State Tournament a Joke

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State Tournament a Joke

Postby slapshot » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:31 pm

I Know theres nothing that can be done but why are only 2 games a day at the "ralph" The Girls and Boys State and 2 Souix Games all in the Same weekend. All other games at "Purper"??? Might as well play a couple games at "VFW" rink Mabye a couple games at the "East Side" rink, and While we are at it lets schedule the Bantam A, A-2, B-1, B-2 Tourneys that weekend to. That way they can make all their $$$ in one weekend!!! Lets vote who thinks the boys and girls should be on seperate weekends ...
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby gfhockey » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:54 pm

Id say its obviously a joke too. It should have the girls play out west like they use to. The boys get gipped out of the TV coverage and girls hockey isnt that big in the state. I bet the region basketball tournaments and regionals for class B generate more $$$$ then girls class A hockey state title.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby SportsDoc » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:00 pm

slapshot wrote:I Know theres nothing that can be done but why are only 2 games a day at the "ralph" The Girls and Boys State and 2 Souix Games all in the Same weekend. All other games at "Purper"??? Might as well play a couple games at "VFW" rink Mabye a couple games at the "East Side" rink, and While we are at it lets schedule the Bantam A, A-2, B-1, B-2 Tourneys that weekend to. That way they can make all their $$$ in one weekend!!! Lets vote who thinks the boys and girls should be on seperate weekends ...


My information is that Day 1, all four Boys' Quarterfinal games are in Englestad and all four Girls' Quarterfinal games are at Purpur. Then on Friday, Girls' Semifinals and Boys' Semifinals are at Englestad, with both Consolation brackets at Purpur. Saturday, only the title games are in Englestad.

As for Sioux games, they can request to be gone, but WCHA does not have to honor that request, so you get what you get here, and I don't know if they request to be gone during State weekend. As for going to separate weekends, High School Activities will not go head to head with themselves for State Tournaments in different Sports, so since Wrestling is the Week before and Basketball is the three weekends after, there is really nothing that can be done.

The possibility is to use the new rink in Fargo at some point, especially if the Sioux will be home. There is no rink in the West that can accommodate the State Tournament, in my opinion. I believe NDHSAA schedules two years in advance, while WCHA does there league schedule three years out, so you would think there is the ability to adjust where State is held. I do not think you will see the Boys and Girls in different locations anymore. Between administrative issues and Title IX ramifications, I suspect they are married at this point to the same location in some way, shape or form.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby HockeyHigh » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:01 pm

SportsDoc wrote:Between administrative issues and Title IX ramifications, I suspect they are married at this point to the same location in some way, shape or form.


I know morally it's completely wrong, but I have a certain disdain for Title IX. I don't think it fairly represents the clear differences between sexes, and unfairly hinders the advancement of men's sports in far more places than just High School sports. Although I certainly think that it's great that female athletics are now getting more attention, I just don't see enough interest in them to force the advancement of a male sport that has been increasing exponentially.
For example, to simply add a sport to a college, there must be an equally represented female sport added at the same time. What if this sport and demand aren't there? That means that neither a female or a male sport is added, and the athletics of the college suffer. I do agree that sexually biasing sports is unfair, but when the demand for a sport is there, it should dang well be added if the financial terms are there, whether or not there is a female sport added.
In a more related note, how do you think Minnesota would feel if our High School State games took place in the XCel the same day as their state high school state games, and forced the other games to some far inferior arena with zero coverage? It's demeaning to a clearly more popular and received event, and is completely unfair. In respect to ND tournaments, the Girls' tournament is impeding on the Boys' tournament which has always been arranged to have as much coverage and use of the Engelstad as possible, and now they are being forced to a far inferior arena with almost zero coverage and no atmosphere. How do you expect a team to feel like they're at state when they aren't even playing at the same arena as the other teams? It's completely demeaning to the teams that end up in the consolation bracket, and even the teams that go to the 3rd place game. I can also almost guarantee you that the previous boys games that were on the television that were part of the losers brackets/games got more hype than the girls' championship game last year. There's just no interest, and it's hurting the Boys rather than helping the girls.
I honestly have no idea where the NDHSAA was going with this change.

I know it's pretty politically incorrect, but i had to voice my opinion.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby Sioux4ever » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:43 pm

HockeyHigh wrote:
SportsDoc wrote:Between administrative issues and Title IX ramifications, I suspect they are married at this point to the same location in some way, shape or form.


I know morally it's completely wrong, but I have a certain disdain for Title IX. I don't think it fairly represents the clear differences between sexes, and unfairly hinders the advancement of men's sports in far more places than just High School sports. Although I certainly think that it's great that female athletics are now getting more attention, I just don't see enough interest in them to force the advancement of a male sport that has been increasing exponentially.
For example, to simply add a sport to a college, there must be an equally represented female sport added at the same time. What if this sport and demand aren't there? That means that neither a female or a male sport is added, and the athletics of the college suffer. I do agree that sexually biasing sports is unfair, but when the demand for a sport is there, it should dang well be added if the financial terms are there, whether or not there is a female sport added.
In a more related note, how do you think Minnesota would feel if our High School State games took place in the XCel the same day as their state high school state games, and forced the other games to some far inferior arena with zero coverage? It's demeaning to a clearly more popular and received event, and is completely unfair. In respect to ND tournaments, the Girls' tournament is impeding on the Boys' tournament which has always been arranged to have as much coverage and use of the Engelstad as possible, and now they are being forced to a far inferior arena with almost zero coverage and no atmosphere. How do you expect a team to feel like they're at state when they aren't even playing at the same arena as the other teams? It's completely demeaning to the teams that end up in the consolation bracket, and even the teams that go to the 3rd place game. I can also almost guarantee you that the previous boys games that were on the television that were part of the losers brackets/games got more hype than the girls' championship game last year. There's just no interest, and it's hurting the Boys rather than helping the girls.
I honestly have no idea where the NDHSAA was going with this change.

I know it's pretty politically incorrect, but i had to voice my opinion.


I would think if they wanted the girls state tournament to become a crowd filler, they definitely should not have it at the same location as the Boys state tournament. It has only made their crowds smaller I believe. The girls state tournament should be played the same weekend as the Boys Regionals since girls do not have Regionals.

HH-sometimes being politically correct isn't right, and being politically incorrect isnt wrong.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby central hockey fan » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:55 pm

Well hh, I have to agree with you and you made your point on Title 9 quite well. I see it as economic BS. When you look at bigger schools, you have to consider where you are getting your revenue. Title 9 is simply a rob peter to pay paul situation. To a point you have to let the fan dictate what you do because no matter what anyone says, sports at any level isn't immune to financial reality.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby sportsman101 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:03 pm

amen to all of your comments... long story short atleast in the state of north dakota and the situation at hand girls hockey is ruining the state tournament. i cant give a good solution to the problem other than the girls need to play somewhere else rather than screwing the boys out of the ralph
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby SportsDoc » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:33 pm

sportsman101 wrote:amen to all of your comments... long story short atleast in the state of north dakota and the situation at hand girls hockey is ruining the state tournament. i cant give a good solution to the problem other than the girls need to play somewhere else rather than screwing the boys out of the ralph


How does having the Girls in GF with the Boys ruin the State Tournament? Boys still get first round at the Ralph, and as long as you win, you stay at the Ralph. Boys still get the Semifinals and the Title game on live TV, no different. Boys still get the evening sessions on Friday and Saturday.

As to the Title IX issues, you can argue against it all you want, but it is a Federal issue, not a State issue. Any and all lawsuits filed with respect to discrimination of Title IX are in the Federal Court system, and I don't believe a State Association fighting those cases has ever won (see South Dakota). Why do you think NDHSAA switched Girls BB and Volleyball seasons around? Due to threat of a Federal discrimination lawsuit that would have cost up to $1M to fight, with virtually no chance to win. You can disagree with it. You can not like it. But, you will not change it.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby HockeyHigh » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:14 am

SportsDoc wrote:How does having the Girls in GF with the Boys ruin the State Tournament? Boys still get first round at the Ralph, and as long as you win, you stay at the Ralph. Boys still get the Semifinals and the Title game on live TV, no different. Boys still get the evening sessions on Friday and Saturday.


Well first of all, I don't see why the Girls' tournament must be the same weekend as State, since they don't even have a regional tournament to play anyways. Beyond this, what kind of tournament atmosphere is it when you lose a single game and you end up playing in a sub par arena on the other side of the town, far from where the victorious teams are playing. It really destroys the feeling of a state tournament, and is an unnecessary punishment to those that would normally be playing in the consolation bracket in the place that is the only reason that the tournament is always in the same place anyways.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but before they had the Consolation, Semifinals, 3rd place, and the championship on television. Now they have the girls championship (which likely got worse ratings than the 8th place game would receive), the semifinals, and the championship on television.
The arena and the perks of the arena were the only reason that State should've always been in Grand Forks. However, now that the UP has been built, I see no reason why this has to be the case. The tournament should always be getting better for both Boys' and Girls' hockey, not worse. If they can't at least manage to equal what they had been doing previously, I believe they should just ship the state tournament over to Fargo, I'm sure they'd welcome it openhanded.

Title IX is far too skewed and distorted from its true intention for me to even discuss, and I can't do anything about it by voicing my opinion anyways, so I won't even get into it anymore.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby SportsDoc » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:24 am

HockeyHigh wrote:
SportsDoc wrote:How does having the Girls in GF with the Boys ruin the State Tournament? Boys still get first round at the Ralph, and as long as you win, you stay at the Ralph. Boys still get the Semifinals and the Title game on live TV, no different. Boys still get the evening sessions on Friday and Saturday.


Well first of all, I don't see why the Girls' tournament must be the same weekend as State, since they don't even have a regional tournament to play anyways. Beyond this, what kind of tournament atmosphere is it when you lose a single game and you end up playing in a sub par arena on the other side of the town, far from where the victorious teams are playing. It really destroys the feeling of a state tournament, and is an unnecessary punishment to those that would normally be playing in the consolation bracket in the place that is the only reason that the tournament is always in the same place anyways.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but before they had the Consolation, Semifinals, 3rd place, and the championship on television. Now they have the girls championship (which likely got worse ratings than the 8th place game would receive), the semifinals, and the championship on television.
The arena and the perks of the arena were the only reason that State should've always been in Grand Forks. However, now that the UP has been built, I see no reason why this has to be the case. The tournament should always be getting better for both Boys' and Girls' hockey, not worse. If they can't at least manage to equal what they had been doing previously, I believe they should just ship the state tournament over to Fargo, I'm sure they'd welcome it openhanded.

Title IX is far too skewed and distorted from its true intention for me to even discuss, and I can't do anything about it by voicing my opinion anyways, so I won't even get into it anymore.


You certainly can voice your opinion, it just won't matter. Neither will mine. It is not a changeable option. As for different weekends, you have issues there too. Remember NDHSAA does not like to go head to head with any other events they sponsor, and the weekend before is State wrestling, and the three weekends after are all State BB Tournaments. So where do you go? You also can't start girls hockey earlier to end earlier because Volleyball does not get over till around November 15-20. You can't shorten the season, time wise, because that again becomes an equality issue. If the Boys have a 22 week season, the Girls must have a 22 week season, also.

As for TV, the Network bids have excluded all but the Title Game on Saturday for many years. It has nothing to do with the Girls moving to GF, it has to do with viewership and sponsors. It just doesn't sell.

Now, if the Sioux were on the road, you would have the option of using the Olympic for the Consolation rounds and keeping everyone in the building. I would like to see the whole Tournament moved to Fargo when the Sioux are in GF. It seems their new arena could be a good alternative venue, though I've never been in it. And, you would still need two ice sheets. But, they deserve a chance to host it and see how they do.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby Hockey10 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:08 am

Having state in fargo makes no sense. It has been in GF for so long it would make no sense to change it now. During the championchip game the lower bowl is completely full and 1 year they had to open the upper levels because of so many people. The UPC does not have the sort of room like the ralph does and the UPC is way to hot and teh ice gets soft and slow. And if you try to get more people in the arena it will get even warmer in there and the ice would be terrible. The ralph knows how to keep their ice in good condition.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby SportsDoc » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:27 am

Hockey10 wrote:Having state in fargo makes no sense. It has been in GF for so long it would make no sense to change it now. During the championchip game the lower bowl is completely full and 1 year they had to open the upper levels because of so many people. The UPC does not have the sort of room like the ralph does and the UPC is way to hot and teh ice gets soft and slow. And if you try to get more people in the arena it will get even warmer in there and the ice would be terrible. The ralph knows how to keep their ice in good condition.


Well, the Ralph has been open for 8 seasons, now. They had many ice issues at first, too. It's a learning curve. The UPC will figure it out. A half full Ralph (or a bit more for one Title games) does not generate the crowd enthusiasm of a full arena. I have been to every State at the Ralph, and you could get a seat in virtually any section in the lower bowl for the Title games, even after the puck dropped. And, to me, the atmosphere at the Ralph for a State Title game leaves a lot to be desired. The building rocks when it's full, it's never full for HS hockey.

So, a full UPC might have a better atmosphere for the players and fans than the current venue, believe it or not. We'll never know till we give it a try. We don't need to be married to the Ralph. I don't get why having the Tournament in Fargo "...makes no sense...". In fact, when the Sioux are in GF, it makes very good sense, to me. We need to be forward thinking. Doing something a certain way because we've always done it that way is not very good thinking. Neither is changing just for the sake of change. But sometimes change can be a good thing.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby central hockey fan » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:05 pm

SportsDoc wrote:
Hockey10 wrote:Having state in fargo makes no sense. It has been in GF for so long it would make no sense to change it now. During the championchip game the lower bowl is completely full and 1 year they had to open the upper levels because of so many people. The UPC does not have the sort of room like the ralph does and the UPC is way to hot and teh ice gets soft and slow. And if you try to get more people in the arena it will get even warmer in there and the ice would be terrible. The ralph knows how to keep their ice in good condition.


Well, the Ralph has been open for 8 seasons, now. They had many ice issues at first, too. It's a learning curve. The UPC will figure it out. A half full Ralph (or a bit more for one Title games) does not generate the crowd enthusiasm of a full arena. I have been to every State at the Ralph, and you could get a seat in virtually any section in the lower bowl for the Title games, even after the puck dropped. And, to me, the atmosphere at the Ralph for a State Title game leaves a lot to be desired. The building rocks when it's full, it's never full for HS hockey.

So, a full UPC might have a better atmosphere for the players and fans than the current venue, believe it or not. We'll never know till we give it a try. We don't need to be married to the Ralph. I don't get why having the Tournament in Fargo "...makes no sense...". In fact, when the Sioux are in GF, it makes very good sense, to me. We need to be forward thinking. Doing something a certain way because we've always done it that way is not very good thinking. Neither is changing just for the sake of change. But sometimes change can be a good thing.


I can't believe I'm going to say this but if the UPC gets their ice situation figured out and the parking lot isn't just a dark field, I think it would be fun to have the state tourney there. And here is why:

1. There are more things to do in Fargo, more motels, places to eat etc.
2. A full house would be fun. I used to go to section 8 championship games in Warroad, EGF etc. and that was the most fun to sit in a packed house.
3. Its more convienient for most of the state (sorry Grafton)
4. The Ralph is huge.....even at some Sioux games it can be hard to get the crowd into it
5. Maybe that would spur on other cities in ND to build nicer rinks, then they can get the state tourney

I'm from GF and this may be shooting myself in the foot but I guess if it makes sense, it just does.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby gfhockey » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:11 pm

SportsDoc wrote:
Hockey10 wrote:Having state in fargo makes no sense. It has been in GF for so long it would make no sense to change it now. During the championchip game the lower bowl is completely full and 1 year they had to open the upper levels because of so many people. The UPC does not have the sort of room like the ralph does and the UPC is way to hot and teh ice gets soft and slow. And if you try to get more people in the arena it will get even warmer in there and the ice would be terrible. The ralph knows how to keep their ice in good condition.


Well, the Ralph has been open for 8 seasons, now. They had many ice issues at first, too. It's a learning curve. The UPC will figure it out. A half full Ralph (or a bit more for one Title games) does not generate the crowd enthusiasm of a full arena. I have been to every State at the Ralph, and you could get a seat in virtually any section in the lower bowl for the Title games, even after the puck dropped. And, to me, the atmosphere at the Ralph for a State Title game leaves a lot to be desired. The building rocks when it's full, it's never full for HS hockey.

So, a full UPC might have a better atmosphere for the players and fans than the current venue, believe it or not. We'll never know till we give it a try. We don't need to be married to the Ralph. I don't get why having the Tournament in Fargo "...makes no sense...". In fact, when the Sioux are in GF, it makes very good sense, to me. We need to be forward thinking. Doing something a certain way because we've always done it that way is not very good thinking. Neither is changing just for the sake of change. But sometimes change can be a good thing.


Well I take it you must have missed one because once RR PLayved GFC in a title game, they had to open up the top. I htink attendance for that game was around 6600. ANother time when they could have opend up the top was a couple eyars ago (not alst year) when RR played GPR


SO ur telling me, during a title game between gfc and gfrr there is a seat open in there student section or a seat open in gpr student section? Highly doubt that unless its a first round guarenteed win in which most times it is. End Rant!
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby SportsDoc » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:57 pm

gfhockey wrote:
SportsDoc wrote:
Hockey10 wrote:Having state in fargo makes no sense. It has been in GF for so long it would make no sense to change it now. During the championchip game the lower bowl is completely full and 1 year they had to open the upper levels because of so many people. The UPC does not have the sort of room like the ralph does and the UPC is way to hot and teh ice gets soft and slow. And if you try to get more people in the arena it will get even warmer in there and the ice would be terrible. The ralph knows how to keep their ice in good condition.


Well, the Ralph has been open for 8 seasons, now. They had many ice issues at first, too. It's a learning curve. The UPC will figure it out. A half full Ralph (or a bit more for one Title games) does not generate the crowd enthusiasm of a full arena. I have been to every State at the Ralph, and you could get a seat in virtually any section in the lower bowl for the Title games, even after the puck dropped. And, to me, the atmosphere at the Ralph for a State Title game leaves a lot to be desired. The building rocks when it's full, it's never full for HS hockey.

So, a full UPC might have a better atmosphere for the players and fans than the current venue, believe it or not. We'll never know till we give it a try. We don't need to be married to the Ralph. I don't get why having the Tournament in Fargo "...makes no sense...". In fact, when the Sioux are in GF, it makes very good sense, to me. We need to be forward thinking. Doing something a certain way because we've always done it that way is not very good thinking. Neither is changing just for the sake of change. But sometimes change can be a good thing.


Well I take it you must have missed one because once RR PLayved GFC in a title game, they had to open up the top. I htink attendance for that game was around 6600. ANother time when they could have opend up the top was a couple eyars ago (not alst year) when RR played GPR


SO ur telling me, during a title game between gfc and gfrr there is a seat open in there student section or a seat open in gpr student section? Highly doubt that unless its a first round guarenteed win in which most times it is. End Rant!


Student sections are always full. I am not speaking of student sections. I'm not a student. I'm speaking of others. And just because they opened the top, doesn't mean the bottom was full, quite the contrary. It might have been had they left the top closed, but they figured GFC/RR would require more seats, so they opened it up. This, in turn, opened some seats below, as some people like to be not so close, I suppose, or else figured the top would be less crowded. As you state, at the largest event we know of for HS hockey in ND, there was 6,600 in an 11,600+ stadium. Not exactly filling the house, is it? So, it's quite possible to use the UPC then, from a seating perspective.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby Hockey10 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:01 pm

They didn't even open the top untill the bottom was full... and yes fargo does have more to do, but the only places teams are, are the rink playing, watching other games, restaurants, and hotels. GF can supply all of that easily.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby gfhockey » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:54 pm

SportsDoc wrote:
gfhockey wrote:
SportsDoc wrote:
Hockey10 wrote:Having state in fargo makes no sense. It has been in GF for so long it would make no sense to change it now. During the championchip game the lower bowl is completely full and 1 year they had to open the upper levels because of so many people. The UPC does not have the sort of room like the ralph does and the UPC is way to hot and teh ice gets soft and slow. And if you try to get more people in the arena it will get even warmer in there and the ice would be terrible. The ralph knows how to keep their ice in good condition.


Well, the Ralph has been open for 8 seasons, now. They had many ice issues at first, too. It's a learning curve. The UPC will figure it out. A half full Ralph (or a bit more for one Title games) does not generate the crowd enthusiasm of a full arena. I have been to every State at the Ralph, and you could get a seat in virtually any section in the lower bowl for the Title games, even after the puck dropped. And, to me, the atmosphere at the Ralph for a State Title game leaves a lot to be desired. The building rocks when it's full, it's never full for HS hockey.

So, a full UPC might have a better atmosphere for the players and fans than the current venue, believe it or not. We'll never know till we give it a try. We don't need to be married to the Ralph. I don't get why having the Tournament in Fargo "...makes no sense...". In fact, when the Sioux are in GF, it makes very good sense, to me. We need to be forward thinking. Doing something a certain way because we've always done it that way is not very good thinking. Neither is changing just for the sake of change. But sometimes change can be a good thing.


Well I take it you must have missed one because once RR PLayved GFC in a title game, they had to open up the top. I htink attendance for that game was around 6600. ANother time when they could have opend up the top was a couple eyars ago (not alst year) when RR played GPR


SO ur telling me, during a title game between gfc and gfrr there is a seat open in there student section or a seat open in gpr student section? Highly doubt that unless its a first round guarenteed win in which most times it is. End Rant!


Student sections are always full. I am not speaking of student sections. I'm not a student. I'm speaking of others. And just because they opened the top, doesn't mean the bottom was full, quite the contrary. It might have been had they left the top closed, but they figured GFC/RR would require more seats, so they opened it up. This, in turn, opened some seats below, as some people like to be not so close, I suppose, or else figured the top would be less crowded. As you state, at the largest event we know of for HS hockey in ND, there was 6,600 in an 11,600+ stadium. Not exactly filling the house, is it? So, it's quite possible to use the UPC then, from a seating perspective.


I totally agree with you about the enviornment situation but where would the extra 1600*7 bucks a person fit? Thats some moeny that the ndhsaa could have made. BUt that was only a gfc-gfrr game. Lets face it, Grand Forks is the center of hockey and always be. The average joe in Grand Forks would go to a High school hockey game than a average joe in fargo would definatly go to a basketball game. Also, The bison basketball team would likely take some fans away like this year how they are doing. I hope, in fact I no the EDC will be un the up center next year and years to come. But state sportsdoc, will be in grand forks and the ndhsaa reps from grand forks (athletic directors and the peopel who put it on) wont let it leave grand forks.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby gfhockey » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:57 pm

An idea just popped in to my head while i was writing that last post

Boys edc- Fargo (week before state)
Girls state- Fargo (upcenter) the next week
Boys state- Grand Forks

THis is a way better fit but will it happen, highly doubt.. The ndhsaa is to naive and think that all the boys hockey fans will go to the girls game. But that wasnt the factor last year. Maybe some of the students will follow therer girls team but no average jo will go to a girls hockey game.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby HockeyHigh » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:37 pm

gfhockey wrote:Well I take it you must have missed one because once RR PLayved GFC in a title game, they had to open up the top. I htink attendance for that game was around 6600.


Actually the attendance for this game was 5,614. (http://www.ushsho.com/sttinf02.htm) That's 614 more than the UP Center can hold at maximum seated capacity. This doesn't include the student section or standing room as far as I know, so max capacity would likely be around 5,500 if not more. Also, this is if attendance met the highest attendance rating North Dakota has ever received, and I don't see that happening often enough to where it would become a problem.

ANother time when they could have opend up the top was a couple eyars ago (not alst year) when RR played GPR


SO ur telling me, during a title game between gfc and gfrr there is a seat open in there student section or a seat open in gpr student section? Highly doubt that unless its a first round guarenteed win in which most times it is. End Rant!


Student sections are generally pretty large when the game is mostly intercity schools (GPR and GFRR are very close, which led to ease of getting there, and the fact that GPR fans are a rare breed, and would do anything to get there). However, schools like South and Bismarck have never had that huge following that GPR has, and you often don't expect a lot out of their students to get there unless it's a 15 minute ride. If Grand Forks has such a draw to their hockey, they'd make the trip without a peep. Championship games involving Fargo teams generally produce a low attendance (around 2,500 to 3,000), and the max in a North Dakota state game is generally about 4,500. This would be perfect for ND State hockey. We simply don't have the dedicated fans that Minnesota has. Of course I don't have the attendance record for every single year, and I may be looking at the wrong game, so I'd be glad to be proven wrong, but I don't think I am.

If you're shooting for the "average joe" I guarantee you that Fargo would produce a lot more of them, simply because they are a much much larger city, and also have Moorhead across the river, who I doubt would object to adding more hockey to see. The Force are still generating an attendance that averages more than the State Title game of NDHS hockey. If you're arguing attendance issues or capacity issues, Fargo can handle them. At some point intrinsic value will be outweighed by sad reality.

Hockey10 wrote:Having state in fargo makes no sense. It has been in GF for so long it would make no sense to change it now.

Wow, now that's a conservative opinion to the point of no return.

During the championchip game the lower bowl is completely full and 1 year they had to open the upper levels because of so many people. The UPC does not have the sort of room like the ralph does and the UPC is way to hot and teh ice gets soft and slow. And if you try to get more people in the arena it will get even warmer in there and the ice would be terrible. The ralph knows how to keep their ice in good condition.

The UP Center is working on the ice conditions and will have it fixed, trust me. They're hosting the U18 World Championship game for God's sake, I think the High Schoolers can handle it. To address the attendance if I haven't done so enough already, the lower bowl is rarely if ever filled in the Ralph, and I don't foresee it being so this year either. The UP Center would be near capacity, if not at least filling most of the regular seating (excluding student section/boxes if they all went to seats). It'd fit perfectly.

I'll simply quote this for reinforcement, because I fully agree:

central hockey fan wrote:I can't believe I'm going to say this but if the UPC gets their ice situation figured out and the parking lot isn't just a dark field, I think it would be fun to have the state tourney there. And here is why:

1. There are more things to do in Fargo, more motels, places to eat etc.
2. A full house would be fun. I used to go to section 8 championship games in Warroad, EGF etc. and that was the most fun to sit in a packed house.
3. Its more convenient for most of the state (sorry Grafton)
4. The Ralph is huge.....even at some Sioux games it can be hard to get the crowd into it
5. Maybe that would spur on other cities in ND to build nicer rinks, then they can get the state tourney

I'm from GF and this may be shooting myself in the foot but I guess if it makes sense, it just does.


The fact is that North Dakota doesn't have the hockey following that larger states have (like Minnesota), and we need to grow it. The best way to do that is making state appear valued, as Minnesota does. Minnesota even sells tickets all year to the state tournament because they don't have the capacity to fit 18,000+ fans in their arena for a high school event. The UP Center has provided a way to make the tournament seem valued, rather than the lacking of spirit, empty, but beautiful arena that the Ralph is on championship night. A dose of reality about our high school hockey would bring some light on the rink situation.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby hockeymaster » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:38 pm

very true, simple as it is, girls hockey is far different from boys hockey, drawing a much different crowd. i think gf is a great place fore edc specially with the purpur wich is a great rink wit a great atmosphere but i do think the UP center is a good place to host state, possibly. i guess we'll have to see how it goes, more to do in fargo for the fans and possibly players, but grand forks atmosphere during the games quite possibly may be un matchable. a rink that is too large is just as much a adrenaline crusher as is a rink that is too small... just my thoughts on all of that.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby nothinghappend » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:40 pm

why would anyone want to take the pleasure away from kids playing in the ralph? its the best in the nation and why would anyone want that to change, because its not fair. Well life isnt fair so the people that dont want it in the ralph and cry about it
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby HockeyHigh » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:58 pm

nothinghappend wrote:why would anyone want to take the pleasure away from kids playing in the ralph? its the best in the nation and why would anyone want that to change, because its not fair. Well life isnt fair so the people that dont want it in the ralph and cry about it


The Engelstad arena is not the best arena in the nation, although it is incredibly nice. However, a pretty rink doesn't make up for a tournament atmosphere, just ask any hockey buff from Minnesota. I think the Ralph loses its aesthetic value after a few minutes, and ends up feeling emotionless compared to a packed arena, and the environment is what really matters to the players as well as the fans. It's like comparing living in a luxurious mansion with a friend and living in a huge home with a bunch of friends (the Ralph to the UP Center).

Which would you rather be in? (Rest of the rink is empty seats and a section of parents outside of this picture)
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or
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When you look into the stands and see more empty seats then there are people, I find it demoralizing. A packed house with fans everywhere is a far better environment, and I don't see how "but it's bigger and prettier" voids that.
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby hockeymaster » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:03 pm

i agree 100% theres nothing worse then looking in the stands and seeing half an areana filled, the UP seems to be the best almost in the nation for a state tourney, great atmosphere. new arena, and just an all around get feeling. im definantly saying the UP is the place for state. GF for edc though..
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby nothinghappend » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:06 pm

you must be from fargo. if you went to the state championship game last year you would have seen a full lower bowl. the up centers not even finished yet and there locker rooms have enough room in them to have a peewee team fill them up. and how can you compare a ushl hockey game to a random high school game somewhere from where ever that picture is from. and to really say the ralph isnt the best arena in the state you must have a serious problem
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Re: State Tournament a Joke

Postby hockeymaster » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:08 pm

ive toured the facility, trust me there is no problem with locker room space, the UP is a better arena to host this event. fair and square.
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