All time best school tourny

[The Schwab]

MPCG vs Hillsboro isn't the subject.....I'll put up Leeds vs MPCG

PG - Brett Moser vs Craig Nelson....yeah Moser played a 3 his last two years, but he took a team to state playing the point as a sophomore. Craig and him are close to the same size, build, and speed. They were both great shooters and two of the smartest players I've seen play. It's a tossup.

SG - Jason Haagenson vs Ben Jacobson....not even close here. Haagenson would win this matchup. Tough as nails, quick as heck, best player on the court for each of these teams period.

SF - Corey Bisbee or Carl Ahlberg vs Kraft....pretty close matchup, but I'll give the edge to Kraft. Ahlberg and Kraft guarded each other in the 98 state tourney and played basically even on both ends of the court. Bisbee was another tough player, but since Ahlberg was a bit taller (6'2" to 5'10") I'd take him to match up against Kraft.

PF - Jeremy Wolf vs Klabo....not even close here either. Wolf is the best player from ND that nobody has heard of. If Wolford would have kept their stats when he was playing varsity in JH before playing with Leeds, he would have been one of the top 10 scorers in ND history. Wolf's post moves and soft touch would have dominated Klabo and their height and weight is basically a wash. He was a monster of the boards as well and Klabo wouldn't get a single offensive board.

C - Erik Engstrom vs. Kyle Nelsen...another close matchup. Could really go either way, but I'll give a slight edge to Nelsen. Kyle really improved his senior year and I was really impressed with how he played inside. He was very fundamentally sound. Engstrom was a good scorer and defender, but just like Nelsen didn't play against too many people his same size in HS. If you put them head to head, Nelsen gets the nod because of fundamentals.

Overall, I think if these two teams played against each other 10 times, Leeds pulls it off 6-4 with the difference being Jason Haagenson. He would take them on his back when it mattered and will his team to a win.

1)Kent Flickinger was in my opinion the 2nd best player to ever come out of Leeds after Haagenson.
2)Wolf was from Wolford, not Leeds...if you are including Wolford, you need to have Vance Bowersox, who led Wolford to the state runnerup in 1968, probably the best ever to come out of Wolford, or Mark Hochstetler.
3)There was a reason Ben Jacobson was a 3 or 4 year starter at UND, including starting on the team that made the final 8....he was excellent, ya gotta give him more credit than saying he's "not even close" to Haagenson.

well thanks for taking my arguments for jacobson lol...he was only a 2 year starter...but oh well

[Flying Wallenda]

well...i will disagree still....Craig Nelson is by FAR the smartest basketball player i have ever seen, he wasn't the scorer that morehart was, but if MPCG ever needed a basket Craig would come up with it...I'll give that matchup a wash...and i think i'm being generous

If McLean matched up on Jacobson- Ben would take him down in the post and ABUSE him, 5 inches and a soft touch = bad news for McLean

Travis Kraft is the most skilled player I've seen, I've heard my dad tell stories about Chipper Hanson...he was good...but Kraft would work him all game long. And I'm assuming that your refering to "the game" when hillsboro beat MPCG one week too soon.

I'll be nice and give ya the Klabo/Meyer matchup- Klabo was a rebounder and a defensive low post presence

Waters and Nelson- Again you can't teach height and nelson would have his way inside

Coaching I can't argue against Eddie....but i don't think even he would have a game plan to stop this basketball machine. (and ya never know, Craig might show his Grandpa a thing or too )

On Defense MPCG could put a 1-2-1-1 press on them and give the Burros nightmares

I will enjoy debating this one back and forth

i think morehart would give nelson fits. craig was quick but morehart is vastly quicker even still today

i think jacobson would have a slight edge of mclean

kraft would absolutely get owned by chipper. Chipper has no weakness the only thing kraft has on him is
height, which wouldn't bother Chipper. Hinsa is right about Olsen dominating him. I don't know what you are talking about the winning a week too soon. we beat MPCG in the district and regional title game. you must be talking about '96 which if not for illness probably could have happened again

"Bongo" would have the upper hand on klabo, on any of them Chuck, Darren, Leah you name it!!

i don't care how tall kyle nelson is, he's not very physical and waters would punish him inside. ask old mayville people

like was stated earlier who do you think taught Dave how to run the 1-2-1-1 or as its properly called the T-Bird Press? What do you think press Coach Nelson ran when he helped guide Hillsboro over Epping in '77? That press issue is a push.

the fact that Coach Beyer led the '96 team over MPCG, in a game hillsboro dominated for most of it, if you don't believe me i still have the tape of it, would tell me the "superburros would win over the superpatriots.

Ok...since your obviously from hillsboro and have bias I will yet again give you reasons why the MPCG all time team would beat hillsboro...pretty soundly.

The match up of Kyle and Craig at the 1.....I know Kyle is one of the best point guards to come out of ND....but Craig is THE BEST point guard to come out of ND....I know Kyle and he is a good friend...and i know he still dominates pickup games....but Craig is the smartest basketball player I've ever seen, and in the state tournament when they needed a basket, they put it in his hands, don't believe me? watch the tape.

I'm not sure on the height of the 2 guards, but i believe Ben has at least 3 inches and a bigger frame than McLean....and if i'm right he would take him down low and go to work, because size DOES matter.

If you honestly believe that Chipper Hanson would dominate Kraft you must have not watched him play EVER, and I know that I never personally saw Chipper play, but I have asked former coaches who coached against him, and who watched travis kraft, and they will tell you it's not even close, Travis Kraft is one of the most talented and best players to ever come out of ND (top 5), he was an absolute machine in Class B basketball....

You can have the offensive side of the 4 spot, but defensively Chuck Klabo was one of the best low post defenders i've seen, they wouldn't need Chuck to score.

And at the 5, if you don't care how tall someone is then you've never watched a well coached team, They would have to dig on Nelson everytime he touched it, otherwise nelson would turn around and shoot over him, and when you dig Nelson would kick it out for the wide open J.

Coaching: The Teacher vs. the student, I would never ever not in a million years say Eddie would ever be outcoached....but Dave is probably the second best coach in ND history (behind Eddie of course)...

Mayville over Hillsboro...and i don't think it's within 15.

Nelson-Morehart-Even
McLean-Jacobson-I never saw Mclean play
Hanson-Kraft-Kraft because of his size and superior athleticism, though I dont' believe he was one of the top 5 ever to come out of North Dakota
Waters-Klabo-Waters,Waters was dominant at 6'2, I saw Klabo play a bunch and was never that impressed, there was likely players from Mayville that should be on this starting unit before Klabo.
Nelson-Myers-never saw Myers play

I don't think anyone can say, "Hillsboro would definately win, or Mayville would definately win"...this is to close to call...anyone's game.

[itsallabouteddie]

well...i will disagree still....Craig Nelson is by FAR the smartest basketball player i have ever seen, he wasn't the scorer that morehart was, but if MPCG ever needed a basket Craig would come up with it...I'll give that matchup a wash...and i think i'm being generous

If McLean matched up on Jacobson- Ben would take him down in the post and ABUSE him, 5 inches and a soft touch = bad news for McLean

Travis Kraft is the most skilled player I've seen, I've heard my dad tell stories about Chipper Hanson...he was good...but Kraft would work him all game long. And I'm assuming that your refering to "the game" when hillsboro beat MPCG one week too soon.

I'll be nice and give ya the Klabo/Meyer matchup- Klabo was a rebounder and a defensive low post presence

Waters and Nelson- Again you can't teach height and nelson would have his way inside

Coaching I can't argue against Eddie....but i don't think even he would have a game plan to stop this basketball machine. (and ya never know, Craig might show his Grandpa a thing or too )

On Defense MPCG could put a 1-2-1-1 press on them and give the Burros nightmares

I will enjoy debating this one back and forth

i think morehart would give nelson fits. craig was quick but morehart is vastly quicker even still today

i think jacobson would have a slight edge of mclean

kraft would absolutely get owned by chipper. Chipper has no weakness the only thing kraft has on him is
height, which wouldn't bother Chipper. Hinsa is right about Olsen dominating him. I don't know what you are talking about the winning a week too soon. we beat MPCG in the district and regional title game. you must be talking about '96 which if not for illness probably could have happened again

"Bongo" would have the upper hand on klabo, on any of them Chuck, Darren, Leah you name it!!

i don't care how tall kyle nelson is, he's not very physical and waters would punish him inside. ask old mayville people

like was stated earlier who do you think taught Dave how to run the 1-2-1-1 or as its properly called the T-Bird Press? What do you think press Coach Nelson ran when he helped guide Hillsboro over Epping in '77? That press issue is a push.

the fact that Coach Beyer led the '96 team over MPCG, in a game hillsboro dominated for most of it, if you don't believe me i still have the tape of it, would tell me the "superburros would win over the superpatriots.

Ok...since your obviously from hillsboro and have bias I will yet again give you reasons why the MPCG all time team would beat hillsboro...pretty soundly.

The match up of Kyle and Craig at the 1.....I know Kyle is one of the best point guards to come out of ND....but Craig is THE BEST point guard to come out of ND....I know Kyle and he is a good friend...and i know he still dominates pickup games....but Craig is the smartest basketball player I've ever seen, and in the state tournament when they needed a basket, they put it in his hands, don't believe me? watch the tape.

I'm not sure on the height of the 2 guards, but i believe Ben has at least 3 inches and a bigger frame than McLean....and if i'm right he would take him down low and go to work, because size DOES matter.

If you honestly believe that Chipper Hanson would dominate Kraft you must have not watched him play EVER, and I know that I never personally saw Chipper play, but I have asked former coaches who coached against him, and who watched travis kraft, and they will tell you it's not even close, Travis Kraft is one of the most talented and best players to ever come out of ND (top 5), he was an absolute machine in Class B basketball....

You can have the offensive side of the 4 spot, but defensively Chuck Klabo was one of the best low post defenders i've seen, they wouldn't need Chuck to score.

And at the 5, if you don't care how tall someone is then you've never watched a well coached team, They would have to dig on Nelson everytime he touched it, otherwise nelson would turn around and shoot over him, and when you dig Nelson would kick it out for the wide open J.

Coaching: The Teacher vs. the student, I would never ever not in a million years say Eddie would ever be outcoached....but Dave is probably the second best coach in ND history (behind Eddie of course)...

Mayville over Hillsboro...and i don't think it's within 15.

Like i said kraft would get owned. ask Scott Olsen how he shut down kraft, which i did since i was on the team with him, and he said it was simple, he had seen kraft enough to know that when he handled the ball he was very predictable. he knew what he was gonna do and he used it against him. i think Olsen picked his pocket about 5 times that game. Chipper Hanson is also one of the best Class B players ever as well. i think you are underestimating his toughness. i've seen chipper hanson play a million times when i was younger, and i played against kraft a million times and i give the matchup to Chipper

As far as Craig at state, he's the point guard why wouldn't they put the ball in his hands? I still think Kyle would dominate him.

[ndlionsfan]

I don't think Flickinger was the 2nd best from Leeds. But yeah, you could put him at SF, too. Same result basically in my opinion. I know Wolf was from Wolford, but he played for Leeds his whole HS career in a coop. That's why I included him. Yeah, I should have given Jacobson more credit but I still think Haagenson was a better player and how competitive he was gives him a big advantage. If Haagenson would have continued his bball career at the next level more people would be aware of his talent. I compare him closely to Hunter Berg who everyone really got to see with what he did at Williston and UND.

[tommykramer]

MPCG vs Hillsboro isn't the subject.....I'll put up Leeds vs MPCG

PG - Brett Moser vs Craig Nelson....yeah Moser played a 3 his last two years, but he took a team to state playing the point as a sophomore. Craig and him are close to the same size, build, and speed. They were both great shooters and two of the smartest players I've seen play. It's a tossup.

SG - Jason Haagenson vs Ben Jacobson....not even close here. Haagenson would win this matchup. Tough as nails, quick as heck, best player on the court for each of these teams period.

SF - Corey Bisbee or Carl Ahlberg vs Kraft....pretty close matchup, but I'll give the edge to Kraft. Ahlberg and Kraft guarded each other in the 98 state tourney and played basically even on both ends of the court. Bisbee was another tough player, but since Ahlberg was a bit taller (6'2" to 5'10") I'd take him to match up against Kraft.

PF - Jeremy Wolf vs Klabo....not even close here either. Wolf is the best player from ND that nobody has heard of. If Wolford would have kept their stats when he was playing varsity in JH before playing with Leeds, he would have been one of the top 10 scorers in ND history. Wolf's post moves and soft touch would have dominated Klabo and their height and weight is basically a wash. He was a monster of the boards as well and Klabo wouldn't get a single offensive board.

C - Erik Engstrom vs. Kyle Nelsen...another close matchup. Could really go either way, but I'll give a slight edge to Nelsen. Kyle really improved his senior year and I was really impressed with how he played inside. He was very fundamentally sound. Engstrom was a good scorer and defender, but just like Nelsen didn't play against too many people his same size in HS. If you put them head to head, Nelsen gets the nod because of fundamentals.

Overall, I think if these two teams played against each other 10 times, Leeds pulls it off 6-4 with the difference being Jason Haagenson. He would take them on his back when it mattered and will his team to a win.

You can't seriously believe this?

AND, your going to take Hillsboro out of the picture - Hillsboro WAS class B basketball through the 70's and 80's. The players from Hillsboro alot of times didn't get alot of credit or big stats because of their coach. There were some players from Hillsboro that would have been 4 year starters at most schools who didn't even start until they were seniors do to the amount of quality players that were in that system. Don't get me wrong Leeds, Leeds/Wolford had some nice players but to say that Hillsboro shouldn't be in the discussion is ridiculous. BY the way MPCG wins 9 out of 10 over Leeds, and probably splits with Hillsboro.

[ndlionsfan]

I never said Leeds and MPCG were the best two teams ever. I was just comparing them. I think Leeds was just as good as MPCG and Hillsboro. Same with the top 5 from Minnewaukan, Munich, Trinity probably, Glen Ullen, Rugby, and a host of others. It's just too hard to compare all of them from different time periods. I just hate the fact that everyone thinks MPCG and Hillsboro are the top bball programs in the state and no other programs/players even compare.

[tommykramer]

MPCG vs Hillsboro isn't the subject.....I'll put up Leeds vs MPCG

Isn't this how your post started?

[Flying Wallenda]

I don't think Flickinger was the 2nd best from Leeds. But yeah, you could put him at SF, too. Same result basically in my opinion. I know Wolf was from Wolford, but he played for Leeds his whole HS career in a coop. That's why I included him. Yeah, I should have given Jacobson more credit but I still think Haagenson was a better player and how competitive he was gives him a big advantage. If Haagenson would have continued his bball career at the next level more people would be aware of his talent. I compare him closely to Hunter Berg who everyone really got to see with what he did at Williston and UND.

Leed cooped with Wolford in 91-92....Wolf was a role player off the bench that didn't log big minutes....as a Junior/Senior he averaged about 17-20 pts a game and 8-10 boards a game...no doubt a good player, and an excellent face up shooter for a big man, but to say he was the "best player from North Dakota no one heard of" is stretching it...after all, he did play in the state in 93 as well, so he must have got some attention....many players have put up similar numbers to Wolf....as far as the Haagenson/Berg comparison, I don't think that's accurate. Berg was a pass first point guard, Haagenson was a shoot first point guard....I can still see Berg driving down the lane past 3 defenders and zipping the ball to the corner to Gunlikson for a 3....that was his game....when Haagenson drove, he was driving to make contact/get to the line and score...don't get me wrong, both GREAT players, but to me the comparison doesn't fit. Haagenson was ultracompetitive, but wasn't Jacobson as well???

[cubsfan]

I never said Leeds and MPCG were the best two teams ever. I was just comparing them. I think Leeds was just as good as MPCG and Hillsboro. Same with the top 5 from Minnewaukan, Munich, Trinity probably, Glen Ullen, Rugby, and a host of others. It's just too hard to compare all of them from different time periods. I just hate the fact that everyone thinks MPCG and Hillsboro are the top bball programs in the state and no other programs/players even compare.

I would say that Mayville, Portland, then Mayville-Portland, then May-Port-Clifford-Galesburg is the BEST program in the state. I don't know how anyone could argue that.

[ndlionsfan]

MPCG vs Hillsboro isn't the subject.....I'll put up Leeds vs MPCG

Isn't this how your post started?

That was in reply to Schwab saying to get back on topic. The topic is about all time school tourney teams....not just MPCG vs Hillsboro.

[ndlionsfan]

I never said Leeds and MPCG were the best two teams ever. I was just comparing them. I think Leeds was just as good as MPCG and Hillsboro. Same with the top 5 from Minnewaukan, Munich, Trinity probably, Glen Ullen, Rugby, and a host of others. It's just too hard to compare all of them from different time periods. I just hate the fact that everyone thinks MPCG and Hillsboro are the top bball programs in the state and no other programs/players even compare.

I would say that Mayville, Portland, then Mayville-Portland, then May-Port-Clifford-Galesburg is the BEST program in the state. I don't know how anyone could argue that.

Without a doubt over the history of class B bball Mayville is the best program. I'm just trying to say not be so narrow minded in thinking they are the only program that has continually produced the best players. There are many other programs that have produced a good number of great bball players across this state that most people on this site probably have never heard of. I'd like people to expand this topic and try to bring up other players and good programs with tradition who's top 5 of all time could compare with the MPCG and HIllsboro's.

[The Schwab]

Finley-Sharon:

1. Aric Bomber- Good defender, quick, good court vision
2. Mark Verwest- Schools second all time leading scorer, good shooter
3. Chris Reinhart- Best player to come from either school hands down, one of the best players no one has heard about, All time leading scorer, school leader in about a dozen categories.
4. Will Blunk- Hard Working, Good rebounder, pretty athletic
5. Don Goughnour- Tall, Very tall....good shot blocker.

Bench: Tanner and Dillan Ostrom, Jason Walswick and Rob Heraldson.

Now i know this team isn't going to beat many all time school teams...just adding to the list.