Declining Participation

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Declining Participation

Postby ndfan » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:36 pm

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Re: Declining Participation

Postby Hinsa » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:52 pm

That story is sad but absolutely true. I see it everywhere I go.

Here's my theory on the declining participation: no one wants to sit on the bench any more. It seems like if a participant isn't a starter already when they are a sophomore they quit. Playing JV and working your way up isn't cool any more.

Just being on the team is not the honor it used to be. I can remember when there were 40 kids that showed up for varsity basketball tryouts and there were actually cuts. Now if you have enough kids to play both a JV and varsity game you are lucky in Class B.

Does anybody out there know of a B school that has a full varsity, JV, and C-squad? By full I mean 7-8 kids that only play varsity, another 12 or so on JV, and another 10 that play C-squad? If so, how are they getting that many kids out? What's the magic elixir to get more kids to come out and play?
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby Pfenix » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:56 pm

Mott-Regent has a full varsity, JV, C-squad and a freshman team. I don't know how much it's going to last though seeing as most of their varsity is made up of seniors but it's one school other than Trinity that comes to mind.

As for a magic elixer I don't know. Families in the area just had alot of boys over the years, and they all grew up loving basketball and other sports.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:58 am

How many total kids does MR have out? IF they have 4 full teams like you say, they must have at least 30 kids out for the team. That is pretty impressive and rare for a school the size of Mott.

I don't understand why kids don't go out for sports as often these days. The towns they listed in that article were fairly large and still had less than 20 kids out for the team. Kids just don't want to push themselves and work hard anymore.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby ndsportsfan24 » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:02 pm

i think a lot of it has to do with the regulations...kids who cant drink and play sports dont want to give up their "coolness". some of it might be the coaching or lack of success-many kids dont want to play if they arent going to win. DT has a lot of kids because they always have a chance to go to state because they always have kids getting experience..some schools dont have enough kids to fill c squad teams-these kids dont get experience that is needed later in varsity sports...those schools dont do well because they never improve. a team cant improve if they get beat every game from freshmen to seniors..they need the experience against kids their own age that have the same experience in the sports
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby ClassBEast » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:46 pm

Central Cass boys have full C-squad, JV and Varsity teams. They also have two 7th grade teams and two 8th grade teams. Plus our wrestling program has pretty good numbers too. But we have trouble getting enough athletes out for our football team, so I'm not sure what that means. We have enough athletes, just not enough that like football. Success in your program makes a difference too, I guess. Our football team hasn't been successful for many years and kids don't want to be part of a losing team. It's a vicious cycle... once you get on, it's hard to get off. Hopefully it will turn around in a few years for the football team.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby andy_7 » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:47 pm

"some of it might be the coaching or lack of success-many kids dont want to play if they arent going to win. DT has a lot of kids because they always have a chance to go to state because they always have kids getting experience."

I totally understand this point. Take Velva football, almost every boy in that school plays exept for im guessing around 2 . They understand the success of the program. But if your a kid in a high school were your not so talented or have that much success there is that embarassment factor. You don't want to play on a team that doesn't win anything.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:57 pm

Yeah, but they also mentioned Langdon and Cavalier in that article. Both of these programs have been fairly successful the last 10 years. Not necessarily in making it to state all the time, but always one of the challengers in their districts and even region. It amazes me that both towns only have about 12-15 in girls bball and 17-18 in boys.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby scruffy » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:08 pm

Is it possible declining enrollment has anything to do with not putting three teams together???? I think that's the biggest reason...
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:19 pm

Declining enrollment is one factor in a lot of schools, but Langdon and Cavalier must have between 75-100 boys in high school and all that go out for bball are 20? There are a lot of other factors in play there.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby oldtimeballer » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:26 pm

I think declining enrollment is a huge factor, especially in your smaller schools. Another big factor, in my opinion, is parents. I think that parents these days let the kids develop such attitudes and they don't want to listen to constructive criticism from the coach and there way of dealing with that is to either quit, or not go out. I remember high school sports being the best time of my life. I had so much respect for my coach, and sure sometimes when he was screaming at me, it was frusturating, but he was doing it because he wanted to make me a better player and he saw potential. I guess I could probably ramble on about the attitudes of kids these days. I shouldn't lump all the young students together, but it sure seems like a huge number of them have major attitude problems.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby Wild Wolves » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:50 pm

I think the fact that there are so many kids that would rather party and mommy and daddy aren't going to stop them. Plus if a coach raises his voice the kid stuff himself and cries to mommy that the coach is a bully. Then there are the kids who think they need to work 40 hours a week get C and D perhaps an F or two and then don't get to play and they blame the bad grades on the sport rather than working the closing shift at Wendy's.

Too many mentally weak kids.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby BB11 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:38 am

I'm not discrediting any of the former arguments - but I think the biggest thing with non-participation in these times is a number of things. Number 1 on my list - More options. Kids now a days have a million more options to do different things than some of us growing up - Not all of them are good mind you, but they are available. There is now the Extreme sport - craze - with kids more interested in skateboarding - snowmobiling - dirt bike riding - etc. These things are individualistic - with no pressure and can be done at their leisure - Biggest problem I see is the Computer and Xbox and all other video game type paraphenalia. Kids will admittedly stay up to 4 or 5 in the morning, every morning doing these things - they have no energy or desire to do anything else. Do parents come into play here - You bet - but many parents feel if there kid isn't causing any harm by doing these things - whats the problem. Which is true in some respects - but a lot of these kids are missing out on golden opportunites to be a part of something greater than themselves, and a part of something they will remember for a lot longer than how many points they scored on an XBox game.
So in retrospect - there is a number of different reasons why participation has gone down. Lack of kids, lack of kids playing together in the summer, and in their off-time. That used to be all we did as kids - get together and play football or basketball - because there was nothing else. Now they can get online and BS with each other for 8 hours a day - or go online with their Xbox and play games with each other for 8 hours a day - they just have more options that are a lot less work than physical activity - and to conclude - they don't know any better - because they don't KNOW what they are missing.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby scruffy » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:36 am

Other then declining enrollment it's material things. The kids need to work to pay for the type of cars they want to drive and the electronic gadgets that they want to play with. Priorities have changed over the years..
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby old lineman » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:39 pm

Old time baller is right on. It was the biggest honor to sit on the bench of a VARSITY GAME, do the cool warm ups and miss left handed layups while the pep band played. As an 8th grader all I wanted as a freshman was a lettermans jacket, and a hooded sweatshirt to wear under it so you could were it every day of the year. The instant success of the playstation has hurt alot of sport programs, wrestling was the first and hardest hit. But why did it hit places like Napolean not as hard, good coaches who got kids involved? That would be my anwser on the places that still fuel the fire. There are places that have had great involvement because parents push the sport and the school is staffed and ready to suport the efforts. Cutting kids at the varsity level is not the worst thing, but not an easy thing. Johnny is a senior gets to play 2 minutes a game and leads the team in turn overs, and missed 3 pointers gets mad about playing time and starts a cancer on the team. In Velva football this young man would have been told what his role on the team should be, good coaching. To make the puzzle come together you need to have some success for the kids, strong coaches, tough parents, and schools with a vision that sports are important.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby captain_caveman » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:01 pm

The kids in our school are involved in everything. Thus, they are average or below in everything. I wish we could get a few kids to specialize in one sport then we might have a chance at actually having a team that gets some where. In these small schools the kids are definately spread too thin so they only put the minimal time into everything they do.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby Wild Wolves » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:01 pm

You are so way off base that it is beyond reason.
They may not be great athletes, or put in the time but being active does not ever hinder them.
I see plenty of kids that say they are going to be just a FB, BB, hockey player and then do nothing in the off season. Get out and get involved in something athletic.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby Hinsa » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:11 pm

Amen, Wild Wolves. Hey I agree with you!!! :shock:

Tell Napoleon that their football and wrestling teams are not very good because the same kids play football and wrestle. Tell Dakota Prairie that their football and basketball teams aren't very good because the kids play football and basketball AND baseball. Gee, Mott/Regent football wasn't very good this year, were they; must be because those kids play basketball too.

If you took the time, you would see good teams are made up of good ATHLETES, not specialized kids. The kids that specialize and end up being good at a sport would have been good in other sports as well if they chose to participate.

Moral of story: get out and PARTICIPATE!!!!
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby point/center » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:12 pm

captain_caveman wrote:The kids in our school are involved in everything. Thus, they are average or below in everything. I wish we could get a few kids to specialize in one sport then we might have a chance at actually having a team that gets some where. In these small schools the kids are definately spread too thin so they only put the minimal time into everything they do.


if that was true why did guy's like Darin Erstad and Jim Kleinsasser excel in different sports from hockey to track and now play in the NFL and MLB?

you are so wrong.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby Wild Wolves » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:33 pm

[quote="Hinsa"]Amen, Wild Wolves. Hey I agree with you!!! :shock:

We would agree more if I wasn't such an antogonist :wink:
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby Hinsa » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:44 pm

LOL, Wild Wolves. Thanks for the humor.

Kleinsasser is a great example, Point/Center. Great football player, state champ in basketball, and wasn't he a terrific track guy too? Too bad he didn't specialize. The accomplishments he had in the other sports just weren't worth it.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby point/center » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:45 pm

Hinsa wrote:LOL, Wild Wolves. Thanks for the humor.

Kleinsasser is a great example, Point/Center. Great football player, state champ in basketball, and wasn't he a terrific track guy too? Too bad he didn't specialize. The accomplishments he had in the other sports just weren't worth it.


not to take away from Erstad who was a stellar hockey player and won a NCAA National Championship as punter for Nebraska.....
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby Wild Wolves » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:56 pm

Last years Mr. Basketball candidate
Wilhelm AC WR for BHS
JUstin B. all state FB, state track placer (bad hammy SR. year)
Qvale FB baseball
Kick (exception)
Bakkum Basebball
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby captain_caveman » Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:28 pm

I don't think my statement about our kids not specializing came out right. I was just commenting on the kids have more opportunities and activities point. Our kids, probably more so our girls, all play BB, all play VB/FB, all run track, and all play baseball/softball along with holding jobs and going on other school and summer activity trips. I understand that most small schools are in this situation. The percentage of kids that do this and actually excell in everthing is probably very slim. I don't think all kids should just pick one sport and forget the rest, I am just saying our school never develops a stud that can lead our teams. They play one sports season and move along to the next and it all runs together. We have had some good enough athletes but haven't developed an stud BB player in almost 10 years. Participation is not an issue, I am all for that.

If all ND high school athletes had the talent and desire as Kleinsasser and Erstad life would be different in the sports world. To compare the average athlete to these guys is not realistic. They are the exception.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby point/center » Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:39 pm

yeah, those guys are the cream of the crop...but look at waht wild wolve is saying. to a lesser degree it's everywhere. athletes are athletes and specialization isnt necessary in HS.
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