2023 Class A Football Poll

[ChickenNuggets]

Basically only one more test for the top 4 for the rest of the regular season and that is Kindred and Lisbon this weekend. The Viking should come out on top but it will be a close game. Kindred wants to run the ball and Lisbon sticks 8 in the box to stop the run.
So lets say Kindred wins this one.... how will the play offs break down with 1. Velva 2. Kindred 3. DT 4 Langdon

Does that mean that it will be Velva vs. Langdon and Kindred Vs DT??

It's based off of the QRF: https://www.northdakota-scores.net/boys ... 2024/17830

But they haven't begun to use the seeding for Class A...this is the only thing this site does

11B doesn't use QRF for playoffs at all. A coaches vote (Coaches of the 4 region champions) determines the 1-4 seeds. Playoffs prior to the semi-finals are separated East and West.

If playoffs started today-
Round 1-
Region 2 #4 (Cavalier) @ Region 1 #1 (Kindred)
Region 1 #3 (Lisbon) @ Region 2 #2 (Carrington)
Winners Play each other at highest seed

Region 2 #3 (Harvey/WC) @ Region 1 #2 (Central Cass)
Region 1 #4 (Oakes) @ Region 1 #1 (Langdon)
Winners play at highest seed

Region 3 #4 (Stanley) @ Region 4 #1 (Trinity)
Region 4 #3 (Killdeer) @ Region 3 #2 (Des Lacs/Burlington)
Winners play at highest seed

Region 4 #4 (Beulah or Bowman County) @ Region 3 #1 (Velva)
Region 3 #3 (Bishop Ryan) @ Region 4 #2 (Shiloh Christian)
Winners play at highest seed.

After the first round and quarterfinals, the semi-finals would be determined by the seed of the Region Champs (#4 @ #1 seed and #3 @ #2 seed)

[Class B]

Basically only one more test for the top 4 for the rest of the regular season and that is Kindred and Lisbon this weekend. The Viking should come out on top but it will be a close game. Kindred wants to run the ball and Lisbon sticks 8 in the box to stop the run.
So lets say Kindred wins this one.... how will the play offs break down with 1. Velva 2. Kindred 3. DT 4 Langdon

Does that mean that it will be Velva vs. Langdon and Kindred Vs DT??

It's based off of the QRF: https://www.northdakota-scores.net/boys ... 2024/17830

But they haven't begun to use the seeding for Class A...this is the only thing this site does

11B doesn't use QRF for playoffs at all. A coaches vote (Coaches of the 4 region champions) determines the 1-4 seeds. Playoffs prior to the semi-finals are separated East and West.

If playoffs started today-
Round 1-
Region 2 #4 (Cavalier) @ Region 1 #1 (Kindred)
Region 1 #3 (Lisbon) @ Region 2 #2 (Carrington)
Winners Play each other at highest seed

Region 2 #3 (Harvey/WC) @ Region 1 #2 (Central Cass)
Region 1 #4 (Oakes) @ Region 1 #1 (Langdon)
Winners play at highest seed

Region 3 #4 (Stanley) @ Region 4 #1 (Trinity)
Region 4 #3 (Killdeer) @ Region 3 #2 (Des Lacs/Burlington)
Winners play at highest seed

Region 4 #4 (Beulah or Bowman County) @ Region 3 #1 (Velva)
Region 3 #3 (Bishop Ryan) @ Region 4 #2 (Shiloh Christian)
Winners play at highest seed.

After the first round and quarterfinals, the semi-finals would be determined by the seed of the Region Champs (#4 @ #1 seed and #3 @ #2 seed)

Big if true for Velva. Nothing on their schedule will help the QRF except if Beulah continues to win... if I understand process right.

[Flip]

11B doesn't use QRF for playoffs at all.

Coaches vote will rank the four region champs and seed them #1-4
If like seeded teams meet in the playoffs, QRF will determine the home team

https://ndhsaa.com/regulations/football

[WalkingStick]

Who knows what the QRF even is right now...that site has NOTHING to even suggest what the QRFs even are (more for AAA and AA). For a state that likes to be cheap, I'm shocked they didn't come up with their own ranking system instead of paying for the use of the QRF.

[ChickenNuggets]

This is the 10-2-23 QRF ranking

Rank Team / Record QRF
1 Dickinson Trinity (6-0) 82.4
2 Kindred (6-0) 76.8
3 Langdon Area/Munich (7-0) 71.4
4 Shiloh Christian (6-1) 68.5
5 Velva (7-0) 64.7
6 Central Cass (5-1) 60.4
7 Carrington (5-2) 57.2
8 Lisbon (4-2) 54.8
9 Killdeer/Halliday (5-2) 53.0
10 Bowman County (4-2) 50.7
11 Harvey-Wells County (5-2) 50.3
12 Oakes (4-2) 47.6
13 Bishop Ryan (4-3) 42.2
14 Ellendale/Edgeley/Kulm (5-2) 42.1
15 Beulah (4-3) 42.0
16 Cavalier (4-3) 40.4
17 Des Lacs-Burlington (3-3) 38.9
18 Thompson (4-3) 34.8
19 Stanley (3-4) 34.2
20 Bottineau (2-5) 32.2
21 Nedrose (2-4) 30.1
22 Ray/Powers Lake (3-4) 29.1
23 Heart River (2-4) 27.4
24 Southern McLean (3-4) 27.3
25 Grafton (2-5) 27.2
26 Hillsboro/Central Valley (2-5) 24.7
27 May-Port-C-G (2-4) 23.4
28 South Prairie (1-6) 19.2
29 Rugby (1-6) 16.4
30 Hazen (0-7) 10.4
31 Northern Cass (0-7) 9.7
32 Kenmare/Bowbells/BC (0-7) 9.3
33 Park River/Fordville-Lankin (0-6) 9.2

[maddog1971]

WOW I don't understand the QFR but Nope... I dont' like it at all... DT as number one? Really? How is that even possible?

[WalkingStick]

WOW I don't understand the QFR but Nope... I dont' like it at all... DT as number one? Really? How is that even possible?

It's also missing a score for the DT/Bowman game on Saturday so it's not accurate...DT may still be #1 with that fix but it'll be closer and will balance out as DT plays weaker teams upcoming whereas Kindred has tougher teams (wins-wise)

QRF matters very little in A & 9-man though BUT:
It's about who you've played and their (win total multiplied by an arbitrary quantitative number) divided by GP

Kindred (6-0)
CC - 5
Cavalier - 4
HCV - 2
NC - 0
Oakes - 4
Lisbon - 4
TOTAL WINS: 19
-------Upcoming Games-------
MPCG - 2
EEK - 5

Dickinson Trinity (7-0)
Des Lacs-Burlington - 5
Bishop Ryan - 4
Hazen - 0
Beulah - 4
Killdeer - 5
Shiloh - 6
Bowman - 4
TOTAL WINS: 28
-------Upcoming Games-------
HR - 0
SM - 3

[fanofeverything]

This is the 10-2-23 QRF ranking

Rank Team / Record QRF
1 Dickinson Trinity (6-0) 82.4
2 Kindred (6-0) 76.8
3 Langdon Area/Munich (7-0) 71.4
4 Shiloh Christian (6-1) 68.5
5 Velva (7-0) 64.7
6 Central Cass (5-1) 60.4
7 Carrington (5-2) 57.2
8 Lisbon (4-2) 54.8
9 Killdeer/Halliday (5-2) 53.0
10 Bowman County (4-2) 50.7
11 Harvey-Wells County (5-2) 50.3
12 Oakes (4-2) 47.6
13 Bishop Ryan (4-3) 42.2
14 Ellendale/Edgeley/Kulm (5-2) 42.1
15 Beulah (4-3) 42.0
16 Cavalier (4-3) 40.4
17 Des Lacs-Burlington (3-3) 38.9
18 Thompson (4-3) 34.8
19 Stanley (3-4) 34.2
20 Bottineau (2-5) 32.2
21 Nedrose (2-4) 30.1
22 Ray/Powers Lake (3-4) 29.1
23 Heart River (2-4) 27.4
24 Southern McLean (3-4) 27.3
25 Grafton (2-5) 27.2
26 Hillsboro/Central Valley (2-5) 24.7
27 May-Port-C-G (2-4) 23.4
28 South Prairie (1-6) 19.2
29 Rugby (1-6) 16.4
30 Hazen (0-7) 10.4
31 Northern Cass (0-7) 9.7
32 Kenmare/Bowbells/BC (0-7) 9.3
33 Park River/Fordville-Lankin (0-6) 9.2

This isn’t even correct. It has DLB @17 @3-3. They are 5-2 and they beat Minot Ryan who is sitting 13 at 4-3.

[WalkingStick]

That's cause he has DLB losing to SPM

DLB will be hurt a bit with the Minot North game as they won't gain 'points' there.

[WalkingStick]

Again, the QRF will only matter when like-seeded teams meet in the postseason.

[Sorenson23]

Eighth Poll
Wednesday October 4th
1. Velva-Drake-Anamoose-Garrison (16)
7-0; 90
2. Kindred (3) 6-0; 74
3. Dickinson Trinity 7-0; 54
4. Langdon-Edmore-Munich 7-0; 46
5. Central Cass 5-1; 17
Others Receiving Votes: Shiloh Christian (6-1).

[bk1990]

Had the chance to watch Velva/Drake/Anamoose/Garrison recently. They are a solid team with a lot of good athletes. My question is, how does the success factor work? If they would win state again this year, that would be two years in a row, both years undefeated, I think they went undefeated last year. Similar to what happened to St. Mary's a few years back, due to success factor they were move up and are now playing in AAA with an enrollment of about 345, according to the Hoopster. Using all the school Velva coops with for football, their enrollment is at about 315. This is more than KIndred, Central Cass, Grafton, Thompson. all larger schools. Also, is there no limits to who can co-op with who? The players from Garrison have to drive 50 miles to practice in Velva. Other schools with football such as Washburn, South Prairie, Underwood are all closer. People talk about the privates recruiting, how about selective co-ops? When you see Velva with 50 kids on the sideline and 40 in junior high football, how is a Kenmare or Powers Lake supposed to compete? Is the answer to find schools 50 miles away just to co-op? Back to my original question, the Velva co-op with 315 students, why can't the be bumped up to play schools with 600-900 students if St. Mary's with 345 is bumped up to play schools with 1200-1600 students? Does this only happen when it is a private school?

[packers21]

Had the chance to watch Velva/Drake/Anamoose/Garrison recently. They are a solid team with a lot of good athletes. My question is, how does the success factor work? If they would win state again this year, that would be two years in a row, both years undefeated, I think they went undefeated last year. Similar to what happened to St. Mary's a few years back, due to success factor they were move up and are now playing in AAA with an enrollment of about 345, according to the Hoopster. Using all the school Velva coops with for football, their enrollment is at about 315. This is more than KIndred, Central Cass, Grafton, Thompson. all larger schools. Also, is there no limits to who can co-op with who? The players from Garrison have to drive 50 miles to practice in Velva. Other schools with football such as Washburn, South Prairie, Underwood are all closer. People talk about the privates recruiting, how about selective co-ops? When you see Velva with 50 kids on the sideline and 40 in junior high football, how is a Kenmare or Powers Lake supposed to compete? Is the answer to find schools 50 miles away just to co-op? Back to my original question, the Velva co-op with 315 students, why can't the be bumped up to play schools with 600-900 students if St. Mary's with 345 is bumped up to play schools with 1200-1600 students? Does this only happen when it is a private school?

Call the Garrison Supt. He spoke at the BB NDHSAA 3 class meeting in VC a year ago. He stated "You know who plays for Garrison, kids from Garrison" just another example of ppl talking from both sides of something.

Also the success factor is over a 3 year run, and make sure you are only using boys enrollment and checking free and reduced #s.

St. Marys got screwed on the success factor bc they made it retroactive to make sure they had to move up, the success factor is an absolute joke.

[ndlionsfan]

Had the chance to watch Velva/Drake/Anamoose/Garrison recently. They are a solid team with a lot of good athletes. My question is, how does the success factor work? If they would win state again this year, that would be two years in a row, both years undefeated, I think they went undefeated last year. Similar to what happened to St. Mary's a few years back, due to success factor they were move up and are now playing in AAA with an enrollment of about 345, according to the Hoopster. Using all the school Velva coops with for football, their enrollment is at about 315. This is more than KIndred, Central Cass, Grafton, Thompson. all larger schools. Also, is there no limits to who can co-op with who? The players from Garrison have to drive 50 miles to practice in Velva. Other schools with football such as Washburn, South Prairie, Underwood are all closer. People talk about the privates recruiting, how about selective co-ops? When you see Velva with 50 kids on the sideline and 40 in junior high football, how is a Kenmare or Powers Lake supposed to compete? Is the answer to find schools 50 miles away just to co-op? Back to my original question, the Velva co-op with 315 students, why can't the be bumped up to play schools with 600-900 students if St. Mary's with 345 is bumped up to play schools with 1200-1600 students? Does this only happen when it is a private school?

All this information you are asking about is on the NDHSAA website. For the 2024 football plan, V/G/DA actual male enrollment is 147 and when you do the free/reduced factor it drops to 127. Kindred 149, Central Cass 179, Grafton 128, Thompson 98. Yes Washburn, SP, and Central McLean are all closer, but maybe their schools did not want to have Garrison join their coop? I'm sure Central McLean didn't because it would move them to 11man. Not sure why Washburn or South Prairie wouldn't. I believe Velva took them on as an emergency coop so their kids had a place to play and the same goes with DA as both those programs forfeited entire seasons at the last minute. As far as playoff points go, that is on the website as well. 2019 - 2, 2020 - 2, 2021 - 1, 2022 - 4. If they win state again this season, 2019 will fall off but it would be replaced with 4 for a total of 11. They would still not be required to move up.

[Sorenson23]

I don't think Washburn ever would co-op with Garrison, considering they are with Wilton-Wing for FB, and Baseball. Washburn is about roughly 35 miles from Garrison and Wilton is further yet. Yeah! They have to go 50 miles one way. But say Garrison did co-op with Washburn and Wilton. The miles Garrison drives every day to Velva, would be the same for Wilton to Garrison. Now I don't the details about this next part. But, before Underwood co-oped with TLM in basketball and volleyball, Garrison was open to co-oping with them in those two sports. But my opinion is, there are many reasons: 1. And CM was already in a co-op with Turtle Lake, Mercer, McClusky, and Riverdale. 2. Jumping to 11 Man wasn't the only reason. 3. Garrison would have the co-op rights, and everything would have been in Garrison, wouldn't make sense to use three locations for home games. 4. Three fourths of this co-op was already combined in every sport, except for basketball and volleyball. My question is, why did Garrison drop their co-op with Max?

[Class B]

Had the chance to watch Velva/Drake/Anamoose/Garrison recently. They are a solid team with a lot of good athletes. My question is, how does the success factor work? If they would win state again this year, that would be two years in a row, both years undefeated, I think they went undefeated last year. Similar to what happened to St. Mary's a few years back, due to success factor they were move up and are now playing in AAA with an enrollment of about 345, according to the Hoopster. Using all the school Velva coops with for football, their enrollment is at about 315. This is more than KIndred, Central Cass, Grafton, Thompson. all larger schools. Also, is there no limits to who can co-op with who? The players from Garrison have to drive 50 miles to practice in Velva. Other schools with football such as Washburn, South Prairie, Underwood are all closer. People talk about the privates recruiting, how about selective co-ops? When you see Velva with 50 kids on the sideline and 40 in junior high football, how is a Kenmare or Powers Lake supposed to compete? Is the answer to find schools 50 miles away just to co-op? Back to my original question, the Velva co-op with 315 students, why can't the be bumped up to play schools with 600-900 students if St. Mary's with 345 is bumped up to play schools with 1200-1600 students? Does this only happen when it is a private school?

The Velva-DAG coop was created as a result of 2 emergency coops. There was nothing "selective" about it. For Garrison, a bridge was burned with Max (who co-ops with South Prairie) and Central McLean (Turtle Lake and Underwood) wanted nothing to do with moving up out of 9-man. Garrison had nowhere else to go. They would not have been able to field a 9-man team, let alone an 11-man team. Even with numbers up, if you'd ask Garrison parents if they were to field their own team, the answer would be "no". It's certainly not ideal for Garrison because they've stuck some money into their field and continue to do so. New grandstand, sprinklers, etc. It's not for a lack of trying.

Velva and Garrison have also had a 20 year relationship for wrestling.

D/A couldn't even field a 6-man team. Enough said. They probably also saw the writing on the wall in that 6-man is not sustainable the more they have to drive to Drayton to play a regular season game. D/A has also co-op with Velva for baseball and track for over 25 years.

The Velva-DAG coop still has a smaller enrollment than Kindred, CC and Grafton. DLB is about a 10ish students behind. How different is this coop than, say, Langdon Area-E/M or even some of the county coops? Powers Lake is 40+ miles from Ray. Glenburn is 40 miles to Westhope (9man coop).

[Class B]

All that said, I'm sure if the NDHSAA demanded Coach Weidler and his kids to go play AA next year, their answer would be to "bring it on". That same program won all those State Titles in the 2000s as a stand-alone program with 9man enrollment. The coops are important because they bring depth, but I'd say the bigger factor for their success is the culture.

[maddog1971]

I was going through Surrey this weekend and it is basically part of Minot now. 10 Minutes outside... Why are people not claiming and yelling it is not fair since they are basically connected to Minot?
And Coop's are basically how small town schools can put together schools and teams. Kindred is basically just a big Coop of small towns with the school being located in Kindred.
I believe more of these small towns need to build a big school centrally located like Northern Cass did. I don't know why so many small towns keep funding dead schools. 4 kids per class? Not worth the money to keep that school open.

[Class B]

I was going through Surrey this weekend and it is basically part of Minot now. 10 Minutes outside... Why are people not claiming and yelling it is not fair since they are basically connected to Minot?
And Coop's are basically how small town schools can put together schools and teams. Kindred is basically just a big Coop of small towns with the school being located in Kindred.
I believe more of these small towns need to build a big school centrally located like Northern Cass did. I don't know why so many small towns keep funding dead schools. 4 kids per class? Not worth the money to keep that school open.

The short answer... Winning (though Surrey has had some success in football of late). Notice how evil the private schools are in basketball because they win. In football, BR and OR coop to form some sort of a "Super Private", but they aren't a Top 5 team and that narrative sort of flies under the radar. Come playoff time, you're going to hear a lot of Kindred and CC just being "an extension of the Fargo school district".

Winning magnifies everything, including scrutiny.

[Your daddy]

You don't have to wait until playoff time, I'll say it now. West west Fargo and south south fargo should not be playing in class b in any sports period!

[bison football73]

I was going through Surrey this weekend and it is basically part of Minot now. 10 Minutes outside... Why are people not claiming and yelling it is not fair since they are basically connected to Minot?
And Coop's are basically how small town schools can put together schools and teams. Kindred is basically just a big Coop of small towns with the school being located in Kindred.
I believe more of these small towns need to build a big school centrally located like Northern Cass did. I don't know why so many small towns keep funding dead schools. 4 kids per class? Not worth the money to keep that school open.

The short answer... Winning (though Surrey has had some success in football of late). Notice how evil the private schools are in basketball because they win. In football, BR and OR coop to form some sort of a "Super Private", but they aren't a Top 5 team and that narrative sort of flies under the radar. Come playoff time, you're going to hear a lot of Kindred and CC just being "an extension of the Fargo school district".

Winning magnifies everything, including scrutiny.

This argument about Surrey is being made in circles around Minot albeit not as loudly as the CC and Kindred arguments.

[bingobangobongo]

I was going through Surrey this weekend and it is basically part of Minot now. 10 Minutes outside... Why are people not claiming and yelling it is not fair since they are basically connected to Minot?
And Coop's are basically how small town schools can put together schools and teams. Kindred is basically just a big Coop of small towns with the school being located in Kindred.
I believe more of these small towns need to build a big school centrally located like Northern Cass did. I don't know why so many small towns keep funding dead schools. 4 kids per class? Not worth the money to keep that school open.

The short answer... Winning (though Surrey has had some success in football of late). Notice how evil the private schools are in basketball because they win. In football, BR and OR coop to form some sort of a "Super Private", but they aren't a Top 5 team and that narrative sort of flies under the radar. Come playoff time, you're going to hear a lot of Kindred and CC just being "an extension of the Fargo school district".

Winning magnifies everything, including scrutiny.

This argument about Surrey is being made in circles around Minot albeit not as loudly as the CC and Kindred arguments.

Surrey, South Prairie (the school has a Minot address), Nedrose (which is in Minot), DL/B (with Burlington having no real geographical separation with Minot) should all be getting run through the muck just like Kindred and CC. But like Class B said, they haven't been quite as successful in their sports as CC and Kindred over the last few years so they get a pass for now.

Being in Imperial Cass doesn't help out CC and Kindred -- that alone is enough to make some people in other parts of the states not like them very much.

[The Schwab]

I was going through Surrey this weekend and it is basically part of Minot now. 10 Minutes outside... Why are people not claiming and yelling it is not fair since they are basically connected to Minot?
And Coop's are basically how small town schools can put together schools and teams. Kindred is basically just a big Coop of small towns with the school being located in Kindred.
I believe more of these small towns need to build a big school centrally located like Northern Cass did. I don't know why so many small towns keep funding dead schools. 4 kids per class? Not worth the money to keep that school open.

The short answer... Winning (though Surrey has had some success in football of late). Notice how evil the private schools are in basketball because they win. In football, BR and OR coop to form some sort of a "Super Private", but they aren't a Top 5 team and that narrative sort of flies under the radar. Come playoff time, you're going to hear a lot of Kindred and CC just being "an extension of the Fargo school district".

Winning magnifies everything, including scrutiny.

This argument about Surrey is being made in circles around Minot albeit not as loudly as the CC and Kindred arguments.

Surrey, South Prairie (the school has a Minot address), Nedrose (which is in Minot), DL/B (with Burlington having no real geographical separation with Minot) should all be getting run through the muck just like Kindred and CC. But like Class B said, they haven't been quite as successful in their sports as CC and Kindred over the last few years so they get a pass for now.

Being in Imperial Cass doesn't help out CC and Kindred -- that alone is enough to make some people in other parts of the states not like them very much.

Enrollments in 9-12 in schools mentioned above (going off of last years 8-11 grades as numbers aren't out for this year)

Central Cass- 305
Kindred- 265
DLB- 210
Nedrose- 170
Surrey- 147
South Prairie- 146

Now these are just ball park numbers using last years information. I would assume strongly that these schools didn't get less students.

Kindred and CC have been successful, that's why they catch a lot of hate. They are also quite a bit larger than the other schools mentioned.

[UncleRico]

I am not closely involved, but I've been told that there are a LOT of houses that will be going up in Casselton in the next year or so. I'm not sure how quickly that will impact the high school enrollment, but it seems likely that CC will likely continue to separate from the pack on the enrollment side.

[bingobangobongo]

In football, BR and OR coop to form some sort of a "Super Private", but they aren't a Top 5 team and that narrative sort of flies under the radar.

Nobody ever complains about Oak Grove football either. Shocking.

So, winning history + private or Class B within 25 miles of a metro = higher "scrutiny" (which is such a nice PC way of saying dislike).