Playoff teams

The teams in Class A

Playoff teams

Postby RattlerWebWonk » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:59 pm

Is there such a disparity in class A that we can already safely predict the 12 playoff teams after just one week of region play?

Here's how I see it...
Region 1 - Carrington, Northern Cass and Oakes
Region 2 - PR-F-L, Larimore and Rugby
Region 3 - Velva/Sawyer, W/N/G and Bishop Ryan
Region 4 - Hazen, Killdeer and Southern McLean

Any teams that I didn't name that might crack their region's top 3?
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby ndfootball4444 » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:26 pm

Reg. 1) Carrington, Northern Cass, Oakes (Carrington easily)
Reg. 2) PR-F-L, Larimore, Rugby.
Reg. 3) W/N/G, Velva, Minot Ryan (w/n/g is going to just get better and play very physical, no depth tho)
Reg. 4) Killdeer, Hazen, Southern Mclean (Killdeer will control Hazens line and ground pound it for 1 spot in a good game for sure by 8pts.) Heartriver may get the 3 spot.
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:40 pm

ndfootball4444 wrote:Reg. 1) Carrington, Northern Cass, Oakes (Carrington easily)
Reg. 2) PR-F-L, Larimore, Rugby.
Reg. 3) W/N/G, Velva, Minot Ryan (w/n/g is going to just get better and play very physical, no depth tho)
Reg. 4) Killdeer, Hazen, Southern Mclean (Killdeer will control Hazens line and ground pound it for 1 spot in a good game for sure by 8pts.) Heartriver may get the 3 spot.


S. McLean holds tiebreak on Heart River...I don't see Heart River upsetting Killdeer or Hazen...so I think S. McLean is safe
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby HammerTime » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:09 am

This was just the first week of region play. The season just barely hit the halfway mark. That kind of statement just doesn't make sense to say yet. Also, my take on what I've seen so far: I could see Harvey taking that No. 3 spot in the playoffs. It's not quite a lock for Rugby. Just gonna throw that out there. Take it or leave it.
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby RattlerWebWonk » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:22 pm

HammerTime wrote:That kind of statement just doesn't make sense to say yet. Also, my take on what I've seen so far: I could see Harvey taking that No. 3 spot in the playoffs. It's not quite a lock for Rugby. Just gonna throw that out there. Take it or leave it.


The fact that you could only see error with one of my 12 predicted playoff teams tells me that it's NOT that ridiculous. The question that led off the post was...
RattlerWebWonk wrote:Is there such a disparity in class A that we can already safely predict the 12 playoff teams after just one week of region play?


My point is simply this: where/when are we going to see some upsets? Personally, I think Oakes, Rugby and Bishop Ryan are the only 3 vulnerable picks of my originally-predicted 12 playoff teams. But I'm not sure if there are teams in their regions that can step up and knock them off.

Outside of HammerTime's less-than-confident pick of Harvey-Wells County knocking out Rugby, anyone else willing to make a "bold prediction"?
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby madseason » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:13 pm

RattlerWebWonk wrote:
HammerTime wrote:That kind of statement just doesn't make sense to say yet. Also, my take on what I've seen so far: I could see Harvey taking that No. 3 spot in the playoffs. It's not quite a lock for Rugby. Just gonna throw that out there. Take it or leave it.


The fact that you could only see error with one of my 12 predicted playoff teams tells me that it's NOT that ridiculous. The question that led off the post was...
RattlerWebWonk wrote:Is there such a disparity in class A that we can already safely predict the 12 playoff teams after just one week of region play?


My point is simply this: where/when are we going to see some upsets? Personally, I think Oakes, Rugby and Bishop Ryan are the only 3 vulnerable picks of my originally-predicted 12 playoff teams. But I'm not sure if there are teams in their regions that can step up and knock them off.

Outside of HammerTime's less-than-confident pick of Harvey-Wells County knocking out Rugby, anyone else willing to make a "bold prediction"?
Hammer may be right, I think Harvey could beat Rugby. 25% chance IMO. Your spot on I think with the rest. Oakes may not be so safe either.
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby madseason » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:27 pm

Bold prediction! East wins again for second year straight. 2 out of 22 East on comeback run?
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby RattlerWebWonk » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:56 pm

madseason wrote:Bold prediction! East wins again for second year straight. 2 out of 22 East on comeback run?

I'm surprised you dared to put that in writing! :D Better hope you didn't jinx the east!! :lol:
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby madseason » Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:48 pm

RattlerWebWonk wrote:
madseason wrote:Bold prediction! East wins again for second year straight. 2 out of 22 East on comeback run?

I'm surprised you dared to put that in writing! :D Better hope you didn't jinx the east!! :lol:

Yea that statement might come back to haunt me. Everyone thought the Killdeer Hazen game was the championship last year. :roll:
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby B-oldtimer » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:06 pm

The teams in class A 11 man plan has not made much since to me since I saw it last fall. The top teams in class A at least here in the east could have easily competed with the double A teams this year they may not have won state but they would have been competitive and could have made the playoffs. The bottom teams in class A would have had hard time competing at 9 man level against power teams at that level. I look at Oak Groove, Milnor/North Sargent, EEK, Langdon, Lakota-edmore/DP. and also could include Harvey/Wells county they all could have easily played at 9 man level and would have been like everyone else struggling to make a playoff spot. When they went to 24 teams in A it just such small number of schools and means that these schools have to travel long distances to play each other and it comes down to basically 3 or 4 schools that will compete in the playoffs. My guess is here in the east it will be Park River playing against Carrington to play in the state. I think reason we still have class A is that coaches and administrators just have hard time adjusting to the fact that either they are school large enough to support compete at 11 man at higher level or they should be down with large number schools that already have gone 9 man. I hear this from coaches all time that are 11 man they don't want to play at 9 man level even if they know that level would fit them with kids numbers and would bring about rivalries that are close and have had in past. They don't think its football but it is just different style and from fan level exciting game to watch.
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby HammerTime » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:54 am

B-oldtimer wrote:The teams in class A 11 man plan has not made much since to me since I saw it last fall. The top teams in class A at least here in the east could have easily competed with the double A teams this year they may not have won state but they would have been competitive and could have made the playoffs. The bottom teams in class A would have had hard time competing at 9 man level against power teams at that level. I look at Oak Groove, Milnor/North Sargent, EEK, Langdon, Lakota-edmore/DP. and also could include Harvey/Wells county they all could have easily played at 9 man level and would have been like everyone else struggling to make a playoff spot. When they went to 24 teams in A it just such small number of schools and means that these schools have to travel long distances to play each other and it comes down to basically 3 or 4 schools that will compete in the playoffs. My guess is here in the east it will be Park River playing against Carrington to play in the state. I think reason we still have class A is that coaches and administrators just have hard time adjusting to the fact that either they are school large enough to support compete at 11 man at higher level or they should be down with large number schools that already have gone 9 man. I hear this from coaches all time that are 11 man they don't want to play at 9 man level even if they know that level would fit them with kids numbers and would bring about rivalries that are close and have had in past. They don't think its football but it is just different style and from fan level exciting game to watch.

You hit it square on the head about class A. Most coaches and players at any 11 man level wouldn't even consider playing 9-man football. And then you think about schools like Rugby or Bottineau that struggle with participation problems and they couldn't even to compete in Class AA. I last counted and Rugby only has 26 varsity players after the Lakota game. And Bottineau was playing 8th graders last year because they were so low on numbers. For schools with enrollments of 200+ kids without even co-oping, that is pathetic, but it's why Class A exists.
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby NodakQ2 » Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:21 pm

B-oldtimer wrote:The teams in class A 11 man plan has not made much since to me since I saw it last fall. The top teams in class A at least here in the east could have easily competed with the double A teams this year they may not have won state but they would have been competitive and could have made the playoffs. The bottom teams in class A would have had hard time competing at 9 man level against power teams at that level. I look at Oak Groove, Milnor/North Sargent, EEK, Langdon, Lakota-edmore/DP. and also could include Harvey/Wells county they all could have easily played at 9 man level and would have been like everyone else struggling to make a playoff spot. When they went to 24 teams in A it just such small number of schools and means that these schools have to travel long distances to play each other and it comes down to basically 3 or 4 schools that will compete in the playoffs. My guess is here in the east it will be Park River playing against Carrington to play in the state. I think reason we still have class A is that coaches and administrators just have hard time adjusting to the fact that either they are school large enough to support compete at 11 man at higher level or they should be down with large number schools that already have gone 9 man. I hear this from coaches all time that are 11 man they don't want to play at 9 man level even if they know that level would fit them with kids numbers and would bring about rivalries that are close and have had in past. They don't think its football but it is just different style and from fan level exciting game to watch.


I'm not sure I get the arguement here. ND uses male enrollment to "class" their teams. There is a DEFINATE division in class between A and AA. With the exception of Kindred and Hillsboro (which IMO are "tweeners"), the largest "A" school is 98 enrollees and the smallest "AA" is 121. Harvey is the largest "A" enrollment school at 98. Carrington is 11th at 86. So, in your example the "good programs" should be AA and everyone else 9 man in Class A? Pretty hard to classify teams by "talent".

Now, the division between "A" and "9-man" gets a little "fuzzier" with a least 5 teams "opting" up from 9 man to A, but some of the schools you speak of above would be GIANTS in 9 man. (Harvey and EEk are two of the largest schools in "A")

I don't think we can class teams by who is going to compete where. There is always going to be teams on the bubble no matter how you class them, but for the most part enrollment shows a pretty good snapshot of where teams should be classed. IMO if we ever go back to three classes, you go 200 and up (100 and up if you're PRIVATE) AAA, 80 and lower 9-man and anyone else who wants to play 11 man can "opt up". I've never loved the 4 class system, but don't think there is anything wrong with it either.
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby B-oldtimer » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:03 am

Some schools with largest enrollments in class A are coops and I believe that enrollment based on coops is not like schools like Carrington, Northern Cass, Larimore, and maybe include Park River when you have one just one school the participation is just greater. The coops help with numbers but a lot of kids just won't put up with travel and time to compete especially if its not their favorite sport. So the pool of kids is available is much smaller than the numbers say by enrollments. Also you have politics of coops and this also leads to few more kids not playing. I look at EEK they do not have large participation if anything it looks like they have less some of smaller schools so numbers of students available may not as great as you think. Look at some of 9 man schools they have more kids out for football than a lot A teams have for football. Like I say Class A schools the ones that want to play 11 man would play class AA and other would be at 9 man level where you already have schools with similar numbers playing already. If you are really concerned about small schools ND should look at 6 man football like montanna where we would have less mega coops and small schools competing at that level and some of the class A coops might dissolve to compete at that level if coaches and admin would get over how football should be played.
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby NodakQ2 » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:21 am

The problem is...How else do you do it? You can't pick and choose based on program strength, which appears to me as what you are suggesting. It MIGHT be more fair to go back to a 3 class system but I'm not so sure. Co-Ops are an issue, but I'm not sure how else you deal with them. I totally get what you are saying on the participation.

The way classing is currently done is about as good as it is going to get.
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby wan2bqb » Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:11 pm

Here's the real problem enrollment and participation are not any where near the same thing. Schools can go up and down like Linton, W-NG, Cavalier or decide to stay in one division like Velva, Oakes, and M-NS. I know there or more but here are a few examples. Of the four schools I named that are 11 man three are at nine man enrollment levels and have been for years. One of them dropped down only to come right back up. Oakes has more 7th graders out for football than it does 9-12. M-NS has only 15 kids out in 7-8 grade combined. The problem is for every stud class that comes through there are one or two down years waiting for the next one. And one or two injuries to a key player can decimate some of these smaller schools. 9 man is a different game, you can rely on speed and misdirection on the years you don't have the horses to power the ball. 11man is more of a numbers game If you don't have the kids then your stuck with a hole in your game. Nature of the beast. There is no one answer that fits every situation. I think they are doing their best to fix a problem that there isn't a good fix to.
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby Bigbrew22 » Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:55 am

Just curious how many people would actually like to see 6 man football?
With final scores pushing around 80-20 frequently it's all offense might rare defensive battles. I like 11man. I really like 9man. But not ever interested in watching less than 9man football.
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby B-oldtimer » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:50 am

The answer for this its not weather you want to watch the football but is it fit for the schools and will it create more participation and if kids like it and have fun playing it. If this happens local towns and parents will be there supporting it and people that may not like it will follow it because its their team and kids playing it. This is high school sports in ND and especially for the small schools because they are followed by their towns no matter what the sport or the activity.
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby Bigbrew22 » Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:12 am

Of course the town will support any team but I still hope it never happens. We co-op 6 towns into 3 schools and 1 football team and I doubt the communities here would support a change to 6 man
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby Hinsa » Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:57 pm

If it meant they could support "their own team" they would go 6-man in a heartbeat. Cutting down the overgrown grass where there was a football field, painting stripes on the field, putting a fresh coat of paint on the old concession stand, replacing burned out lights, walking to the game or just driving a few blocks across town - these experiences are priceless and the men who used to play on that field would support playing on it again, even if it is a completely different brand of football.
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:11 pm

Hinsa wrote:If it meant they could support "their own team" they would go 6-man in a heartbeat. Cutting down the overgrown grass where there was a football field, painting stripes on the field, putting a fresh coat of paint on the old concession stand, replacing burned out lights, walking to the game or just driving a few blocks across town - these experiences are priceless and the men who used to play on that field would support playing on it again, even if it is a completely different brand of football.


Agree, and I love that Alexander has taken this approach this year along with Ray and Tioga splitting to field their own teams as well. Problem is, if a 6man division was developed I really don't think you'd see a lot of coops dissolve to field their own teams. Not enough to make it a viable option in my opinion. Look at all the coops we still have in bball and that would require about the same number of players, but football participation rates are less than basketball.
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby Hinsa » Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:40 pm

Great point about the basketball co-ops comparison. I still wonder if a 6-man division would be enough to spur some co-ops to dissolve their basketball co-ops as well. I can think of a few in our region alone that might be tempted.
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby madseason » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:45 pm

I have never even heard of 6 man football. I hate coops too and if enough schools wanted to say FU to the co-op they are in and field a 6 man team SO BE IT!! but like someone else said it would take a dissolution of many co-ops for it to happen?
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby Bigbrew22 » Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:11 am

Maybe some of theses smaller schools will have to be more active in try to get more boys to go out for football.
When I was in school we had at least 20 boys who could've been great football players that never even tried football. They would all cite reasons like "don't like the coach" or "I'm not going out to sit on the bench". Sure they would have sat on the bench a few years but would have started as seniors. If u need a 9 man roster filled in a small town send the coach out to have one on one talks and get on a personal level with these fringe kids and hopefully you can field a team and not co-op. But if you don't have 9 boys that can play ball in your town then a co-op is really your only option. Example above is exactly that. not all situations are the same we had a lot of boys that did play it was just sad to see so many make poor excuses for not playing.
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby Hinsa » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:05 pm

Bigbrew, great point about coaches getting on a personal level with kids. Coaches need to be pied pipers these days and recruit kids to play, not just for the sake of the program but for the sake of the kids' development as students and as people. Every fringe kid that you can keep involved is another kid that has a much better chance to be motivated enough to improve himself/herself and become a better person after graduation.

As for not liking the coach or not liking sitting on the bench, these are two of the easiest excuses for kids to use so they don't have to be honest with themselves and fess up as to the real reason they don't play. Most of the time the real reason is they are too lazy to do what it takes to participate. And they are setting a dangerous precedent for themselves going forward because it will make it easier for them to quit college, quit a job, whatever it might be. They will once again say they don't like their boss or they don't like the professor or they don't like the school.

Once in a great while a kid will make a well-thought out decision to quit a sport. They want to devote their time to other academic pursuits, or other school organizations, or they are needed to help at home, etc. More power to the young person who can weigh the pros and cons and make a logical decision.
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Re: Playoff teams

Postby ndlionsfan » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:22 pm

Hinsa wrote:Great point about the basketball co-ops comparison. I still wonder if a 6-man division would be enough to spur some co-ops to dissolve their basketball co-ops as well. I can think of a few in our region alone that might be tempted.


The only coops I could really see dissolving would be ones where the current enrollment bumps them up to a division in which they don't really fit or can compete long term. Ex: H-CV, MV-E. Central Dakota, EEK, LE-DP
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