even when the scoreboard shows it, and more importantly, taking blame themselves instead of on the players which occurs way too often.

[ndfbfan]

Unfortunately, it is not the x's and o's its the jack's and the joe's.  And if the other teams jack's and [url=#]joes's[/url] are better it doesn't matter how good your x's and o's are.

The above statement I have heard from so many coaches across the country it literally makes me sick to my stomach.

I may not be a teacher but I do have a full time job. I am accountable for my job, if I perform poorly at my job, I let down my company, fellow employees, my family and myself.

Now if I am a high school coach I have 14-60 young men who's dreams of athletic accomplishment are in 4 short years, yet in these four years they will talk about and reflect upon the rest of their lives.

If a coach uses the excuse, "It's not the x's and o's it's the jack's and the joes' what kind of message does that send to those young men.

The teaching and coaching profession is about as admirable of a job a person can have, and I have a lot of respect for that.

However I do see some coaches who just go through the motions and take for granted how huge of a impact they have on young peoples lives.

 

I have to agree with your statement, from what I've seen, some coaches don't give kids the respect they deserve and basically don't give them a chance to suceed. Yes, athletic ability does factor in, but they also need to hold themselves accountable for not getting the team ready to the best of their ability. These coaches have the opportunity to show by leader skills that these kids can use in the real world by not giving up even when the scoreboard shows it, and more importantly, taking blame themselves instead of on the players which occurs way too often.

Its too bad when a coach does that. In our program, we give credit to the kids when we are successful, and we take the blame when we aren't. The respect aspect is another story. You give only what you get. I've seen too many athletes who may be talented but have no, and I mean no, self motivation whatsoever. I try with all I have to motivate, however, I cannot instill motivation in someone who does not have the desire. There has to be some give and take. A coach can watch film, scheme all he wants, but when it comes down to it, the players have to execute. That being said, even if they don't execute, a good coach will place the blame on himself and wonder "what could we or I have done" I really hope you didn't have an experience like you mentioned because that is too bad.

[bballfan_05]

Unfortunately, it is not the x's and o's its the jack's and the joe's.  And if the other teams jack's and [url=#]joes's[/url] are better it doesn't matter how good your x's and o's are.

The above statement I have heard from so many coaches across the country it literally makes me sick to my stomach.

I may not be a teacher but I do have a full time job. I am accountable for my job, if I perform poorly at my job, I let down my company, fellow employees, my family and myself.

Now if I am a high school coach I have 14-60 young men who's dreams of athletic accomplishment are in 4 short years, yet in these four years they will talk about and reflect upon the rest of their lives.

If a coach uses the excuse, "It's not the x's and o's it's the jack's and the joes' what kind of message does that send to those young men.

The teaching and coaching profession is about as admirable of a job a person can have, and I have a lot of respect for that.

However I do see some coaches who just go through the motions and take for granted how huge of a impact they have on young peoples lives.

 

I have to agree with your statement, from what I've seen, some coaches don't give kids the respect they deserve and basically don't give them a chance to suceed. Yes, athletic ability does factor in, but they also need to hold themselves accountable for not getting the team ready to the best of their ability. These coaches have the opportunity to show by leader skills that these kids can use in the real world by not giving up even when the scoreboard shows it, and more importantly, taking blame themselves instead of on the players which occurs way too often.

Its too bad when a coach does that. In our program, we give credit to the kids when we are successful, and we take the blame when we aren't. The respect aspect is another story. You give only what you get. I've seen too many athletes who may be talented but have no, and I mean no, self motivation whatsoever. I try with all I have to motivate, however, I cannot instill motivation in someone who does not have the desire. There has to be some give and take. A coach can watch film, scheme all he wants, but when it comes down to it, the players have to execute. That being said, even if they don't execute, a good coach will place the blame on himself and wonder "what could we or I have done" I really hope you didn't have an experience like you mentioned because that is too bad.

Well, it happens, and one gets stronger from it. I agree with alot of what you said. Some kids are not motavated at all and have all the athletic ability in the world, while others have no ability and all the heart.

[ND_Coach]

Unfortunatly, it is not the x's and o's its the jack's and the joe's.  And if the other teams jack's and joes's are better it doesn't matter how good your x's and o's are.

HOG WASH!!

You have never seen an upset in high school sports?

You have never seen a team with better talent get out played and out coached?

You have never seen a kid with lesser talent be coached up?

You have never seen a kid with the heart of a lion beat a kid with better skills with no heart?

You have never seen a team with great team chemistry lacking size and speed beat a team of talented individuals?

You have never seen an ignorant coach grab bag plays on offense and stay in the same defense no matter what the other team throws at them?

Unfortunately I find that it is very rare for a high school coach to do anything extra that would benefit his program.

First off I think the intent of the statement is being taken the wrong way and reading it again it is my fault for not expressing my thoughts clearer.  It is not intended to mean that you don't try, it is intended to mean that superior athletes will beat scheming most of the time.  And Gridiron you make the same argument when you said earlier that Tri-County and Richland would have been the top teams in the state regardless of what offense they ran (not necessarily the spread they ran that made them successful [the x's and o's] it was the players they had [the jacks and joes])

To answer your questions about yes there are upsets, yes more talented teams have been outplayed by teams with less talent, yes untalented kids can be coached up, yes players with heart and little talent will beat talent with no heart.  But, those things happen rarely and that is why they are special.  If you are a coach or a player on a team that is short on talent you work your butt off to hopefully have a moment like that.  A good cinderella story is awesome and inspiring, but it is not the norm.

About bad coaches not making adjustments:  I see it constantly, I have seen teams get destroyed because of it, but I have also seen teams win state championships despite of it.  If teams are succeding despite poor play calling that says a lot about the role talent plays.

 

[GRIDIRON GURU]

Thats a great reply,

And I will also concede that for instance Fargo South would have won AAA this year regardless of what scheme they would have ran, the scores might have been closer but they  would have still won State.

However there are some teams that are fairly talented but under achieve in epic proportions also.

There have been many state champions who did not necessarily have the best talent but were the best at what they did. Would you agree with that statement?

[ND_Coach]

Thats a great reply,

And I will also concede that for instance Fargo South would have won AAA this year regardless of what scheme they would have ran, the scores might have been closer but they  would have still won State.

However there are some teams that are fairly talented but under achieve in epic proportions also.

There have been many state champions who did not necessarily have the best talent but were the best at what they did. Would you agree with that statement?

Yes there are teams that are talented but underachieve, I can think of a few in the past couple of years.

Yes I would agree that there are teams that win despite not having the best talent, those are the teams that have moderate skilled players but work their butts off and would run through a wall if they were told to.

[GRIDIRON GURU]

Yes I would agree that there are teams that win despite not having the best talent, those are the teams that have moderate skilled players but work their butts off and would run through a wall if they were told to.

Now thats what I am talking about.

[COACHWEST]

And there is no sport like football to see heart make up for a lack of skill.

[busch3434]

yeah, i was part of the wyndmere team they hammered.....belquist was a heck of an athlete and apparently is now starting to challenge for playing time at ndsu

[busch3434]

i agree rep, there isn't a lineman alive that should love to pass block....run block is the most fun, but gotta disagree on the shotgun...my last season that was most of our snaps and i have to admit, probably the most fun i had but the easiest way for me to get out and block, then again every center has there own comfort zone.

[ndfan]

The offense I loved the most was FULL HOUSE baby. It was my favorite offense to run in high school.

[rep]

i agree rep, there isn't a lineman alive that should love to pass block....run block is the most fun, but gotta disagree on the shotgun...my last season that was most of our snaps and i have to admit, probably the most fun i had but the easiest way for me to get out and block, then again every center has there own comfort zone.

i wish i could have talked my coach into putting in the jeff christy offense where the center pulled and was out leading on a pitch or stretch play outside the tackles. would have loved to have been the guy leading the way out on the perimeter...maybe get a shot at a cornerback...oooooooooooooooooooooooo...unfortunately that whole 'jeff christy athleticism' thing wasn't in the cards. though i did always boast i was the fastest guy on the team for the first four yards (which probably wasn't true either, but you have to dream).

[busch3434]

i agree rep, there isn't a lineman alive that should love to pass block....run block is the most fun, but gotta disagree on the shotgun...my last season that was most of our snaps and i have to admit, probably the most fun i had but the easiest way for me to get out and block, then again every center has there own comfort zone.

i wish i could have talked my coach into putting in the jeff christy offense where the center pulled and was out leading on a pitch or stretch play outside the tackles. would have loved to have been the guy leading the way out on the perimeter...maybe get a shot at a cornerback...oooooooooooooooooooooooo...unfortunately that whole 'jeff christy athleticism' thing wasn't in the cards. though i did always boast i was the fastest guy on the team for the first four yards (which probably wasn't true either, but you have to dream).

back in my sophomore year we had a few plays where the center pulled....his name was carson klosterman, that was when we were still nine-man though

[GRIDIRON GURU]

The offense I loved the most was FULL HOUSE baby. It was my favorite offense to run in high school.

The full house T or the Dead T is making a come back in the state of Michigan, at least one class won a state championship this last fall running full house T.

 

[ndfan]

[user=1355]GRIDIRON GURU[/user] wrote:

The offense I loved the most was FULL HOUSE baby. It was my favorite offense to run in high school.

The full house T or the Dead T is making a come back in the state of Michigan, at least one class won a state championship this last fall running full house T.

Cavalier has run it for years and been pretty successful with it, I haven't seen many teams use it in ND. Anybody else in the state run the full house?

[GRIDIRON GURU]

I thought Cavalier was more of a Wing T team

I do not know anyone running the full house T.  Adams Edinburg Edmore ran a series of stack "I" and Watford ran some power "I"

[ND_Coach]

The offense I loved the most was FULL HOUSE baby. It was my favorite offense to run in high school.

The full house T or the Dead T is making a come back in the state of Michigan, at least one class won a state championship this last fall running full house T.

 

The Single Wing is making a comeback around the nation as well.

These old offenses can have success for awhile till till teams start seeing them week in and week out, then people will figure out how to best defend them.  The same thing happened with the spread option, it comes out and takes people by storm.  After a few years and numerous teams converting to it defenses start seeing it and schemes develop to counter it.  I would expect the popularity of the T to level off in Michigan as more teams start to go to it and other teams start to get used to the misdirection.  It is all part of the chessmatch that is football.

Same thing on the defensive side of the ball with the 3-5-3

[ND_Coach]

I thought Cavalier was more of a Wing T team

I do not know anyone running the full house T.  Adams Edinburg Edmore ran a series of stack "I" and Watford ran some power "I"

Hillsboro ran a lot of power I.  I remember Cavalier ran a lot of the full house T

Does anyone in the state run the split back Veer?  I know Steele did, but they went to more of a run and shoot type option the past two years.


Also, are there any 3-5-3 Teams in the state?

[GRIDIRON GURU]

Jamestown high runs the split back veer, they have lacked that special QB to really make a splash with it.

 

Valley City High ran a 3-5-3 and went 0-9.