All time best school tourny

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All time best school tourny

Postby ndplayer35 » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:32 pm

If a school could put togethar there best 5 players and put them in a tourny which school would win and who would be on the team.
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby The Schwab » Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:48 pm

MPCG and you can take your pick of the 5
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby Hinsa » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:12 pm

I'll put these 5 up against anybody: Hillsboro -

Kyle Meyer - 6'5" center - strong, great defender, excellent shooter
Chipper Hanson - 6'3" forward - scored from anywhere against much taller defenders
Doug Waters - 6'3" forward - great leaper, outstanding offensive moves in the paint
Bill McLean - 6'0" guard - shot over 50% from the field as a guard from looooong range in an era when 40% shooting was considered good
Kyle Morehart - best overall point guard I can remember - cat quick, incredible passer, shot teardrops in the lane before anyone knew what they were
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby The Schwab » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:39 pm

Hinsa wrote:I'll put these 5 up against anybody: Hillsboro -

Kyle Meyer - 6'5" center - strong, great defender, excellent shooter
Chipper Hanson - 6'3" forward - scored from anywhere against much taller defenders
Doug Waters - 6'3" forward - great leaper, outstanding offensive moves in the paint
Bill McLean - 6'0" guard - shot over 50% from the field as a guard from looooong range in an era when 40% shooting was considered good
Kyle Morehart - best overall point guard I can remember - cat quick, incredible passer, shot teardrops in the lane before anyone knew what they were


that's a good lineup.....BUT

MPCG

Craig Nelson- Top 2 point guards in ND history
Ben Jacobson- Played at UND....stud
Travis Kraft- Played as South Carolina, got hosed for mr. bball
Chuck Klabo- Lets see some one on your team out muscle him :)
Kyle Nelson- Pretty dang good and 4 plus inches on your tallest guy.

and that's only using about an 8 year stretch....
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby Hinsa » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:01 pm

I hear ya Schwabby, but there's this thing called defense that Burros know how to play....

Morehart edges Nelson. Craig is fantastic, but Morehart is better athletically
McLean and Jacobson are a push - both dominated their eras
Travis Kraft - wonderfully gifted but I saw 5'8" Scott Olsen take him completely out of his game with in your face defense; I'd give Kraft a slight edge over Hanson, although Hanson's moves might have Kraft in quick foul trouble
Waters and Nelson - different kinds of players; Nelson was power and Waters was finesse and moves - I'd give it a wash
Meyer and Klabo - another push; Meyer NEVER got pushed around and Klabo didn't have the moves to score on someone who held their ground on him; Meyer was 10x the shooter Klabo was

And I'll throw in one more intangible - coaching. Dave is great, but father-in-law Ed is a legend.

Good rebounding positioning, good defense, and an edge in coaching negates the Patriot height/bulk advantage. I still take Hillsboro.
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby The Schwab » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:14 pm

well...i will disagree still....Craig Nelson is by FAR the smartest basketball player i have ever seen, he wasn't the scorer that morehart was, but if MPCG ever needed a basket Craig would come up with it...I'll give that matchup a wash...and i think i'm being generous

If McLean matched up on Jacobson- Ben would take him down in the post and ABUSE him, 5 inches and a soft touch = bad news for McLean

Travis Kraft is the most skilled player I've seen, I've heard my dad tell stories about Chipper Hanson...he was good...but Kraft would work him all game long. And I'm assuming that your refering to "the game" when hillsboro beat MPCG one week too soon.

I'll be nice and give ya the Klabo/Meyer matchup- Klabo was a rebounder and a defensive low post presence

Waters and Nelson- Again you can't teach height and nelson would have his way inside

Coaching I can't argue against Eddie....but i don't think even he would have a game plan to stop this basketball machine. (and ya never know, Craig might show his Grandpa a thing or too :) )

On Defense MPCG could put a 1-2-1-1 press on them and give the Burros nightmares

I will enjoy debating this one back and forth
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:37 pm

The Schwab wrote:
Hinsa wrote:I'll put these 5 up against anybody: Hillsboro -

Kyle Meyer - 6'5" center - strong, great defender, excellent shooter
Chipper Hanson - 6'3" forward - scored from anywhere against much taller defenders
Doug Waters - 6'3" forward - great leaper, outstanding offensive moves in the paint
Bill McLean - 6'0" guard - shot over 50% from the field as a guard from looooong range in an era when 40% shooting was considered good
Kyle Morehart - best overall point guard I can remember - cat quick, incredible passer, shot teardrops in the lane before anyone knew what they were


that's a good lineup.....BUT

MPCG

Craig Nelson- Top 2 point guards in ND history
Ben Jacobson- Played at UND....stud
Travis Kraft- Played as South Carolina, got hosed for mr. bball
Chuck Klabo- Lets see some one on your team out muscle him :)
Kyle Nelson- Pretty dang good and 4 plus inches on your tallest guy.

and that's only using about an 8 year stretch....


I wasn't too impressed with Chuck Klabo. Yeah he averaged 14 pts and about the same amount of boards his senior year, but he was 6'6" and weighed about 250. He was basically a fball player that was good at bball just because of his size and intimidation. I was 6'2" and about 175 when I played him and I outmuscled him on almost every possession. He had 2 pt and 1 board for the game. It's all about positioning and leverage!
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby Hinsa » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:38 pm

You're right Schwabby, you can't teach height, but you can box it out and play good position defense on it.

By the way, McLean was 6'0", Ben was 6'2". Not a 5" height advantage.

In no way do I want to diminish what Craig can do, I'm just saying that Morehart's quickness would give Craig fits.

Kraft-Hanson - you never saw Chipper fake, did you. He had guys jumping all over the place. Kraft would have 3 fouls in the first quarter. Can't score from the bench.

I'll give you Nelson scoring over Waters. But Doug was more than a low post player. He could step outside and score as well.

And a 1-2-1-1 press? Wouldn't bother the Burros at all. Who do you think popularized that press? And Morehart would dribble right through it. Seriously, If you saw Kyle play, you saw that he could not be cornered by a press.

I too, enjoy the debate. I will say this, I'd like to see anyone else come up with the same kind of storied history between neighboring schools. Basketball flows in the Goose River. It's just that Portland and Mayville take out all the tall minerals before the water gets to Hillsboro! :wink:
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:59 pm

I think Leeds would have a very strong team....overall they would be right up there with Hillsboro and MPCG. Minnewaukan, Wolford, and Munich could also field some excellent teams with their top 5 players if anyone would help me out with the names.

Jason Haagenson - top 5 career scorer in ND history over 2300 pts, 2 time all state, Mr Bball finalist
Kent Flickinger - scored over 1500 pts, excellent smooth shooter, all state
Brett Moser - scored over 1500 pts, Mr BBall finalist, 2 time all state
Kory Tollefson - another all state player with over 1000 pts in career
Erik Engstrom - 6'8" center with good quickness and moves, all state player, played 4 years at Jamestown

Derreck Hochstetler and Jeremy Wolf were Wolford players that played with Leeds in the early 90's and were both excellent players that could make this list, but I will keep it as Leeds players only.
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:04 pm

I have to agree that the MP - Hillsboro rivalry is probably the best in the state, but before they cooped a few years ago, Minnewaukan and Leeds had a rivalry almost as good. What are some other historic bball rivalries in the state?
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby The Schwab » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:07 pm

Hinsa wrote:You're right Schwabby, you can't teach height, but you can box it out and play good position defense on it.

By the way, McLean was 6'0", Ben was 6'2". Not a 5" height advantage.

In no way do I want to diminish what Craig can do, I'm just saying that Morehart's quickness would give Craig fits.

Kraft-Hanson - you never saw Chipper fake, did you. He had guys jumping all over the place. Kraft would have 3 fouls in the first quarter. Can't score from the bench.

I'll give you Nelson scoring over Waters. But Doug was more than a low post player. He could step outside and score as well.

And a 1-2-1-1 press? Wouldn't bother the Burros at all. Who do you think popularized that press? And Morehart would dribble right through it. Seriously, If you saw Kyle play, you saw that he could not be cornered by a press.

I too, enjoy the debate. I will say this, I'd like to see anyone else come up with the same kind of storied history between neighboring schools. Basketball flows in the Goose River. It's just that Portland and Mayville take out all the tall minerals before the water gets to Hillsboro! :wink:


and mayville could have quite the deep bench as well with players like Rygg, Dan Swift, Matt Klabo, Matt Swift, Luke Lorenz and many others...
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby The Schwab » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:10 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:I think Leeds would have a very strong team....overall they would be right up there with Hillsboro and MPCG. Minnewaukan, Wolford, and Munich could also field some excellent teams with their top 5 players if anyone would help me out with the names.

Jason Haagenson - top 5 career scorer in ND history over 2300 pts, 2 time all state, Mr Bball finalist
Kent Flickinger - scored over 1500 pts, excellent smooth shooter, all state
Brett Moser - scored over 1500 pts, Mr BBall finalist, 2 time all state
Kory Tollefson - another all state player with over 1000 pts in career
Erik Engstrom - 6'8" center with good quickness and moves, all state player, played 4 years at Jamestown

Derreck Hochstetler and Jeremy Wolf were Wolford players that played with Leeds in the early 90's and were both excellent players that could make this list, but I will keep it as Leeds players only.


Well i can throw out a couple of names for minnewauken from the days of listening to my dad talk about his former teammates and others he watch.

Kevin Ankenbauer (spelling) schools all time scoring leader
Jerry Cook- All stater
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby Flying Wallenda » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:47 pm

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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby Flying Wallenda » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:49 pm

The Schwab wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:I think Leeds would have a very strong team....overall they would be right up there with Hillsboro and MPCG. Minnewaukan, Wolford, and Munich could also field some excellent teams with their top 5 players if anyone would help me out with the names.

Jason Haagenson - top 5 career scorer in ND history over 2300 pts, 2 time all state, Mr Bball finalist
Kent Flickinger - scored over 1500 pts, excellent smooth shooter, all state
Brett Moser - scored over 1500 pts, Mr BBall finalist, 2 time all state
Kory Tollefson - another all state player with over 1000 pts in career
Erik Engstrom - 6'8" center with good quickness and moves, all state player, played 4 years at Jamestown

Derreck Hochstetler and Jeremy Wolf were Wolford players that played with Leeds in the early 90's and were both excellent players that could make this list, but I will keep it as Leeds players only.


Well i can throw out a couple of names for minnewauken from the days of listening to my dad talk about his former teammates and others he watch.

Kevin Ankenbauer (spelling) schools all time scoring leader
Jerry Cook- All stater


Jerry Sears, Marty Tollefson, and Callie Helgeson are three from Minnewauken that were tough.
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby Flying Wallenda » Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:10 am

ndlionsfan wrote:I think Leeds would have a very strong team....overall they would be right up there with Hillsboro and MPCG. Minnewaukan, Wolford, and Munich could also field some excellent teams with their top 5 players if anyone would help me out with the names.

Jason Haagenson - top 5 career scorer in ND history over 2300 pts, 2 time all state, Mr Bball finalist
Kent Flickinger - scored over 1500 pts, excellent smooth shooter, all state
Brett Moser - scored over 1500 pts, Mr BBall finalist, 2 time all state
Kory Tollefson - another all state player with over 1000 pts in career
Erik Engstrom - 6'8" center with good quickness and moves, all state player, played 4 years at Jamestown

Derreck Hochstetler and Jeremy Wolf were Wolford players that played with Leeds in the early 90's and were both excellent players that could make this list, but I will keep it as Leeds players only.


Haagenson was as competitive as they come, I'd kick Tollefson off this team and put Corey Bisbee, Eric Haagenson, or even Reid Haagenson on(not considering positions, but Tolleson is only about 6'1)...Bisbee was overlooked because of Jason Haagenson, but people will tell you that in 91 (Bisbee's senior year, J. Haagenson's Junior year) that Bisbee probably had the better year...no knock to Haagenson though, very tough, absolutely hated to lose.
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby itsallabouteddie » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:56 pm

The Schwab wrote:well...i will disagree still....Craig Nelson is by FAR the smartest basketball player i have ever seen, he wasn't the scorer that morehart was, but if MPCG ever needed a basket Craig would come up with it...I'll give that matchup a wash...and i think i'm being generous

If McLean matched up on Jacobson- Ben would take him down in the post and ABUSE him, 5 inches and a soft touch = bad news for McLean

Travis Kraft is the most skilled player I've seen, I've heard my dad tell stories about Chipper Hanson...he was good...but Kraft would work him all game long. And I'm assuming that your refering to "the game" when hillsboro beat MPCG one week too soon.

I'll be nice and give ya the Klabo/Meyer matchup- Klabo was a rebounder and a defensive low post presence

Waters and Nelson- Again you can't teach height and nelson would have his way inside

Coaching I can't argue against Eddie....but i don't think even he would have a game plan to stop this basketball machine. (and ya never know, Craig might show his Grandpa a thing or too :) )

On Defense MPCG could put a 1-2-1-1 press on them and give the Burros nightmares

I will enjoy debating this one back and forth


i think morehart would give nelson fits. craig was quick but morehart is vastly quicker even still today

i think jacobson would have a slight edge of mclean

kraft would absolutely get owned by chipper. Chipper has no weakness the only thing kraft has on him is
height, which wouldn't bother Chipper. Hinsa is right about Olsen dominating him. I don't know what you are talking about the winning a week too soon. we beat MPCG in the district and regional title game. you must be talking about '96 which if not for illness probably could have happened again

"Bongo" would have the upper hand on klabo, on any of them Chuck, Darren, Leah you name it!!

i don't care how tall kyle nelson is, he's not very physical and waters would punish him inside. ask old mayville people

like was stated earlier who do you think taught Dave how to run the 1-2-1-1 or as its properly called the T-Bird Press? What do you think press Coach Nelson ran when he helped guide Hillsboro over Epping in '77? That press issue is a push.

the fact that Coach Beyer led the '96 team over MPCG, in a game hillsboro dominated for most of it, if you don't believe me i still have the tape of it, would tell me the "superburros would win over the superpatriots.
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby The Schwab » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:41 am

itsallabouteddie wrote:
The Schwab wrote:well...i will disagree still....Craig Nelson is by FAR the smartest basketball player i have ever seen, he wasn't the scorer that morehart was, but if MPCG ever needed a basket Craig would come up with it...I'll give that matchup a wash...and i think i'm being generous

If McLean matched up on Jacobson- Ben would take him down in the post and ABUSE him, 5 inches and a soft touch = bad news for McLean

Travis Kraft is the most skilled player I've seen, I've heard my dad tell stories about Chipper Hanson...he was good...but Kraft would work him all game long. And I'm assuming that your refering to "the game" when hillsboro beat MPCG one week too soon.

I'll be nice and give ya the Klabo/Meyer matchup- Klabo was a rebounder and a defensive low post presence

Waters and Nelson- Again you can't teach height and nelson would have his way inside

Coaching I can't argue against Eddie....but i don't think even he would have a game plan to stop this basketball machine. (and ya never know, Craig might show his Grandpa a thing or too :) )

On Defense MPCG could put a 1-2-1-1 press on them and give the Burros nightmares

I will enjoy debating this one back and forth


i think morehart would give nelson fits. craig was quick but morehart is vastly quicker even still today

i think jacobson would have a slight edge of mclean

kraft would absolutely get owned by chipper. Chipper has no weakness the only thing kraft has on him is
height, which wouldn't bother Chipper. Hinsa is right about Olsen dominating him. I don't know what you are talking about the winning a week too soon. we beat MPCG in the district and regional title game. you must be talking about '96 which if not for illness probably could have happened again

"Bongo" would have the upper hand on klabo, on any of them Chuck, Darren, Leah you name it!!

i don't care how tall kyle nelson is, he's not very physical and waters would punish him inside. ask old mayville people

like was stated earlier who do you think taught Dave how to run the 1-2-1-1 or as its properly called the T-Bird Press? What do you think press Coach Nelson ran when he helped guide Hillsboro over Epping in '77? That press issue is a push.

the fact that Coach Beyer led the '96 team over MPCG, in a game hillsboro dominated for most of it, if you don't believe me i still have the tape of it, would tell me the "superburros would win over the superpatriots.


Ok...since your obviously from hillsboro and have bias I will yet again give you reasons why the MPCG all time team would beat hillsboro...pretty soundly.

The match up of Kyle and Craig at the 1.....I know Kyle is one of the best point guards to come out of ND....but Craig is THE BEST point guard to come out of ND....I know Kyle and he is a good friend...and i know he still dominates pickup games....but Craig is the smartest basketball player I've ever seen, and in the state tournament when they needed a basket, they put it in his hands, don't believe me? watch the tape.

I'm not sure on the height of the 2 guards, but i believe Ben has at least 3 inches and a bigger frame than McLean....and if i'm right he would take him down low and go to work, because size DOES matter.

If you honestly believe that Chipper Hanson would dominate Kraft you must have not watched him play EVER, and I know that I never personally saw Chipper play, but I have asked former coaches who coached against him, and who watched travis kraft, and they will tell you it's not even close, Travis Kraft is one of the most talented and best players to ever come out of ND (top 5), he was an absolute machine in Class B basketball....

You can have the offensive side of the 4 spot, but defensively Chuck Klabo was one of the best low post defenders i've seen, they wouldn't need Chuck to score.

And at the 5, if you don't care how tall someone is then you've never watched a well coached team, They would have to dig on Nelson everytime he touched it, otherwise nelson would turn around and shoot over him, and when you dig Nelson would kick it out for the wide open J.

Coaching: The Teacher vs. the student, I would never ever not in a million years say Eddie would ever be outcoached....but Dave is probably the second best coach in ND history (behind Eddie of course)...

Mayville over Hillsboro...and i don't think it's within 15.
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby BB11 » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:26 am

I have to go with Schwab on this one. Although I do agree it would be an interesting match-up - especially with Morehart and Craig. The Nelson -Waters matchup would be interesting too. Kyle obviously had the height, but Waters was a better player. Chipper vs. Travis - another interesting match-up. Chipper had more bulk to him, and could do it all, but Travis could do it all on offense as well - and was a great defender - which most people forget. Travis has the edge - and to be honest - its not that close - I saw both of them play many times - and Travis is the better player by a pretty wide margin. Coaching match-up would be key with this game. I don't think it would be a blow-out either way 0 in fact if they played 10 times I would say MPCG wins 7 out of the 10 with no game being a wider margin then 8 points.
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:22 am

Schwab, I don't know why you're so in love with Travis Kraft but he was not as good as you make him out to be. Yes, he was a great player but we've had this argument before and he was not top 5 all time in ND. The reason he was so good was that he was a 6'7" guard and that creates a huge matchup problem for almost all small class B schools. If you take his talent and athletic ability and shrink him down to 6' then we're not even having this conversation. And the way you talk about Chuck Klabo is an absolute joke. The best low post defender you've ever seen?? Give me a break. When we played against them we had no one over 6'2" and anywhere near 100lbs of Klabo and we dominated him down low. He was big and slow and we had our way with him on offense and on the boards. His offense was back people down to 2ft from the hoop, use his height and turn around and score. Basically like Shaq....no touch or outside game whatsoever. For being a second team allstater and averaging 14 pt and 14 boards you'd think he could get a lot more than 2pts and 1 board against a team made up of basically 5 guards on the court.
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby The Schwab » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:48 am

ndlionsfan wrote:Schwab, I don't know why you're so in love with Travis Kraft but he was not as good as you make him out to be. Yes, he was a great player but we've had this argument before and he was not top 5 all time in ND. The reason he was so good was that he was a 6'7" guard and that creates a huge matchup problem for almost all small class B schools. If you take his talent and athletic ability and shrink him down to 6' then we're not even having this conversation. And the way you talk about Chuck Klabo is an absolute joke. The best low post defender you've ever seen?? Give me a break. When we played against them we had no one over 6'2" and anywhere near 100lbs of Klabo and we dominated him down low. He was big and slow and we had our way with him on offense and on the boards. His offense was back people down to 2ft from the hoop, use his height and turn around and score. Basically like Shaq....no touch or outside game whatsoever. For being a second team allstater and averaging 14 pt and 14 boards you'd think he could get a lot more than 2pts and 1 board against a team made up of basically 5 guards on the court.


See that's the wonderful thing about height, he wasn't 6 foot he was 6' 7", He went D-1 and yes he could have played all four years, but they changed coaches after his freshman year. As for your comments on Klabo, that's one game...14 and 14 is a pretty good line when your the 4th option on the court. I'm not in love with Travis Kraft, I'm just really tired of people saying he's not good...did you watch him....seriously...and back to the subject, MPCG would win.
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:23 pm

MPCG vs Hillsboro isn't the subject.....I'll put up Leeds vs MPCG

PG - Brett Moser vs Craig Nelson....yeah Moser played a 3 his last two years, but he took a team to state playing the point as a sophomore. Craig and him are close to the same size, build, and speed. They were both great shooters and two of the smartest players I've seen play. It's a tossup.

SG - Jason Haagenson vs Ben Jacobson....not even close here. Haagenson would win this matchup. Tough as nails, quick as heck, best player on the court for each of these teams period.

SF - Corey Bisbee or Carl Ahlberg vs Kraft....pretty close matchup, but I'll give the edge to Kraft. Ahlberg and Kraft guarded each other in the 98 state tourney and played basically even on both ends of the court. Bisbee was another tough player, but since Ahlberg was a bit taller (6'2" to 5'10") I'd take him to match up against Kraft.

PF - Jeremy Wolf vs Klabo....not even close here either. Wolf is the best player from ND that nobody has heard of. If Wolford would have kept their stats when he was playing varsity in JH before playing with Leeds, he would have been one of the top 10 scorers in ND history. Wolf's post moves and soft touch would have dominated Klabo and their height and weight is basically a wash. He was a monster of the boards as well and Klabo wouldn't get a single offensive board.

C - Erik Engstrom vs. Kyle Nelsen...another close matchup. Could really go either way, but I'll give a slight edge to Nelsen. Kyle really improved his senior year and I was really impressed with how he played inside. He was very fundamentally sound. Engstrom was a good scorer and defender, but just like Nelsen didn't play against too many people his same size in HS. If you put them head to head, Nelsen gets the nod because of fundamentals.

Overall, I think if these two teams played against each other 10 times, Leeds pulls it off 6-4 with the difference being Jason Haagenson. He would take them on his back when it mattered and will his team to a win.
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:26 pm

The Schwab wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:Schwab, I don't know why you're so in love with Travis Kraft but he was not as good as you make him out to be. Yes, he was a great player but we've had this argument before and he was not top 5 all time in ND. The reason he was so good was that he was a 6'7" guard and that creates a huge matchup problem for almost all small class B schools. If you take his talent and athletic ability and shrink him down to 6' then we're not even having this conversation. And the way you talk about Chuck Klabo is an absolute joke. The best low post defender you've ever seen?? Give me a break. When we played against them we had no one over 6'2" and anywhere near 100lbs of Klabo and we dominated him down low. He was big and slow and we had our way with him on offense and on the boards. His offense was back people down to 2ft from the hoop, use his height and turn around and score. Basically like Shaq....no touch or outside game whatsoever. For being a second team allstater and averaging 14 pt and 14 boards you'd think he could get a lot more than 2pts and 1 board against a team made up of basically 5 guards on the court.


See that's the wonderful thing about height, he wasn't 6 foot he was 6' 7", He went D-1 and yes he could have played all four years, but they changed coaches after his freshman year. As for your comments on Klabo, that's one game...14 and 14 is a pretty good line when your the 4th option on the court. I'm not in love with Travis Kraft, I'm just really tired of people saying he's not good...did you watch him....seriously...and back to the subject, MPCG would win.


Ok, I'll put it this way. Put Kraft in HS in a more populated state where he'd run into other 6'7" guards and he doesn't get the DI looks he got. Put Klabo in the same situation and he's not even going to make the HS team.
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby The Schwab » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:26 pm

sippin on that leeds kool-aid again? lol
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby The Schwab » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:34 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:MPCG vs Hillsboro isn't the subject.....I'll put up Leeds vs MPCG

PG - Brett Moser vs Craig Nelson....yeah Moser played a 3 his last two years, but he took a team to state playing the point as a sophomore. Craig and him are close to the same size, build, and speed. They were both great shooters and two of the smartest players I've seen play. It's a tossup.

SG - Jason Haagenson vs Ben Jacobson....not even close here. Haagenson would win this matchup. Tough as nails, quick as heck, best player on the court for each of these teams period.

SF - Corey Bisbee or Carl Ahlberg vs Kraft....pretty close matchup, but I'll give the edge to Kraft. Ahlberg and Kraft guarded each other in the 98 state tourney and played basically even on both ends of the court. Bisbee was another tough player, but since Ahlberg was a bit taller (6'2" to 5'10") I'd take him to match up against Kraft.

PF - Jeremy Wolf vs Klabo....not even close here either. Wolf is the best player from ND that nobody has heard of. If Wolford would have kept their stats when he was playing varsity in JH before playing with Leeds, he would have been one of the top 10 scorers in ND history. Wolf's post moves and soft touch would have dominated Klabo and their height and weight is basically a wash. He was a monster of the boards as well and Klabo wouldn't get a single offensive board.

C - Erik Engstrom vs. Kyle Nelsen...another close matchup. Could really go either way, but I'll give a slight edge to Nelsen. Kyle really improved his senior year and I was really impressed with how he played inside. He was very fundamentally sound. Engstrom was a good scorer and defender, but just like Nelsen didn't play against too many people his same size in HS. If you put them head to head, Nelsen gets the nod because of fundamentals.

Overall, I think if these two teams played against each other 10 times, Leeds pulls it off 6-4 with the difference being Jason Haagenson. He would take them on his back when it mattered and will his team to a win.


Ok...what makes him the best player on the court? where did he play college? i'm not sure i'm just asking....how tall was he?
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Re: All time best school tourny

Postby Flying Wallenda » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:38 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:MPCG vs Hillsboro isn't the subject.....I'll put up Leeds vs MPCG

PG - Brett Moser vs Craig Nelson....yeah Moser played a 3 his last two years, but he took a team to state playing the point as a sophomore. Craig and him are close to the same size, build, and speed. They were both great shooters and two of the smartest players I've seen play. It's a tossup.

SG - Jason Haagenson vs Ben Jacobson....not even close here. Haagenson would win this matchup. Tough as nails, quick as heck, best player on the court for each of these teams period.

SF - Corey Bisbee or Carl Ahlberg vs Kraft....pretty close matchup, but I'll give the edge to Kraft. Ahlberg and Kraft guarded each other in the 98 state tourney and played basically even on both ends of the court. Bisbee was another tough player, but since Ahlberg was a bit taller (6'2" to 5'10") I'd take him to match up against Kraft.

PF - Jeremy Wolf vs Klabo....not even close here either. Wolf is the best player from ND that nobody has heard of. If Wolford would have kept their stats when he was playing varsity in JH before playing with Leeds, he would have been one of the top 10 scorers in ND history. Wolf's post moves and soft touch would have dominated Klabo and their height and weight is basically a wash. He was a monster of the boards as well and Klabo wouldn't get a single offensive board.

C - Erik Engstrom vs. Kyle Nelsen...another close matchup. Could really go either way, but I'll give a slight edge to Nelsen. Kyle really improved his senior year and I was really impressed with how he played inside. He was very fundamentally sound. Engstrom was a good scorer and defender, but just like Nelsen didn't play against too many people his same size in HS. If you put them head to head, Nelsen gets the nod because of fundamentals.

Overall, I think if these two teams played against each other 10 times, Leeds pulls it off 6-4 with the difference being Jason Haagenson. He would take them on his back when it mattered and will his team to a win.


1)Kent Flickinger was in my opinion the 2nd best player to ever come out of Leeds after Haagenson.
2)Wolf was from Wolford, not Leeds...if you are including Wolford, you need to have Vance Bowersox, who led Wolford to the state runnerup in 1968, probably the best ever to come out of Wolford, or Mark Hochstetler.
3)There was a reason Ben Jacobson was a 3 or 4 year starter at UND, including starting on the team that made the final 8....he was excellent, ya gotta give him more credit than saying he's "not even close" to Haagenson.
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