A vs. B

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Re: A vs. B

Postby baseball » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:40 pm

balla45 wrote:
NDSportsFan wrote:Are you saying that it's just as easy to win the Class B state championship, as it is to win the Class A?


Yes, I am also saying it is not easy to win either one.


lets say half the teams wont even be considered as possible state tourney teams. thats still 1 in 60 chances to win state. Class A has the same thing, Valley City, Jamestown, GF Central, Turtle Mountain, Whapeton...they arent in discussions as possible state tourney teams. but the thing is that they can get to state with one fluke win the WDA or EDC tourney. In class B, one fluke win wont get you to the tourney. some people say the tournament is boring sometimes because teams like Trinty, Shiloh, Mayport are there year after year. what about teams like BHS, Fargo South, Dickinson, Williston....they are in the tourney year after year. it would be different if a team like Trinity had to beat only Tappen and then they are in state....thats what its like in Class A. Bismarck High beats St Marys and they jsut stamped their ticket to state.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby balla45 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:48 pm

baseball wrote:
balla45 wrote:
NDSportsFan wrote:Are you saying that it's just as easy to win the Class B state championship, as it is to win the Class A?


Yes, I am also saying it is not easy to win either one.


lets say half the teams wont even be considered as possible state tourney teams. thats still 1 in 60 chances to win state. Class A has the same thing, Valley City, Jamestown, GF Central, Turtle Mountain, Whapeton...they arent in discussions as possible state tourney teams. but the thing is that they can get to state with one fluke win the WDA or EDC tourney. In class B, one fluke win wont get you to the tourney. some people say the tournament is boring sometimes because teams like Trinty, Shiloh, Mayport are there year after year. what about teams like BHS, Fargo South, Dickinson, Williston....they are in the tourney year after year. it would be different if a team like Trinity had to beat only Tappen and then they are in state....thats what its like in Class A. Bismarck High beats St Marys and they jsut stamped their ticket to state.


In all reality, there are about 15 class B teams who have a legit shot of doing good at state. Every year there are teams that get there that I know won't have a chance at winning, and they never do.

In class A a fluke can get you to state, but if you aren't a good team, you won't win it. In class B a fluke win won't get you in either, but a weak region or or district is basically the same team as a fluke team getting into state.

You named all the teams that are at state in A almost every year. These teams are good almost every single year, that would be a big reason. That is also why it is very hard to win state in class A. Qvale and Hennessey didn't win state.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby Deuce » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:04 pm

They are not stamped after 1 win but they get the easiest first game because Bismarck earned that with the #1 seeding from the regular season. They still have to beat the winner of the 4,5 game in order to not have win in the elimination bracket. The 2 seed would still have to get by the 3 seed. If you're Williston or Mandan you have to go through Bismarck or win in the elim bracket. Century would have to beat Dickinson and Minot or win 1 or 2 on the elim. Century would probably get Jamestown in the first elim game but then faces the looser of BHS (Williston/Mandan) second elim. So no one has 1 win and you're in. And what is the Trinity vs Tappen?? Are you saying Jamestown/Turtle Mtn is a Tappen quality team? I have to disagree there.

(1) Bismarck
(8) St Marys/(9) Turtle Mtn

(4) Williston
(5) Mandan

(2) Minot
(7) Jamestown

(3) Dickinson
(6) Century
Last edited by Deuce on Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby baseball » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:07 pm

but thats why Trinity and Shiloh and Mayport are there year after year and teams like Linton and Hazen are always conteders late in the year.....because they are good every year, not because of weak districts and weak regions.

and Duece, im not saying Tappen and Turtle Mountain are the same quality a team. but when compared to the best teams on there respectiv levels, they have the sames chances of winning against them teams. ie....Tappen vs Trinity and Turtle Mountain vs Bismarck.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby Deuce » Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:28 pm

Here's some interesting facts, since '74 in boys bb there have been 3 repeat winners in both class A and class B but no 3 peats. In class A Jamestown (76,78,82,87,93) and Minot (80,88,90,95,99) are tied for the most championships with 5 each. Fargo North (77,85,02,06) and Bismarck (94,00,01,05) are tied with 4. For class b May-Port (87,96,97,02,03)has the most with 5 and Hillsborro (74,77,81) has 3. I have no point with that informaion just thought that it was interesting.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby balla45 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:37 pm

baseball wrote:but thats why Trinity and Shiloh and Mayport are there year after year and teams like Linton and Hazen are always conteders late in the year.....because they are good every year, not because of weak districts and weak regions.

and Duece, im not saying Tappen and Turtle Mountain are the same quality a team. but when compared to the best teams on there respectiv levels, they have the sames chances of winning against them teams. ie....Tappen vs Trinity and Turtle Mountain vs Bismarck.


Here is why I think that the level of difficulty in winning state in either is very hard, and for different reasons.

A: Quality of competition, Ability of average team to have great night.
B: Quantity of competition, Fact that if you have one off night, you don't go to state.

Reasons it is easier.

A: Not a lot of teams, Two good games get you to state.
B:Two or three players can win state for an entire team, Competition usually has a weak player at some spot.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:53 pm

Good post balla.....Class A and B are different, but one is not necessarily better than the other.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby baseball » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:11 pm

balla45 wrote:
baseball wrote:but thats why Trinity and Shiloh and Mayport are there year after year and teams like Linton and Hazen are always conteders late in the year.....because they are good every year, not because of weak districts and weak regions.

and Duece, im not saying Tappen and Turtle Mountain are the same quality a team. but when compared to the best teams on there respectiv levels, they have the sames chances of winning against them teams. ie....Tappen vs Trinity and Turtle Mountain vs Bismarck.


Here is why I think that the level of difficulty in winning state in either is very hard, and for different reasons.

A: Quality of competition, Ability of average team to have great night.
B: Quantity of competition, Fact that if you have one off night, you don't go to state.

Reasons it is easier.

A: Not a lot of teams, Two good games get you to state.
B:Two or three players can win state for an entire team, Competition usually has a weak player at some spot.


thats the best way ive seen it put yet...
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Re: A vs. B

Postby cornerback*22* » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:01 pm

so are we debating which class is better or like which is harder
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Re: A vs. B

Postby eggman » Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:30 pm

smart source wrote:
baseball wrote:Watch the Steele-Dawson girls play and tell me no teams play that type of defense because the shot clock doesnt allow them. granted this whole topic has been aobut boys but if a girls team can do it, i think a guys team can (trinity).

The B teams i mentioned average a combined 70.8 PPG. The A teams average 60.4 PPG in the adjusted 32 minutes. thats 79.6 to 67.9 in favor of class B is the 36 minute game. you also must be one of the guys who thinks if a team holds the ball for more then 25 seconds its stalling. said it before and ill say it again....stalling and patience are not the same thing....stalling is standing with the ball on your hip at the halfline for 40 seconds while the defense just sits back. passing the ball around the court for 40 seconds is not stalling, unless its a 4 corner passing, if it goes along the perimeter all within 25 feet of the hoop...thats patience and looking for a good shot. good teams dont stall, good teams are patient.


yea i can read i know the b teams you mentioned i know im saying every single solitary team in the state class a and class b if you found the average of both classes ppg...and your naming one 2 teams in the state if you had to guess do you think that the majority of class b teams run a zone or a man to man d meant to cause turnovers
There are like 150 class B teams so naturally there will be a team or two that does play stall ball. That is just how it works when u take that many different philosphys.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby eggman » Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:43 pm

NDSportsFan wrote:Are you saying that it's just as easy to win the Class B state championship, as it is to win the Class A?
it takes the same amount of wins in a row to win the state A championship as it does to make it to the B tournament.I don't care who you r playing, when its tournament time and the intensity and excitment is raised its difficult to beat anyone. Having to win 3 extra games makes it more meaningful and maybe tougher.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby balla45 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:48 am

eggman wrote:
NDSportsFan wrote:Are you saying that it's just as easy to win the Class B state championship, as it is to win the Class A?
it takes the same amount of wins in a row to win the state A championship as it does to make it to the B tournament.I don't care who you r playing, when its tournament time and the intensity and excitment is raised its difficult to beat anyone. Having to win 3 extra games makes it more meaningful and maybe tougher.


Having to win 3 extra games does not make it more meaningful. The only way a person could say that is if they were to have won a championship in both A and B.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby ndlionsfan » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:16 am

It might not necessarily make it more meaningful to win 3 extra games, but it does make the odds a lot more difficult!
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Re: A vs. B

Postby bestinthewest » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:04 am

Class B: starts in their district with a lower level of competition. If you want to advance, you need to be better than the competition.
Once you make it to regionals the competition is greater because all the teams there have earned their regional berth by eliminating the weaker teams.
When the regional champion goes to state, they have outlasted all the other teams in their region, making them the best team in the region.
Now, they have to go up against the best every night three nights in a row and that is the true test of a state champion.

Class A: Play your regular season, beating or losing to the same teams night in and night out.
Go to the west and east region tournaments without earning a spot, you basically just go because you exist.
Then, the top 4 from each region go to the State tournament. This means you can lose and still go to state. The only teams that really deserve to go to state are the 2 regional champions.
and chances are that the two teams that make it to this State Campionship game (by beating 2 teams they have played before(who are not necesarily the best teams from any part of the state)) have already played each other several times.

Now you tell me which is harder to win.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby balla45 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:07 am

They are equal. The hardest thing to do in Class B basketball is to win the championship.
They are equal. The hardest thing to do in Class A basketball is to win the championship.

You can put your spin on it and say that Class B is harder to win. Then again, would the team I play on struggle at all to win state in Class B?
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Re: A vs. B

Postby baseball » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:28 am

Give the best team in Class B 200 more guys to pick from if your going to play that card.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby balla45 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:50 am

Sorry to bring up a dead topic, but I asked Jalen Finley which is harder to win and which is more meaningful, because he won an A championship and a B championship, both times on a loaded team.

This is pretty much what he said. It is basically the same. Class B there are only 1 or 2 teams that can actually beat you and you'll play at state. Class A there is basically only 1 or 2 teams that can beat you and you'll play at state.

I think this says a lot.
~I have no patience for anyone who doubts me, none at all. My entire goal is to make them feel ashamed for writing me off.

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Re: A vs. B

Postby scoobyx2 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:33 am

balla45 wrote:Sorry to bring up a dead topic, but I asked Jalen Finley which is harder to win and which is more meaningful, because he won an A championship and a B championship, both times on a loaded team.

This is pretty much what he said. It is basically the same. Class B there are only 1 or 2 teams that can actually beat you and you'll play at state. Class A there is basically only 1 or 2 teams that can beat you and you'll play at state.

I think this says a lot.

The hardest part for a player to win in Class B is actually putting a great team together with the limited number of kids, and keeping them together long enough to win a Championship...pray nobody gets hurt or move away or just quit. The hardest part for a player to win in Class A is putting in the years of hard work in a program, and making it through long enough to even be on the team that is good enough to challenge for a Championship.
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