garrison offense.

[bigpoppakdog]

Wing T formation. I saw that when they talk about the beginning of football in black and white footage. Can't believe its actually run. Anybody have thoughts on them running this offense?

[d_fense]

There is nothing wrong with this offense. I got to see the double wing earlier this year. I really liked that. It comes down to... If you have players that fit into an offense, you can run anything.

[bigpoppakdog]

[GRIDIRON GURU]

I thought that Garrison was running over balance single wing.

Fargo south runs Wing T... Two time defending AAA State Champs
Oak Grove ran Wing T for many years and last years .... AA State Champs
Valley City is running the Wing T this year.... 5-0

Delaware and Grambling ran the Wing T for decades and won several National championships with it.

[bigpoppakdog]

[The Schwab]

garrison runs basically student body left student body right. I don't know about the other teams. Do they utilize other running backs out of this formation?

I messed some people up on College football for SEGA using student body left and right....

[ndsportsnut]

Garrison has'nt won more than two or three games in a season in some time. I would go back to the basics and run an "I" formation or something conventional than all that fancy smancy stuff. Looks to me like it does'nt work. They get throttled every week. The coaching staff should be watching tapes of what Velva, Harvey and the like do with their schemes, not trying to run something you dreamed up in your sleep.

[GRIDIRON GURU]

I talked with Garrison's coach the summer of 07 at a camp when he told me he was going to run the over balance single wing, which is a throw back offense, there have been more games won with the single wing offense than any other in history. Nobody runs the Single wing in ND high school football so it is a contrarian approach, it is different, and teams have to prepare differently to play Garrison.

I have not seen Garrison play, but if they are in fact running single wing, the single wing does not use a quarter back, it is a direct snap back to the halfback or fullback the offense uses tight line splits and attacks the defense with supperior numbers.

Miami just beat the New England Patriots running the throw back single wing offense, and beat them running the same plays most 5th and 6th graders can run, it's not fancy.

Tim Tebow just won the Heisman trophy last year running a version of the single wing at Florida.

The "I" formation is extreemly easy to defend if you do not have talent. So saying that Garrison should be studying the two best teams in "A" ball in Velva and Harvey and run their offense is a joke unless they had the same type of talent.

The coach at Garrison is giving his team the best chance at competing in every game trying to chew up the clock and keep the ball away from their opponent. If Garrison lined up in an "I" or spread formation they would be three and out 80 percent of the time and their opponents would be putting up 60 points in short order.

I am not trying to slam the athletes at Garrison, I am just saying that they would not be winning any more games running a different offense, and they would be losing their tough games by a much larger margin.

If Garrison had the type of athletes that Velva and Harvey have and ran the over balance single wing offense people would be saying....holy crap have you seen that offense Garrison is running? it's awesome! Nobody can stop it.

It would be the new fad offense.

[bigpoppakdog]

[d_fense]

nice response! I did notice the examples you used discussed using quarterbacks. Its hard for me to believe that you can't train a kid to take a snap and hand the ball off or pitch the ball like a standard pro set offense. You don't have to be a great athlete to get the ball to the running backs. These other teams that you indicated use a form of this have drastic variations compared to what garrison does. But if you don't have the athletes to do it you have to stay basic. I've watched garrison and I believe they have athletes to run a pro set or I formation for sure.

I don't think there is any offense that is easier to prepair for than one that runs out of the pro set. Almost any D can be played vs. a pro set. When you (Garrison) start to put that many offensive players in a tight area that are only a few D's that will work. And, it is likely the one you have been working on all season to prepare for the other 7 teams on your schedule will not be one that will work.

[GRIDIRON GURU]

Quite frankly I am bored with pro set offenses, I like teams running three yards and a cloud of dust offense. Or a misdirection offense, or an option offense. That is entertaining to me

However, it's not a high school coaches job to entertain us, it's his job to give his players the best chance to win with the type of speed and talent he has.

[bigpoppakdog]

[eastwood99]

What's Garrison's Coachs name?

[eastwood99]

The only reason we do it because we don't have anyone to throw the ball lol

[GRIDIRON GURU]

Here is some good old throw back single wing footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrXeWir06_U

[GRIDIRON GURU]

Here is some footage of a 4-4 defense defending an "I" formation offense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfY5-CDAzWI

[d_fense]

nice response! I did notice the examples you used discussed using quarterbacks. Its hard for me to believe that you can't train a kid to take a snap and hand the ball off or pitch the ball like a standard pro set offense. You don't have to be a great athlete to get the ball to the running backs. These other teams that you indicated use a form of this have drastic variations compared to what garrison does. But if you don't have the athletes to do it you have to stay basic. I've watched garrison and I believe they have athletes to run a pro set or I formation for sure.

I don't think there is any offense that is easier to prepair for than one that runs out of the pro set. Almost any D can be played vs. a pro set. When you (Garrison) start to put that many offensive players in a tight area that are only a few D's that will work. And, it is likely the one you have been working on all season to prepare for the other 7 teams on your schedule will not be one that will work.

I highly disagree. Pro set doesn't allow defenses to key their eyes on just one back. Makes things much more difficult when you can use cross bucks, traps, pitches either way to either back, traps with the wings, reverses, middle screens, power to either side. Garrison's offense to me, is by far the simplest ever run and the easiest to defend. Case in point what are they avg. for points the last two years? under 6? Also agree its the coaches job to give his team the best chance at winning, but is this offense the best chance they have? Maybe so, and if it is, then so be it. But for two years averaging close to 6 or 7 points per game one has to wonder. I've seen their players, seems like there is a player that throws the ball as well as any other qb's from the area.

You don't really ever key on a back. You key on the line. That is who tells you where the ball is going and what is being run. We have to spend a lot of time getting young players to stop looking at the running backs and start looking at the guards before they can do a blasted thing on defense. The plays you mentioned can be run out of basically any formation, not just the pro set.

I don't give a hoot what they have averaged for the last two years. They don't score because they don't have enough quality players. Thowing the ball has its place, but running the ball wins games. An incomplete pass is the second best thing that can happen when a team thows the ball. I agree with the gentleman who said give me three yards and a cloud of dust.

[bigpoppakdog]

[d_fense]

well it looks like they're continuing to develop non quality players with an offense for non quality players.

You don't know football if think that offense is designed for non quality players.

[GRIDIRON GURU]

You don't know football if think that offense is designed for non quality players.

I agree d-fense, but to each his own, obviously mr. Kdog does not like the offense and most likely has some invested interest in the team, OR he may know football, but sounds like an armchair quarterback to me.

In any case I have learned that it's darn near impossible to make somebody like an offense.

Just like nobody could EVER convince me to like the spread offense at the high school level.

[bigpoppakdog]

[GRIDIRON GURU]

the offense has nothing to do with my team(?). I just wanted thoughts on it and from what i've gathered its chosen because garrison does not have quality athletes to run a regular(what other word could I use?) offense. But if they continue to do this aren't they encouraging non quality athletes?

Here is my theory on this exact scenario, If a team is short on numbers, athletes and speed an offense like the single wing, double wing, stack I, wishbone etc. is much better suited for those type of teams.

Now, take a team loaded with talent and run an offense that can be successful with lesser athletes and run it with superior athletes and it will KILL. Why? becsues it's different, it takes advantage of a defenses weakness, it gives you supperior numbers at the point of attack, it keeps your opponents offense off the field, it limits turn overs, it can be run on a windy, cold, rainy, snowy, day. The offense is weather proof too. Espesially here in North Dakota when the weather can really affect your play calling and the outcome of a game.

Let me give you a recent example of the other way it can go.

A couple years ago in AA football, Valley City, who is one of the biggest schools in that class, had some nice athletes with some speed and size, but they tried to run the spread offense and got MURDURED EVERY WEEK going 0-9 on the season. I bet they could have set some kind of national record for the number of punts in one season.

They run any other offense and they are most likely in the playoffs.

Is Garrison limiting or holding back an athlete by running this offense? No way, if they had a special kid he would be excelling with this offense.

[ndsportsnut]

Your points are well taken, but if all those things are true, (keeps opposing offense's off the field, wind, rain ect.... ect.... why do the troopers keep losing.... BAD! Velva had 40 points against them before the troop knew what happened. The aggie defense must have scored all the points. I know you cant compare High School to the NFL, but you look at the past super bowl winners and all them snap the ball to a QB and run a conventional offense. The Patriots, Giants, the Niners of the 80's and the Cowboys of the 90's all ran a QB, HB, FB. Some people said the "run and shoot" was suppose to be the way of the future. I dont recall any of these teams winning a ring.

Saying Garrison doesnt have any quality athletes is not true. There are a lot of pretty talented kids there that work hard. You have to somewhat gifted to run any kind of offense. To me, this offense is pretty predictabale, in a conventional offense, you can keep the defense off balance. Run some cross bucks, power sweeps, miss direction, maybe some play action, like I said before, the teams is N.D. that have success, do it the old fashion way with hard nose football. If you can win with three yards and a cloud of dust, so what.