North Dakota Preps

Why can't the East beat the West in state? Is it because coaching is better? or is it the fact that the east is full of soft city-boys...what do u think...When was the last time the East won?

Jayhawk 13 wrote:Why can't the East beat the West in state? Is it because coaching is better? or is it the fact that the east is full of soft city-boys...what do u think...When was the last time the East won?

I don't think it's because of soft city boys, IMO they are hockey minded not football.

JayHawk 13 - Hello -This is a football thread. Are you serious? East has won quite a few football titles past number of years.....ie: Fargo South, West Fargo.

this is a single a football thread so fargo south and west fargo winning state isn't really in the topic. i'm not sure but i don't think anyone but velva and harvey have won state in the last six years

how many cities are there in Class A football?? i don't think there is a team from the east that has more than 2,500 people in their town! Are you that stupid?

bus wrote:how many cities are there in Class A football?? i don't think there is a team from the east that has more than 2,500 people in their town! Are you that stupid?

'Velva has 1.021 residents and Harvey has 1,985. I hope the east teams aren't over 2,500 and can't compete with Velva or Harvery. Nice crop of kids going through the school systems.

Since the inception of the four class system Velva, Harvey,and Stanley are the only teams to win a tile in class a. I think that part of the reason is that kids in those towns live for football! When is the last time that you've seen any of those schools in the spring classic? Secondly I think that they are very well coached. The kids buy into a system and they do what they're told to get the job done! Their coaches are good at picking apart another teams weaknness and exploiting it! They are also very good at making adjustments during a game. That being said, it also takes good athletes you can be the best coach in the world but if your athletes don't get it done then it just doesn't matter. Velva, Harvey and Stanley have all had great players that know how to get it done.

Worth mentioning that, while Cavalier was in their hayday, they were eligible for 1A ball, and opted up. I have a feeling that several of those titles would have belonged to Cavalier had they been playing 1A.

Coaching played a role in last year's 1A game. I still can't understand why Lisbon didn't punt. Not that it bothers me any, but to throw away a title like that, when you know that Harvey has Kordell Wolff over on the sidelines....

With the exception of 1998, all Class A champs have come out of Region 3. Harvey being the only non region 3 team to win a class A title in 98 over Stanley. Since than it has been Stanley 99. Velva 00,01, Stanley 02, Velva 03,04,05,06 and Harvey, out of Region 3, in 07.

During those years the big clash has been to win the Region 3 title. When Stanley was in Region 3 there were some classic Velva / Stanley games. Always less than a touchdown separated them. Now in Region 3 it is the Velva / Harvey game that many see as the state title matchup. I think those teams keep each other strong in Region 3. In order to compete they used each other as a measuring stick and are forced year in and year out to play and prepare for the best teams in the state.

Will that western domination continue? In small towns athletes cycle. I think though, for at least another few years, the class A champ will come from the west and from Region 3.

steve34 wrote:Worth mentioning that, while Cavalier was in their hayday, they were eligible for 1A ball, and opted up. I have a feeling that several of those titles would have belonged to Cavalier had they been playing 1A.

Coaching played a role in last year's 1A game. I still can't understand why Lisbon didn't punt. Not that it bothers me any, but to throw away a title like that, when you know that Harvey has Kordell Wolff over on the sidelines....

You make a good point about Cavalier, in their hayday there are probably a lot of AAA teams that would have had a tough time with them! The year that Velva beat them for the title all they had left was Matt Anderson and in that game he found out that it takes a whole team to win not just one stud. I didn't think Velva really had a very good team that year but they played to the moment and pulled it out. But I doubt that Velva would have been able to beat Cavalier the three previous years.

secondwind wrote:JayHawk 13 - Hello -This is a football thread. Are you serious? East has won quite a few football titles past number of years.....ie: Fargo South, West Fargo.

Ya. and this would be the 'A' division thread there smart guy...nontheless its been pure domination from West...just curious about some opinions.

A-Fanatic wrote:

steve34 wrote:Worth mentioning that, while Cavalier was in their hayday, they were eligible for 1A ball, and opted up. I have a feeling that several of those titles would have belonged to Cavalier had they been playing 1A.

Coaching played a role in last year's 1A game. I still can't understand why Lisbon didn't punt. Not that it bothers me any, but to throw away a title like that, when you know that Harvey has Kordell Wolff over on the sidelines....

You make a good point about Cavalier, in their hayday there are probably a lot of AAA teams that would have had a tough time with them! The year that Velva beat them for the title all they had left was Matt Anderson and in that game he found out that it takes a whole team to win not just one stud. I didn't think Velva really had a very good team that year but they played to the moment and pulled it out. But I doubt that Velva would have been able to beat Cavalier the three previous years.

In that title game Matt Anderson was playing with torn cartilage in his knee and Robert Vistad had a torn ACL.

You can't really say city boys In class A football because it's really class b 11 man it's all class B towns so they can not be hockey minded other than Park River.

However, I will say that for some reason, especially in the past, kids from the west seemed to be more hard nosed than kids from the east. That is just simply my general observation.

Last year I would not have given Lisbon a chance in heck to compete with Harvey, but they did, and they would have won the game if they had gotten that all important first down.

What if Lisbon punted and it was blocked, or there was a bad snap, or the punter shanked the punt, or Harvey ran it back?

Then every one would be saying how dumb Lisbon was to punt and they should have gone for it and won the game.

I will say this about the teams that compete in the state title games. If you notice, with the exception of probably Dickinson Trinity most of the schools have good wrestling programs. Wrestlers in general are more agressive and more likely to be a little more aggressive on the field. I know for a fact that Larry Sandy in Velva has said that he wishes he had more more wrestlers on his teams just because they are more aggressive. Now, that being said, I know that a lot of the players that are the "standouts" are probably good basketball players, but with agreessive hard hitting teammates it makes it easier to make big plays. With schools like Velva, Harvey, Stanley, Linton, LaMoure, Lisbon, Cavalier, Larimore, (all schools that have made the finals in recent years) they all have decent wrestling programs which I submit ties very well and compliments football programs.

"You can't really say city boys In class A football because it's really class b 11 man it's all class B towns so they can not be hockey minded other than Park River.

However, I will say that for some reason, especially in the past, kids from the west seemed to be more hard nosed than kids from the east. That is just simply my general observation.

Last year I would not have given Lisbon a chance in heck to compete with Harvey, but they did, and they would have won the game if they had gotten that all important first down.

What if Lisbon punted and it was blocked, or there was a bad snap, or the punter shanked the punt, or Harvey ran it back?

Then every one would be saying how dumb Lisbon was to punt and they should have gone for it and won the game."

I love how some people will defend every coach and every referee, no matter what. Are you really gonna tell me that the reaction to a blocked punt or a bad snap would have been the same? Seriously? It's fourth down and 1, you're on the 45 (either 45), and you're leading by 4 in the state title game with less than two minutes left. You punt. End of story. If it get's blocked, Harvey makes a great play. If you get a bad snap, the kids didn't execute. If you go for it and don't get it, you put the kids in a bad situation.

Guru, please be more objective. The cloak of perfection was pulled from coaches and refs a long time ago. Yes, they are human, and they make mistakes. But this one was as obvious as trying to force a square peg in a round hole. It was pride. It had nothing to do with protecting from something bad happening. It had everything to do with wanting to be the coach that made the call that won the title. That call won a title, alright.

steve34 wrote:"Guru, please be more objective. The cloak of perfection was pulled from coaches and refs a long time ago. Yes, they are human, and they make mistakes. But this one was as obvious as trying to force a square peg in a round hole. It was pride. It had nothing to do with protecting from something bad happening. It had everything to do with wanting to be the coach that made the call that won the title. That call won a title, alright.

I am being objective, I am the only one defending Lisbons decision to go for it. I would have done the same thing.

GRIDIRON GURU wrote:

steve34 wrote:"Guru, please be more objective. The cloak of perfection was pulled from coaches and refs a long time ago. Yes, they are human, and they make mistakes. But this one was as obvious as trying to force a square peg in a round hole. It was pride. It had nothing to do with protecting from something bad happening. It had everything to do with wanting to be the coach that made the call that won the title. That call won a title, alright.

I am being objective, I am the only one defending Lisbons decision to go for it. I would have done the same thing.

I am not a Lisbon fan. In the title game they had the first down. It wasn't even very close. The line judge on the east sideline moved to his right with the runners forward progress. Then for some reason as the pile was being pushed back he started running into the field of play moving to his left as the pile kept being shoved back. I never saw what it looked like on TV, but two friend I was with (none of us rooting for Lisbon) were on the line of scrimmage about 15 rows up. Horrible spot.

Going for it was a good call, even with the line judge blowing it, your defense has to make a stop.

I had a similar spot in the stands, and from my view, he got nothing, not even close to a first down. I talked with several people in press row, and all said the same thing: No first down. There was very little argument from the Lisbon sideline about the spot.

Going for it was not a good call, and even if you want to argue the matter, then why a sneak? Why not let Brandon Schell bruise another three or four lineman for a yard to win the game? You're telling me the best call, based on how the game was played, was to sneak a yard?

I was at the game, And I have the tape of the game which I have watched in super slow-mo while zoomed in. He did not get it. He was probly bout 6 inches from the 1st. Watch the replay and look where the marker is. Pay attention to where forward progress stops.

Velva, harvey, stanley have a tradition for football. I don't believe any of them had any basketball teams that could compare to their football teams. You breed and live football you will get rewarded for it. Linton seems the only team mentioned that also has had some success playing bb. So why do these teams continue to dominate? I think its pretty simple. Desire dedication and determination to football.

First of all, Lisbon did the right thing by going for it at the end. They already had ran like 230+ yards on the best D in the state, why couldn't they get one more? The only thing I would have changed is giving the ball to Schell. He had been running over Harvey all game, why couldn't he do it then too?

Secondly, I don't think the west is as tough as you think. Harvey had just about all blowouts against the teams they played. Lisbon's games were a lot closer. I think there were a few of teams on the east that could have gave Harvey a run for their money in the state championship.

If Lisbon was the only team that year to run all over Harvey's defense, then maybe the west has maybe ONE "dominate" team whereas the east had a lot more equal teams.

Lisbon had a good game. Harvey had a good game. You can't expect a championship to be blowout really. I am glad the game was that close it made it interesting. But I still do not think that other teams in the east could have done the same thing to Harvey. The best teams played the best game. And it rocked. I wish all championships were the same way.

From an outside perspective, I believe the west's success in prior years has more to do with demographics than anything. In the east side of the state there is a much more concentrated population with the towns of fargo and grand forks providing jobs for the people of the surrounding towns. Because of the constant change of job opportunities in the larger towns, population in the surrounding area changes much more frequently than areas in the west. What this means is there is no chance for east towns to build programs compared to the family trees that are present throughout the west. You see the same surnames over and over again in towns like harvey and velva. Think about the generations of kids that go through those schools...the point being that families in the west stay in the west, giving the schools a chance to build traditions like they have, no doubt leading to a constant "breeding" of success. In the east, you just don't see generations of families stay in the area.