2 halves instead of 4 quarters

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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby Indy5 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:26 pm

winner-within wrote:
Indy5 wrote:
winner-within wrote:Just give one extra timeout each half than what they have now and you can take your break when you need it.

Well in basketball your timeouts are for the whole game, not a half-to-half basis, so who's to say the coach takes that timeout in the first half?


Each team gets one more if there is OT, which there were alot of this season, which is adding 5 Mins to the end of a Battle, which is way more exhasting than 2 mins on the end of each half, which would help detour Overtimes.

How would switching to halves deter overtimes?
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby winner-within » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:51 pm

Indy5 wrote:
winner-within wrote:
Indy5 wrote:
winner-within wrote:Just give one extra timeout each half than what they have now and you can take your break when you need it.

Well in basketball your timeouts are for the whole game, not a half-to-half basis, so who's to say the coach takes that timeout in the first half?


Each team gets one more if there is OT, which there were alot of this season, which is adding 5 Mins to the end of a Battle, which is way more exhasting than 2 mins on the end of each half, which would help detour Overtimes.

How would switching to halves deter overtimes?



Along with the Clock that we already have, it will be to Hard to continue on in the game and have it end in tie...there would be more bonuses and more double bonuses...just a reality
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby Indy5 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:04 pm

winner-within wrote:
Indy5 wrote:
winner-within wrote:
Indy5 wrote:
winner-within wrote:Just give one extra timeout each half than what they have now and you can take your break when you need it.

Well in basketball your timeouts are for the whole game, not a half-to-half basis, so who's to say the coach takes that timeout in the first half?


Each team gets one more if there is OT, which there were alot of this season, which is adding 5 Mins to the end of a Battle, which is way more exhasting than 2 mins on the end of each half, which would help detour Overtimes.

How would switching to halves deter overtimes?



Along with the Clock that we already have, it will be to Hard to continue on in the game and have it end in tie...there would be more bonuses and more double bonuses...just a reality

I really don't think adding a shot clock or potentially adding 4 minutes to the game would have any effect on the amount of OT's you'd see.
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby winner-within » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:06 pm

You'll see just with the clock alone......I'm still waiting for the Players who will be playing the next 1,2,3,4,5 years to tell me they wouldn't want to have 4 more mins of playing time.....We already know what the Members on here who have came and went want. We can call them preservers, we will preserve this Vintage class B ball as we know it, it can be the Undefeated #1 team in the state that wins it every year, then we can argue they were the best of the Decade, How cant they be? then when someone sneaks in and Hustles harder and upsets them we can have a thousand excuses....and say they still should have won.
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby Flip » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:26 pm

Indy5 wrote:Well in basketball your timeouts are for the whole game, not a half-to-half basis, so who's to say the coach takes that timeout in the first half?

Simple, if they don't use it in the first half they lose it. The NCAA had or still has this rule, but I think it is a 30 second TO.
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby classB4ever » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:31 am

winner-within wrote:You'll see just with the clock alone......I'm still waiting for the Players who will be playing the next 1,2,3,4,5 years to tell me they wouldn't want to have 4 more mins of playing time.....We already know what the Members on here who have came and went want. We can call them preservers, we will preserve this Vintage class B ball as we know it, it can be the Undefeated #1 team in the state that wins it every year, then we can argue they were the best of the Decade, How cant they be? then when someone sneaks in and Hustles harder and upsets them we can have a thousand excuses....and say they still should have won.

I think it is safe to say at first glance, players would want 4 extra minutes. Is it going to be quality minutes of basketball? No. Not with the current landscape in class b.
My problem with the idea of going halves is, IMO, injuries are going to increase. 2 reasons:
1. In close games, players are going to become exhausted due to lack of depth. They will not be getting the breaks they need to keep fresh. This is going to increase injuries.
2. In blowout games, younger, smaller players who don't have the physical stature, will be subbing against older players who are still trying to get back into the game. The older kids will be frustrated that they are behind in the first place and more injuries will occur.
The better athletes will be able to condition themselves over time. But you can't train a Percheron to compete with a Thoroughbred in a 10 furlong race.
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby NDplayin » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:55 pm

I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier, but there is another pretty weighty reason that halves would be damaging at the B level considering the depth.

When you play quarters, each individual player is allowed to play 6 quarters a night. When you play halves, each individual player is allowed to play 3 halves a night. The difference isn't the amount of playing time, but the way that playing time can be spread out.

The 7th man on most all Class B teams plays a lot of the JV team. Most schools need that 7th man for more than half the game (usually either 3 or 4 quarters). This still allows him to play at points in both halves of the varsity game, which is necessary to give your starters breathers or manage foul problems. The 8th man on most Class B teams only sees first half action if one or two players are in foul trouble, but coaches still need that 8th man available both halves of the game for exactly that reason. Now, instead of that 8th man getting to play 4 full quarters on the JV and having the 2nd and 4th quarter of the varisty game available for his reserve role, he can only play in one half of the JV game so that he has both varsity halves available, althought he would be lucky to get more than a minute or two a half. In essence, in order to play halves, either need to have 2 different 7th men and 2 different 8th men, or you have to rob your 7th and 8th men of the valuable JV minutes that they need to develop as players.

The next side effect would be the reduction from 3 games to 2. I think its best for any B school that possibly can to try to play 3 games a night in order to develop more players... give all players more playing time. The dominoe effect of only being able to spread a player out 3 halves instead of 6 quarters is going to change what is required to play 3 games. With good quarter management, a Class B school can field three teams with 17 or 18 players. To play 3 games with halves, schools would need closer to 25 players.

Between the complications of spreading out 3 halves instead of 6 quarters, and the likely hood of only playing 2 games instead of 3, halves is bad news for Class B schools with Class B depth. While halves may add minutes to the game, it would actually result in reduced playing time for every player in the program except perhaps the top 6.
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby winner-within » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:40 pm

Thats reading into it way to far, You can still easily have 3 games a night, if you don't have numbers your not having 3 games any ways unless you go 7th and 8th grade...Where I get confused the most with your post's is when you are constantly saying, Class B has no depth to work with but your examples are giving the crutch to the Class b schools with depth.
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby NDplayin » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:09 pm

I don't think there is such a thing as reading too far into it as long as the reasons are legitimate, which they are. Class B basketball is a great game, and I want to see the changes that come to it be for the better, not for the worse. That's why I'm ok with the shot clock change, but also want to see a mercy rule change. That's why I would be opposed to the change of going to halves. Just because it is a change, doesn't mean it would be a positive change.

I didn't say Class B is completely void of depth, that is a misunderstanding. I said that Class B doesnt have the level of depth that Class A has. Class A has the necessary depth to properly play halves, Class B doesn't. I don't want to see a rule change that would lower the level of play. Do Class B schools have 4 more players that they could play in varsity games that aren't playing right now? They have bodies they could put on the floor, that doesnt mean those bodies are capable of playing varsity basketball at the same level it is played now. Therefore, the level of play would go down.

And you're right, either you have enough to play three games or you don't. But it takes a larger number to play 3 games of halves than it does 3 games of quarters. Just because you play in both halves doesnt mean you play the full half, and yet you can only play in one half of the next game. That means teams need a different player to play the other half. When playing quarters, you can play in both halfs of both games (3 quarters each game works very well, and provides help for foul trouble in both halves).

Its a math equation. To be able to manage foul problems and keeping players fresh, it takes more players to field 3 teams for halves than it does to field 3 teams for quarters.
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby winner-within » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:56 pm

Just go halves for varsity, and keep in mind you need to compensate for 120 seconds more in each half.
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby Indy5 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:49 pm

winner-within wrote:Just go halves for varsity, and keep in mind you need to compensate for 120 seconds more in each half.

That screws up the entire system then of playing x amount of quarters/halves per night. Why are you so emphatic about halves?
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby heimer » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:52 pm

Who gives a rats about the NFHS? The NDHSAA should do whats best for ND, and not let some national federation dictate how the game should work here.

I say we implement 18-minute halves and the shot clock for B, and implement international rules for A, with a trapezoidal lane, four 10-minute quarters, the resetting penalty after five fouls, and a 24 second shot clock.

If you can't keep up, co-op, shut down, or "knut" up and get better. I seem to have heard that somewhere in the past.
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby Flip » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:26 pm

NDplayin wrote:The next side effect would be the reduction from 3 games to 2. I think its best for any B school that possibly can to try to play 3 games a night in order to develop more players... give all players more playing time. The dominoe effect of only being able to spread a player out 3 halves instead of 6 quarters is going to change what is required to play 3 games. With good quarter management, a Class B school can field three teams with 17 or 18 players. To play 3 games with halves, schools would need closer to 25 players.

Last season I think we played a C team, JV, and varsity game 5 times and we didn't have close to 25 kids. I'm thinking mabye 20. We played halves too.
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby winner-within » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:35 pm

heimer wrote:Who gives a rats about the NFHS? The NDHSAA should do whats best for ND, and not let some national federation dictate how the game should work here.

I say we implement 18-minute halves and the shot clock for B, and implement international rules for A, with a trapezoidal lane, four 10-minute quarters, the resetting penalty after five fouls, and a 24 second shot clock.

If you can't keep up, co-op, shut down, or "knut" up and get better. I seem to have heard that somewhere in the past.



Can you say Closure :lol:
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby 1stTrack » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:52 pm

heimer wrote:Who gives a rats about the NFHS? The NDHSAA should do whats best for ND, and not let some national federation dictate how the game should work here.

I say we implement 18-minute halves and the shot clock for B, and implement international rules for A, with a trapezoidal lane, four 10-minute quarters, the resetting penalty after five fouls, and a 24 second shot clock.

If you can't keep up, co-op, shut down, or "knut" up and get better. I seem to have heard that somewhere in the past.


This is terrible :roll:

Making it into halves is more work than it is worth.. the majority of the class b schools are too small and I am willing to bet that those schools are not going to co-op or shut down because of it. The cons out weigh the pros for halves. They could get away with moving class A to halves if they wanted
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:53 pm

1stTrack wrote:
heimer wrote:Who gives a rats about the NFHS? The NDHSAA should do whats best for ND, and not let some national federation dictate how the game should work here.

I say we implement 18-minute halves and the shot clock for B, and implement international rules for A, with a trapezoidal lane, four 10-minute quarters, the resetting penalty after five fouls, and a 24 second shot clock.

If you can't keep up, co-op, shut down, or "knut" up and get better. I seem to have heard that somewhere in the past.


This is terrible :roll:

Making it into halves is more work than it is worth.. the majority of the class b schools are too small and I am willing to bet that those schools are not going to co-op or shut down because of it. The cons out weigh the pros for halves. They could get away with moving class A to halves if they wanted


They already play halves.
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby winner-within » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:57 pm

7th and 8th 14 mins.....C and JV 16 mins ...... Varsity 18 mins.....You tell yourself and the Coaches tell themselves and their players we are going straight to Halftime Boys and Girls put your self in self containment mode the only pit stops we are getting is if we call a TO....we have an extra 30 second one if we need it...doesn't carry over to second half....and you play ball! You don't have a panic attack, there will be dead balls and free throws but the game will flow.
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby NDplayin » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:59 am

You don't get an extra time out that you have to use before half. That is pure myth and speculation. The only way I can think of that you came up with that is by misunderstanding the way the time out rules are modified when a game is televised.

You think the game will "flow" just because you erase a quarter break? No, the flow is going to stop because either A) the legs and lungs of the students are exhausted, which forces mistakes toward the end of the half, or B) coaches are subbing the tired players out and replacing them with players who cannot play at the same high level we consider varsity basketball.

Halves is a fine rule adjustment when it fits the level. It doesn't fit the Class B level.
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby heimer » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:35 am

High level? Have you seen a game at the B level lately? There are about 15 teams, maybe 20, that have 5 players on the floor that play the game at a high level. I could care less if B goes to halves, but don't try to convince use of the "high level" of B varsity basketball. On the majority of teams, there are only three or four starters that play at a high level.
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby Flip » Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:37 am

NDplayin wrote:You don't get an extra time out that you have to use before half. That is pure myth and speculation. The only way I can think of that you came up with that is by misunderstanding the way the time out rules are modified when a game is televised.


From: http://www.livestrong.com/article/14558 ... asketball/
NCAA teams use timeouts differently depending on whether their game is televised. A non-televised game is allowed six timeouts per game; four are 75 seconds and two are 30 seconds each. Games that are broadcast revert to a timeout schedule more consistent with NBA or FIBA play, and consist of one 1-minute timeout and four 30-second timeouts per game. All but one of the timeouts that are not used in the first half of an NCAA basketball game can be carried over to the second half. Timeouts in the NBA, WNBA and FIBA do not carry over.
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby winner-within » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:31 am

NDplayin wrote:You don't get an extra time out that you have to use before half. That is pure myth and speculation. The only way I can think of that you came up with that is by misunderstanding the way the time out rules are modified when a game is televised.

You think the game will "flow" just because you erase a quarter break? No, the flow is going to stop because either A) the legs and lungs of the students are exhausted, which forces mistakes toward the end of the half, or B) coaches are subbing the tired players out and replacing them with players who cannot play at the same high level we consider varsity basketball.

Halves is a fine rule adjustment when it fits the level. It doesn't fit the Class B level.


I didnt say you did, I said we should if we go this route in the future, Like you said there should be a mercy rule...Kinda, one extreme to the next really....

Whats better for Basketball and the progress of young athletes...Your myth and speculation or mine???
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby NDplayin » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:33 am

What do a mercy rule and halves have to do with each other?
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby winner-within » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:03 am

NDplayin wrote:What do a mercy rule and halves have to do with each other?


Read your post then mine again
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby 1stTrack » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:27 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
1stTrack wrote:
heimer wrote:Who gives a rats about the NFHS? The NDHSAA should do whats best for ND, and not let some national federation dictate how the game should work here.

I say we implement 18-minute halves and the shot clock for B, and implement international rules for A, with a trapezoidal lane, four 10-minute quarters, the resetting penalty after five fouls, and a 24 second shot clock.

If you can't keep up, co-op, shut down, or "knut" up and get better. I seem to have heard that somewhere in the past.


This is terrible :roll:

Making it into halves is more work than it is worth.. the majority of the class b schools are too small and I am willing to bet that those schools are not going to co-op or shut down because of it. The cons out weigh the pros for halves. They could get away with moving class A to halves if they wanted


They already play halves.


I guess they are getting away with it then haha :lol: my bad
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Re: 2 halves instead of 4 quarters

Postby Mighty-Mouse » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:43 am

Watching both quarters and halves, IMO I like halves, it seems to let the teams get into more of a flow which IMO is more fun to watch.
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