Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

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Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby ClassBEast » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:28 am

ND high school athletics: Up in the air, 3-class proposal for basketball, volleyball will get yet another look
By: Heath Hotzler, INFORUM

Another plan to create three classes for high school basketball and volleyball in North Dakota is on its way.

This time, it’s a new twist on an old favorite.

Representatives from a group of 13 school districts from all parts of the state are scheduled to unveil a revamped version of a previously floated 3-class plan to the North Dakota High School Activities Association board Tuesday in Valley City.

“We feel we’ve created something here, and that we’ve developed a tournament format that we believe is fantastic,” Valley City Public Schools Superintendant Dean Koppelman said. “We think we’ve created something that will bring a renewed excitement for our kids and the people across our state.”

The bulk of the new plan – which would begin on a two-year experimental basis in 2011-12 – is a carbon copy of the “40/80” idea that was created a couple years ago, Koppelman said.

The plan calls for the current Class A set up to stay the same as a re-named Class AA. Class AA would consist of schools with enrollments of 400 or more students.

The next 40 schools with the highest enrollment would make up Class A and the rest – approximately 80 schools – would be Class B.

Edgeley superintendant Rick Diegel said the postseason setup is where this plans sets itself apart.

The basketball and volleyball state tournament would combine teams from Class A and Class B. Each class would advance four teams to state, ensuring four schools with smaller enrollments would have a chance at a championship.

Class A would have four region tournaments.

Class B would hold eight district tournaments en route to four region tournaments.

At state, Class A and Class B would each play two games in their own brackets.

The final day of the state tournament would cross the brackets to pit teams from Class A against teams from Class B for the title, 3rd, 5th and 7th place.

“We would have that David versus Goliath matchup for each game on the last day of the state tournament,” Diegel said. “That’s always a neat situation when you have a small school playing a larger school.”

The Class A and B volleyball tournament would be played at the same time and at the same location as the Class AA tournament.

The basketball tournament would be played in similar locations as the current Class B tournament, Koppelman said.

This year’s state Class B boys basketball tournament was played in Minot. The Class B girls tourney was played in Bismarck.

The plan also calls for early season basketball and volleyball tournaments for each region, pitting the top ranking teams against one another to start the year.

Representatives from Edgeley, Valley City, Fargo, Grafton, Enderlin, Beulah, Barnes County North, Griggs County Central, Jamestown, Dayton, Richland, Wyndmere and Lewis & Clark-Berthold met several times during the year to create the plan.

NDHSAA Executive Secretary Sherm Sylling also provided input, Koppelman said.

Fargo Public Schools Activities Director Ed Lockwood said the new plan could help create more fan-friendly local rivalries.

“This would make schools playing between divisions easier,” said Lockwood, who provided input on the plan. “With three divisions, some (current) Class A schools might find it easier to play a little larger school in the middle. If that mindset would shift, you could see it in volleyball, football and basketball.”

The group that organized the new 3-class proposal forwarded the plan to every NDHSAA member school before the end of the school year. Koppelman said he has received only positive feedback.

Lockwood, Koppelman and Diegel each said they don’t think the NDHSAA board will take action on Tuesday.

But any changes would have to be adopted soon to allow schools time for scheduling.

A 3-class plan that was orchestrated by the NDHSAA was defeated by the NDHSAA board 7-3 in April 2009. That proposal called for 16 schools in Class AA (enrollment of 400 or more), 32 schools in Class A and the rest in Class B. The plan had three separate state tournaments.

A survey of NDHSAA members earlier in 2009 showed 87 school districts opposed and 76 in favor of the NDHSAA’s 3-class plan.

In 2008, a straw poll of members showed 78 against and 55 in favor of moving to three classes for basketball and volleyball.

A 3-class plan was also defeated by NDHSAA members 120-49 in 2005.

“We just feel the time has come to really take a hard look at change,” Koppelman said. “I think this has a chance.”

THE 3-CLASS PROPOSAL

Based on current enrollment figures, this is how the schools would be

divided under a 3-class proposal that will be discussed at Tuesday’s

North Dakota High School Activities Association meeting


CLASS AA

EAST
Devils Lake, Fargo Davies, Fargo North, Fargo Shanley, Fargo South, Grand Forks Central, Grand Forks Red River, Wahpeton, West Fargo

WEST
Bismarck, Bismarck Century, Bismarck St. Mary’s, Dickinson, Jamestown, Mandan, Minot, Turtle Mountain-Belcourt, Williston


CLASS A
REGION 1
Section 1: Central Cass, Kindred, Lisbon, Oakes, Valley City.
Section 2: Fargo Oak Grove, Finley-Sharon-Hope-Page, Hillsboro, Mayville-Portland, Northern Cass

REGION 2
Section 3: Carrington, Four Winds, Hatton-Northwood, Larimore, Midway-Minto
Section 4: Cavalier, Fordville-Lankin-Park River, Grafton, Langdon, North Border

REGION 3
Section 5: Fort Yates, Kidder County, Linton, Shiloh Christian, South Border
Section 6: Bowman County, Dickinson Trinity, Heart River, Killdeer, Watford City

REGION 4
Section 7: Beulah, Des Lacs-Burlington, Hazen, New Town, Stanley
Section 8: Bishop Ryan, Bottineau, Dunseith, Rugby, Surrey

(NOTE: In volleyball, Garrison/Max moves to Section 7, North Shore-Berthold moves to Section 8, Fordville-Lankin-Park River moves to Section 3, Four Winds and Midway-Minto not in Class A volleyball)

CLASS B
REGION 1
District 1: Enderlin, Fairmount-Campbell-Tintah, Hankinson, Maple Valley, Milnor, North Sargent, Richland, Sargent Central, Wyndmere-Lidgerwood

District 2: Barnes County North, Central Prairie, Edgeley-Kulm, Ellendale, LaMoure, Litchville-Marion-Montpelier, Pingree-Buchanan-Kensal, Strasburg-Zeeland, Napoleon

REGION 2
District 3: Central Valley, Dakota Prairie, Griggs County, Lakota-Adams-Edmore, Midkota, New Rockford-Sheyenne, Thompson, Valley-Edinburg, Warwick
District 4: Drake-Anamoose, Harvey, Leeds-Maddock, Munich-Starkweather, North Star, Rolla-Rock Lake, Rolette, St. John, Wells County

REGION 3
District 5: Beach, Glen Ullin-Hebron, Flasher, Grant County, Hettinger, Mott-Regent, New England, Richardton-Taylor, Scranton, Solen-Cannonball

District 6: Center-Stanton, Garrison, Mandaree, New Salem, Parshall, Turtle Lake-Mercer, Underwood, Washburn, Wilton-Wing

REGION 4
District 7: Burke County, Divide County, Grenora, Kenmare, Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood, Ray, Tioga, Trenton, Trinity Christian

District 8: Berthold, Glenburn, Lewis & Clark-North Shore, Max, Our Redeemers, Sawyer, Towner-Granville-Upton, Velva, Westhope-Newburg

(NOTE: In girls basketball, White Shield is added to District 6, Powers Lake is added to District 7)
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby scruffy » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:59 am

They just don't get it.................. How many times do they have to be turned down. They should let it rest because in ten years the number of "B" schools will drop big time due to co-ops (the alphabet league will continue to grow) and school closings.
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:18 am

I really don't think school closings and coops are going to go up in the future....within the next couple years I think it will level off and you're also going to see a lot of growth in the state.
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby Hinsa » Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:38 pm

I disagree with Lionsfan and agree with Scruffy. Just an example in my area, Hillsboro and CV are deep in talks for a co-op. I don't see co-ops lessening. I see them continuing as the population shifts in ND.

Lionsfan, you might be right about growth, but it will be the same towns that are holding steady or growing now that will grow, not the small towns that are losing population. The 80 in this plan will become 70 rapidly, then eventually 60, and down the road we'll have a 40-40 plan. We just don't need an extra class.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - this whole thing is driven by Valley City High School. If they would just wait a few years, they'll drop to Class B naturally and all this happy hoo-haw will be over with.
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby winner-within » Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:05 pm

I'm an open minded person and this plan truly takes on that effect....I'm a little fuzzy on schedule's and how they would play out but if things got away from playing the same team 5 times (even twice) in one year I think that would be an asset to the competition side of it. i like the no District tourney thing for Class A.

I think its worth a try although I would look at a solid 1 class plan also....I am a firm believer the current system needs help....I think there is to much complacency....and this would spark programs to gear up and get off their dead horse because they could actually see some light at the end of the tunnel....Lets do something different...bring in the shot clock also....and down the road switch to two 18 minute halves for Varsity and 16 for JV.

LETS DO IT!!!!!! :D
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby Indy5 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:34 pm

winner-within wrote:I'm an open minded person and this plan truly takes on that effect....I'm a little fuzzy on schedule's and how they would play out but if things got away from playing the same team 5 times (even twice) in one year I think that would be an asset to the competition side of it. i like the no District tourney thing for Class A.

I think its worth a try although I would look at a solid 1 class plan also....I am a firm believer the current system needs help....I think there is to much complacency....and this would spark programs to gear up and get off their dead horse because they could actually see some light at the end of the tunnel....Lets do something different...bring in the shot clock also....and down the road switch to two 18 minute halves for Varsity and 16 for JV.

LETS DO IT!!!!!! :D

I like the plan more as a redistricting project. Surprisingly, I agree with winner-within on a lot of his points. I do like the new competition and no district tourneys. I also agree with adding a shot clock and switching to halves.
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby scoobyx2 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:26 pm

There are valid points on both sides, but a change does need to be considered. It may initally seem like a Valley City issue, but Central Cass and Kindred is rapidly growing, and could soon be in the same situation (in that area). Of course, there were smaller schools in the state tournaments, but Class B is getting very predictable every year, and the only real surprises come from transfers at the beginning.
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby winner-within » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:42 pm

scoobyx2 wrote:There are valid points on both sides, but a change does need to be considered. It may initally seem like a Valley City issue, but Central Cass and Kindred is rapidly growing, and could soon be in the same situation (in that area). Of course, there were smaller schools in the state tournaments, but Class B is getting very predictable every year, and the only real surprises come from transfers at the beginning.


The transferring comment is Bogus...this is the USA...you can play wherever you want to...the only reason we are able to watch every student in the state is because its a state of few students....even in Minnesota (let alone Illinois) you would go nuts trying to worry about this kid playing here and that kid playing there.
I agree with the predictable statement but not your reasoning for predictability.....now someone will post there were four upsets at last last year in the regions but predictability still stands because it was a #2 or #3 knocking off #1 still an easy prediction for the 8 teams at state....
this system could actually bring back true surprises come tournament time. Another aspect of this system would be that there is plenty of room for growth to a school or consolidation and if you happen to float close to 400 students your still playing an alike opponent, not like going from today's class b to today's class A....the only gripe I have is Belcourt should be in the new class A...I dont know how many students are over there but they definitely could fit in nicely instead of being with the Big Dogs.
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby ndfan » Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:43 pm

I don't like it at all, I'm sorry but all I think this is doing is watering down the class B state tournament in my opinion. I wanna see the best 8 teams possible, if you don't think the best 8 teams play in the state tournament right now, wait tell this plan comes to action then you really won't be seeing the best 8 in the state in my opinion. If it goes three classes then have three tournaments!
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby scoobyx2 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:24 am

winner-within wrote:
scoobyx2 wrote:There are valid points on both sides, but a change does need to be considered. It may initally seem like a Valley City issue, but Central Cass and Kindred is rapidly growing, and could soon be in the same situation (in that area). Of course, there were smaller schools in the state tournaments, but Class B is getting very predictable every year, and the only real surprises come from transfers at the beginning.


The transferring comment is Bogus...this is the USA...you can play wherever you want to...the only reason we are able to watch every student in the state is because its a state of few students....even in Minnesota (let alone Illinois) you would go nuts trying to worry about this kid playing here and that kid playing there.
I agree with the predictable statement but not your reasoning for predictability.....now someone will post there were four upsets at last last year in the regions but predictability still stands because it was a #2 or #3 knocking off #1 still an easy prediction for the 8 teams at state....
this system could actually bring back true surprises come tournament time. Another aspect of this system would be that there is plenty of room for growth to a school or consolidation and if you happen to float close to 400 students your still playing an alike opponent, not like going from today's class b to today's class A....the only gripe I have is Belcourt should be in the new class A...I dont know how many students are over there but they definitely could fit in nicely instead of being with the Big Dogs.

I don't have a problem with transferring, and don't think I stated otherwise. I completely agree that a family has the right to send their kids to any school they feel is best for kids. Also, I didn't say that this plan wasn't good. I actually stated that a change in our current system needs to be considered.
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby winner-within » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:03 am

scoobyx2 wrote:
winner-within wrote:
scoobyx2 wrote:There are valid points on both sides, but a change does need to be considered. It may initally seem like a Valley City issue, but Central Cass and Kindred is rapidly growing, and could soon be in the same situation (in that area). Of course, there were smaller schools in the state tournaments, but Class B is getting very predictable every year, and the only real surprises come from transfers at the beginning.


The transferring comment is Bogus...this is the USA...you can play wherever you want to...the only reason we are able to watch every student in the state is because its a state of few students....even in Minnesota (let alone Illinois) you would go nuts trying to worry about this kid playing here and that kid playing there.
I agree with the predictable statement but not your reasoning for predictability.....now someone will post there were four upsets at last last year in the regions but predictability still stands because it was a #2 or #3 knocking off #1 still an easy prediction for the 8 teams at state....
this system could actually bring back true surprises come tournament time. Another aspect of this system would be that there is plenty of room for growth to a school or consolidation and if you happen to float close to 400 students your still playing an alike opponent, not like going from today's class b to today's class A....the only gripe I have is Belcourt should be in the new class A...I dont know how many students are over there but they definitely could fit in nicely instead of being with the Big Dogs.

I don't have a problem with transferring, and don't think I stated otherwise. I completely agree that a family has the right to send their kids to any school they feel is best for kids. Also, I didn't say that this plan wasn't good. I actually stated that a change in our current system needs to be considered.


well I Honestly believe that this wouldn't be the most prevalent change...but I think its a step in the direction I would like to see happen in ND and that is speed up consolidations and improve quality of B Ball across the board when it comes to Programs at each school...The shot clock rule will help in the over coaching dept. I mean whats wrong with a more run style of ball??? I like the Idea alot!!
ND is slowly slipping away from being a B Ball state.....with Hockey leading the way as an alternative...this is all fine and dandy but Basket Ball will always be King and its time it is revamped a bit and lets see the outcome in 5 years down the road.
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:09 am

I don't like this proposal but I will agree a change should be made sometime soon.
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby classB4ever » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:32 pm

I believe it has merit. Not sure if I like having 2 separate brackets at the state tournament and then crossing brackets on the last night. I believe this would be the only reason people might say it is "watering down" the competition. Once at state, all teams should be on equal ground. However, the David vs. Goliath "effect" might make it interesting and would be willing to watch it one or two years and see how it plays out. The addition of the shot clock is fine. To be honest, watched a lot of games last year with it implemented and never saw one shot clock violation called.
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby ClassBEast » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:45 am

ND 3-class proposal clears a hurdle
By: Heath Hotzler, INFORUM

VALLEY CITY, N.D. – The fate of a new 3-class proposal for basketball and volleyball will soon be in the hands of North Dakota High School Activities Association members.

The NDHSAA Board of Directors voted 8-2 Tuesday to allow the plan on the agenda for a binding vote in October at the organization’s general assembly meeting in Bismarck.

“Any change that happens is going to have to be membership driven,” Board member Phil Eastgate of Beulah said to Edgeley Superintendant Rick Diegel, one of the authors of the proposal. “I would say that you keep the boat upright. That’s your group’s job. And let it be membership driven to get something done.”

The Board came under fire when it floated its own 3-class proposal in January 2009. That plan was defeated by the Board 7-3 after a survey of members showed opposition to a 3-class system held an 87-76 majority.

The Board was also criticized in 2008 when it changed the enrollment cutoff for Class A from 325 to 400, which allowed Valley City to drop to Class B.

Edgeley and LaMoure later co-sponsored an amendment to the NDHSAA bylaws to move the cutoff back to 325.

NDHSAA members voted 70-34 to move the enrollment cutoff back and thrust Valley City, with an enrollment of about 370, back into Class A.

“We took the process and took the step forward, wanting to move Valley City to ‘B.’ Why did you guys go a long way to see that?” Board member Jack Maus of Grafton said to Diegel. “Now it looks like you are trying to sneak Valley City into this one. To me, we already did that.

“You are the ones that led it back to 325. I have a real tough time taking two steps forward and then going back a step. … When you try to do something for the best and get shot down, the wounds are still pretty deep.”

Board president and Fargo Davies Principal Jeff Schatz said the NDHSAA was subjected to personal attacks from North Dakota high school superintendents for its proposal.

“There was a plan to move Valley City to Class B. There was a 3-class plan. It was voted on,” Schatz said. “Now all the sudden we want to go back? You want to be careful on that move. It wasn’t until we did that move that everyone came out of the watershed. … I’ve always believed a 3-class plan should be (passed). But I would never go through that process again from what I experienced in the process.”

A collaborative effort of 13 school districts from all parts of the state, the plan would leave current Class A the same – only to be re-named Class 2A.

The next 40 schools with the highest enrollment would make up Class A and the rest – approximately 80 schools – would be Class B.

Basketball and volleyball state tournaments would combine teams from Class A and Class B. Each class would advance four teams to state, ensuring four schools with smaller enrollments would have a chance at a championship.

Class A would have four region tournaments. Class B would hold eight district tournaments en route to four region tournaments.

Class A and Class B teams would play in separate brackets until the final day of the tournament to create a matchup between a larger school and a smaller school.

The plan was created by representatives from Edgeley, Valley City, Fargo, Grafton, Enderlin, Beulah, Barnes County North, Griggs County Central, Jamestown, Dayton, Richland, Wyndmere and Lewis & Clark-Berthold.

In 2008, a straw poll of NDHSAA members showed 78 against and 55 in favor of a 3-class system for basketball and volleyball.

A 3-class plan was also defeated 120-49 in 2005.

Valley City Public Schools Superintendent Dean Koppelman said the proposal could be tweaked for the October vote after getting input from coaches and administrators.

If the plan is defeated, Koppelman said it is possible the group would go back to the drawing board to come up with a new 3-class plan.

“It’s possible. We haven’t taken it that far in our discussions,” he said. “I’m sure we would want to sit back, evaluate and have a discussion about it.”
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby Bisonguy06 » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:27 pm

The NDHSAA membership has already rejected a 40/80 plan and has rejected moving the enrollment cutoff from 325 to 400 in separate decisions.

Put both ideas together and all the sudden this is a brilliant new plan? Don't buy it.

And once again, this is clearly a bailout plan for Valley City and it's not about what's best for the majority of ND high school athletes. Under this plan, Valley City becomes the largest school in its class by nearly 100 students, and two schools that are actually smaller than Valley City (St. Mary's and Shanley) get bumped up to AA.

If it's not all about Valley City, would you accept the 40/80 plan with an enrollment cutoff of 325? All we'd have to do is bump VCHS to AA and bump the one largest B school to A... it would be quite easy, and the member schools just said by a 70-34 vote that the line belongs at 325. Why isn't THIS the new plan? Are the authors of this plan even listening to the rest of the state?
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby Mandan » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:00 pm

I don't think the previous 80/40 plan ever got to a vote. They put out a three class plan instead, and that got voted down. The previous 80/40 plan that was similar to this one has never been voted on, as far as I remember.
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby ndfan » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:09 pm

This is just what I think the tournament would of looked like if they had the 3 class system this past year.
2010 Stat B tournament teams
Oak Grove
Cavalier
Kidder County
Carrington
Shiloh
Berthold
Mandaree
Beulah

2010 AB State tournament
A teams
Oak Grove
Carrington
Linton
Beulah
B Teams
LaMoure
North Star
Mandaree
Berthold
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby ClassBEast » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:19 am

Published September 15 2010
Latest proposal for ND basketball, volleyball blends 3 classes with 2 classes
By: Heath Hotzler, INFORUM

VALLEY CITY, N.D. – The latest three-class proposal for North Dakota prep basketball and volleyball may not be a three-class proposal after all.

Edgeley Superintendent Rick Diegel unveiled the final version of a plan Tuesday that would have three divisions during the regular season, but would crown only two state champions at the North Dakota High School Activities Association Board meeting.

The new proposal will be voted on by NDHSAA member schools on Oct. 21 in Bismarck.

“I think our plan is complete,” Diegel said. “I think it is what it is and we will see how it goes in October.”

The plan has undergone an overhaul since it was first introduced to the NDHSAA in June. The nuts and bolts remain the same.

The current Class A would remain unchanged as a newly named Class 2A division.

Class A is the next largest 40 schools, and the approximately 75 schools remaining would be Class B.

However, a group of representatives from several school districts from all parts of the state that had input on the plan changed its mind on the format for the state tournament.

The original plan had Class A and B teams playing in separate state tournament brackets until the final day of the tournament to create a matchup between a larger school and a smaller school.

It was billed as “David vs. Goliath” matchups.

Championships would have been awarded to both the Class A and Class B (tournament semifinal) winners, and to the winner of a game between the two champions on the final day of the tourney.

But Diegel said negative feedback forced the group to scrap the idea.

Now, the plan calls for the four Class A qualifiers and four Class B qualifiers to be randomly seeded to begin the state tournament.

Only one champion will be crowned from the tournament field.

“That was probably the main issue that we talked about when we reconvened a month ago,” Diegel said. “We went around and voted, and it was determined to go with just a straight eight team tournament and randomly seed.”

Diegel said he is unsure if the new proposal can now be considered a three-class plan.

“It matters how you define it,” he said. “There are three different classes in districts and there are three different classes in regions. But you are only handing out two trophies. I don’t know what defines three-class or two-class.”

The other major issue Diegel addressed is the weighting system the plan uses for private schools.

Under the weighting criteria of the plan, Shiloh Christian in Bismarck would be moved up to Class A, and Fargo Shanley and Bismarck St. Mary’s would be moved to Class 2A.

The plan uses an average of similar weighting systems in several other states, Diegel said.

Diegel also expressed concern over the timeline for implementing the new plan.

If approved by member schools, the plan would take effect in 2011-12. Diegel said that would likely leave administrators scrambling to schedule games under the new system.

Representatives from Edgeley, Valley City, Fargo, Enderlin, Beulah, Barnes County North, Griggs County Central, Jamestown, Drayton, Richland and Lewis and Clark had input on the plan.

A survey last year of NDHSAA members showed opposition to a three-class system held an 87-76 majority. An NDHSAA board initiated three-class proposal was defeated 7-3 later that year.

In 2008, a straw poll of NDHSAA members showed 78 against and 55 in favor of a three-class plan. A three-class plan was also defeated 120-49 in 2005.

Valley City Superintendent Dean Koppelman, who helped create and fine tune the proposal, said he is eager to take this plan before member schools.

“Let’s see where this goes now after all the work that’s put in, after all the input we’ve gathered,” he said. “I think this has as good a chance as anything that’s come to the state level to pass – in my opinion. The interest is out there.”
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby Hinsa » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:42 am

Oh man, I'm so tired of these freakin' proposals. It just like the government - if at first you don't succeed, you keep trying until people get so tired of it that they will vote yes.

Why, why, why can't Valley City High School understand that in a few years they drop below the "B" cutoff line and then this whole freakin' issue will be dead!!!
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby scc » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:03 am

Dropping the district tournament is the only good solution.
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby scoobyx2 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:18 am

Both sides of the arguement is the cause of this new proposal. Valley City prematurely got moved down, but the results showed that it was probably the best decision. They were finally able to "compete" at some level, but the schools in their region just kept complaining even tho VC didn't really dominate anything, so now we have this.
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby tweener » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:21 am

The only humorous thing I see about this whole topic is, alot of the other schools are now "jumping on the ship" for this plan.. The B schools were complaining about "VC" being so big of a school compared to their "little" schools.. Look at the numbers people VC lets say is 400 students or whatever.. Some of the schools are a lot smaller... Ok, then the schools with say 250 kids gripe because of the size difference.. Take VC with 400 and play WF with 2 to 3 times the enrollment... I really dont care either way here, my kids wrestle and play football, so it doesnt affect me.. We wrestle the WF, South, North and the bigger school along with the smaller schools, yet the boys dont complain having to, so why is it so much different to play B-ball or V-ball against these same teams?? Maybe its the mindset of the "players" whining about having to play these big schools... I believe too many mommies and daddies are trying to live through their kids.. Grow up and tell your kid to do the same thing... Or join band and choir... Nothing wrong with them doing that either. I dont know the exact enrollment of the schools and I could look it up but, Im not bothered by the size of the schools in question here. If ya love the sport and your good at it, play the game and shut-up.. Sorry if this may offend some but this is my OPINION...
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby ClassBEast » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:04 am

Hotzler: North Dakota preps, 3-class may work, but hard to pull off
By: Heath Hotzler, INFORUM

Some in North Dakota believe the current system for prep basketball and volleyball is broken.

It’s a numbers problem, they say. Schools with smaller enrollments are not getting enough opportunities to compete for a spot in the state tournament.

In addition, attendance is waning at the Class B state basketball tournaments the past few years. It’s time to re-energize the state’s passion for small town sports.

So how do we fix the problem?

For several years, the only solution offered up has been a three-class system.

The final version of the latest three-class proposal was unveiled on Tuesday to the North Dakota High School Activities Association.

It’s an interesting idea.

Basketball and volleyball will play as three divisions (Class AA, Class A and Class B) during the regular season, but only two state titles will be awarded at the end of the year.

Class AA (today’s Class A teams) will have a champion, and Class A and B will each send four teams into a combined state tourney to battle for one crown.

This assures four schools of smaller enrollments get a spot at state. And four of the bigger schools in current Class B are assured a spot.

But does it solve the problem?

What it appears to do is put Class B in a box. Can you imagine the NCAA basketball tournament putting a cap on the number of BCS schools selected to the tournament?

No way.

As good-intentioned and inclusive as this proposal is trying to be, it’s also being equally exclusionary.

Why would eight teams from this proposal’s Class A not be allowed to play in the tournament? Why not eight teams from Class B?

And a closer look at the numbers shows there may not be a need to do something drastic to get smaller schools a shot at a title.

In the last five Class B boys state basketball tournaments, 24 of the 40 teams have been from this proposal’s Class A and 16 were from Class B.

That’s an average of 4.8 for Class A and 3.2 for Class B.

The truth is that a traditional three-class system may work in North Dakota. But the authors of this new proposal found out it would be very difficult to pull off.

Edgeley Superintendent Rick Diegel, who helped come up with the plan, told the NDHSAA on Tuesday that his group wanted a true three-class system that finished with three separate state tournaments.

But no preferred venue in the state could host a new third event for basketball because of scheduling conflicts.

So they settled on this plan.

Again, does it solve the problem they set out to fix?

NDHSAA member schools will decide the proposal’s fate at a general assembly meeting Oct. 21 in Bismarck.
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby Sportsrube » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:07 am

I am not buying this new plan - How many times do the schools have to vote this 3 class plan down before it goes away. I understand that it may not be fair for a small school like Edgeley to compete with Valley City, but guess what - LIFE ISN"T FAIR! (If life was fair, we would all win the lottery) I disagree with how VC was put into Class B last year but the fact is - they didn't dominate in BB or VB. Us small schools need to put on our big boy/girl underpants and deal with it. Not everyone gets to play in a State Tournament - thats life, so deal with it.
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Re: Yet another 3-class proposal (BB & VB only)

Postby COACHWEST » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:13 am

scc wrote:Dropping the district tournament is the only good solution.



Well spoken from a media point of view...and I understand their point of view. I wonder if they understand the small school student and staff point of view of wanting to keep the District tournaments, and the revenue, alive?
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