North Dakota Preps

In the late 1980's we had approx. 213 Class B basketball districts in North Dakota. Now we are down to about 122 or so. Where are we headed? What does everybody think?

lotta bb wrote:In the late 1980's we had approx. 213 Class B basketball districts in North Dakota. Now we are down to about 122 or so. Where are we headed? What does everybody think?

those numbers the perfect reason to have three classes. perfect. let me repeat. perfect. absolutely perfect.

my above comment is dripping with sarcasm.

Great comment! I couldn't agree with you more. Just think we might hit 80 and than just divide it in two.It used to be just the first place team in the district advanced to Regionals - of course there were more districts in each Region, but man! the numbers are really shrinking and it really sets one to wondering where the point of diminishing return or no return will be.

It's not just Class B basketball its all of rural North Dakota that's losing population and even North Dakota in general.   So people...keep your kids in ND!!!!

ND could be headed towards many County teams/schools in not too distant future.  Except for the larger cities like Fargo, Bismarck etc.

 

ya at the rate we are going it would be pointless for three class system. Personally If i was in a class B school and was doing well i would want to transfer out. Class B games are fun to watch and the atmosphere is great. But u just get noticed more being from class A.

 

County teams, Ah yes. We have a good start on that now with teams in the state that include one for the whole county such as Divide County. The travel would be interesting as it is now for some of the small fb schools. Many of the games would or might be played on friday and saturday evenings like the small schools in western Montana because of the distance factor as to not lose school time. No doubt more consolidations and co-ops will be coming. 

klg_11 wrote:ya at the rate we are going it would be pointless for three class system. Personally If i was in a class B school and was doing well i would want to transfer out. Class B games are fun to watch and the atmosphere is great. But u just get noticed more being from class A.

 

It's happening more than you think. And I think it happens in minn. somewhat also.

Another interesting item is just the reverse-some kids slide into the class B school to get more playing time because they probably couldn't make the top eight rotation in the big school

lotta bb wrote:

klg_11 wrote:ya at the rate we are going it would be pointless for three class system. Personally If i was in a class B school and was doing well i would want to transfer out. Class B games are fun to watch and the atmosphere is great. But u just get noticed more being from class A.

 

It's happening more than you think. And I think it happens in minn. somewhat also.

Another interesting item is just the reverse-some kids slide into the class B school to get more playing time because they probably couldn't make the top eight rotation in the big school

ya i have heard of that also. but my cousin was one to go from class B to A couple years ago and it payed off for him.

klg_11 wrote:

lotta bb wrote:

klg_11 wrote:ya at the rate we are going it would be pointless for three class system. Personally If i was in a class B school and was doing well i would want to transfer out. Class B games are fun to watch and the atmosphere is great. But u just get noticed more being from class A.

 

It's happening more than you think. And I think it happens in minn. somewhat also.

Another interesting item is just the reverse-some kids slide into the class B school to get more playing time because they probably couldn't make the top eight rotation in the big school

ya i have heard of that also. but my cousin was one to go from class B to A couple years ago and it payed off for him.

Hey great for him! Something else that might even be more realistic is the fact that some players who play in a real small school would even go to a larger class B school because of the proximity and the fact that a class A school might just be too far away or not feasible. I have seen that happen because some of those large Class B schools are relatively close to the media in the large interstate schools, so they get some coverage on the tube and in ink.

You do have to take into consideration though how many schools back then had 40-50 students in the high school and still played alone (without a co-op). For some reason, that never happens anymore. Especially in the eastern part of the state, co-ops seem to be the 'thing to do'. I understand if the school district intends to consolidate, but most of those schools have no intention of doing so. Co-ops are meant to give more kids a chance to play, not add them because this town or that town has a few good athletes and with them you'll end up in the state tournament.

Look at these schools that co-op: It's hard for me to believe they can't still field a team on their own since many schools smaller continue to:

Belfield (90 students)-South Heart (93 student)=183

Hatton (91 students)-Northwood (110)=201

Midway (84)-Minto (76)= 160

Park River (130)-Fordville-Lankin (40)=170 I only included this one because I don't think schools should be allowed to switch back and forth with co-ops, since for awhile it was Midway-FL.

North Border: Pembina-Neche (65)-Walhalla (95)=160

North Star (for volleyball): Bisbee-Egeland (34)-Cando (72)- Munich (48)-Starkweather (35)=189  I find it hard to believe that Munich-Starkweather can't field a team alone...or could it be that they're just tired of Landgon dominating so everyone wants to co-op?

Finley-Sharon (51)-Hope-Page (94)=145...this one could be stretching it a little.

They might be able to field a basketball team, but the smaller school in the co-op's probably would not be able to field a football team.  I know of at least one guy that would not have played football had it not been for the co-op.  Now he's on UND's football team.

I think also that a lot of schools co-op and consolidate because the expense is growing and they want a level playing field so to speak for the athletes. They want to be able to compete with the larger Class B schools. But it is correct that many small schools had there own teams. Heck! I think we even used to have 6 man fb back in the day. But the basketball landscape is really changing thats for sure

There's a difference though between co-ops and consolidation.  Midkota is a consolidation as is Dakota Prairie. Hatton-Northwood and Midway-Minto is a co-op.

I do believe more schools should look into consolidation because of the cost to educate 40 kids when there's another school 6 miles down the road with 40 kids. That just makes sense.

If you're saving money in a co-op it's very little.  There's still the travel expense to and from schools, which gas in a bus goes pretty fast.  Small class B schools on top of that pay their coaches almost nothing.  So when you're looking at an overall school budget, $800 saved is a drop in the bucket.

 

vballfan06 wrote:You do have to take into consideration though how many schools back then had 40-50 students in the high school and still played alone (without a co-op). For some reason, that never happens anymore. Especially in the eastern part of the state, co-ops seem to be the 'thing to do'. I understand if the school district intends to consolidate, but most of those schools have no intention of doing so. Co-ops are meant to give more kids a chance to play, not add them because this town or that town has a few good athletes and with them you'll end up in the state tournament.

Look at these schools that co-op: It's hard for me to believe they can't still field a team on their own since many schools smaller continue to:

Belfield (90 students)-South Heart (93 student)=183

Hatton (91 students)-Northwood (110)=201

Midway (84)-Minto (76)= 160

Park River (130)-Fordville-Lankin (40)=170 I only included this one because I don't think schools should be allowed to switch back and forth with co-ops, since for awhile it was Midway-FL.

North Border: Pembina-Neche (65)-Walhalla (95)=160

North Star (for volleyball): Bisbee-Egeland (34)-Cando (72)- Munich (48)-Starkweather (35)=189  I find it hard to believe that Munich-Starkweather can't field a team alone...or could it be that they're just tired of Landgon dominating so everyone wants to co-op?

Finley-Sharon (51)-Hope-Page (94)=145...this one could be stretching it a little.

I agree with everything you said....it's exactly what I was thinking, too.  I think another big factor in coops is that there are more squads nowdays than 20 some years ago.  I believe a lot of the really small schools just had 1 team - varsity.  That way you only needed 10 guys out for the team.  Now schools want to have 3 squads - C, JV, and Varsity - which means you want around 25 kids out for the team and a lot of schools just don't have that many kids willing to play.  The hatton-northwood coop has always puzzled me.  They have around 40 kids out for bball between the two schools.  Isn't that enough to have two separate teams??  I think that coop is based more on having more success than a numbers issue.

I went to a scrimage saturday at Drake and had time to walk the halls and look for old college buddies. Saw the picture of the STATE RUNNER UP photo and thought about the 4 young men that played football and baseball at Mayville in the 80's. The downtown was almost a memory as far as open businesses. And when the boys of Drake were the runners up the place was probably still a hopping place. It was mention that 123 schools are the field of class B basketball. In a few years it could easily be 73. It is easy to see that consolidation and more co-ops are going to have to happen. Some of the small teams will in no way compete with the bigger schools and there is a huge amount of pride in being an average player on a respectable team. Some of the games that I have watched in class b some teams have one or two kids that would play on a Hazen, to beat most of these teams it is that are not of Hazen status they just shut down the one kid and its over. This takes the team sport out completely, and you think if the one or two kids that are ok had someone to play with what could happen? But in those situations they don't have a B squad, can't find help coaching, and have a school with leadership that will not be proactive. I do not think having a 3 class system will help this. A 3 class system wll just delay the shrinking landscape of class b basketball. I don't want anyone to think that I am picking on Drake the State champs in Zeeland have a shrinking landscape too.

old lineman wrote:I went to a scrimage saturday at Drake and had time to walk the halls and look for old college buddies. Saw the picture of the STATE RUNNER UP photo and thought about the 4 young men that played football and baseball at Mayville in the 80's. The downtown was almost a memory as far as open businesses. And when the boys of Drake were the runners up the place was probably still a hopping place. It was mention that 123 schools are the field of class B basketball. In a few years it could easily be 73. It is easy to see that consolidation and more co-ops are going to have to happen. Some of the small teams will in no way compete with the bigger schools and there is a huge amount of pride in being an average player on a respectable team. Some of the games that I have watched in class b some teams have one or two kids that would play on a Hazen, to beat most of these teams it is that are not of Hazen status they just shut down the one kid and its over. This takes the team sport out completely, and you think if the one or two kids that are ok had someone to play with what could happen? But in those situations they don't have a B squad, can't find help coaching, and have a school with leadership that will not be proactive. I do not think having a 3 class system will help this. A 3 class system wll just delay the shrinking landscape of class b basketball. I don't want anyone to think that I am picking on Drake the State champs in Zeeland have a shrinking landscape too.

I think not only are the numbers shrinking in the smaller schools but also the talent pool. And what I mean by that is lets say Johnny is a stud at Zeeland and gets a scholarship to play at NDSU, more than likely when he's done he's either going to take his degree and get a job in Fargo or one of the other bigger towns. It would be unlikely he'd take his degree and move back to Zeeland.

ndlionsfan wrote:

vballfan06 wrote:You do have to take into consideration though how many schools back then had 40-50 students in the high school and still played alone (without a co-op). For some reason, that never happens anymore. Especially in the eastern part of the state, co-ops seem to be the 'thing to do'. I understand if the school district intends to consolidate, but most of those schools have no intention of doing so. Co-ops are meant to give more kids a chance to play, not add them because this town or that town has a few good athletes and with them you'll end up in the state tournament.

Look at these schools that co-op: It's hard for me to believe they can't still field a team on their own since many schools smaller continue to:

Belfield (90 students)-South Heart (93 student)=183

Hatton (91 students)-Northwood (110)=201

Midway (84)-Minto (76)= 160

Park River (130)-Fordville-Lankin (40)=170 I only included this one because I don't think schools should be allowed to switch back and forth with co-ops, since for awhile it was Midway-FL.

North Border: Pembina-Neche (65)-Walhalla (95)=160

North Star (for volleyball): Bisbee-Egeland (34)-Cando (72)- Munich (48)-Starkweather (35)=189  I find it hard to believe that Munich-Starkweather can't field a team alone...or could it be that they're just tired of Landgon dominating so everyone wants to co-op?

Finley-Sharon (51)-Hope-Page (94)=145...this one could be stretching it a little.

I agree with everything you said....it's exactly what I was thinking, too.  I think another big factor in coops is that there are more squads nowdays than 20 some years ago.  I believe a lot of the really small schools just had 1 team - varsity.  That way you only needed 10 guys out for the team.  Now schools want to have 3 squads - C, JV, and Varsity - which means you want around 25 kids out for the team and a lot of schools just don't have that many kids willing to play.  The hatton-northwood coop has always puzzled me.  They have around 40 kids out for bball between the two schools.  Isn't that enough to have two separate teams??  I think that coop is based more on having more success than a numbers issue.

I agree regarding Hatton and Northwood....both schools had sufficient numbers to continue with their own teams. Cooping before it is necassary is a positive for your "top end" kids....they get to play with kids that are at their skill level. It is a negative for your average players...they get pinched out due to bloated numbers. Sure, the cooped team will win more games, but the kids that aren't neccassirly the star athletes will lose out on, at the minimum, playing time, and at the maximum, the opportunity to be part of a team and represent their school. Sure, a school like North Border (another coop that shouldn't have happened) has a no cut policy. What this means is kids that likely would have played for pembina or Neche get to be on the team, but won't see the floor. Is it a positive to be on the team?? Of course...but, shouldn't kids have the opportunity to play if the numbers say their town has enough interested kids to go out?