A vs. B

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Re: A vs. B

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:49 pm

I think more teams run a man to man pressure defense than a zone. That's what I was taught in high school, that's what I taught my players to do when I coached, and that's what I'm still seeing the majority of teams play now. Yeah, teams will switch to a zone a bit in the middle of the game or use one as a game plan against certain teams but I see a lot more man defense than zones.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby cubsfan » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:53 pm

I would say the more quality teams run a pressure man to man defense. Zones are also made to help teams with less athletic ability to be able to compete with more athletic teams.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby baseball » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:48 pm

smart source wrote:
baseball wrote:
smart source wrote:
baseball wrote:Watch the Steele-Dawson girls play and tell me no teams play that type of defense because the shot clock doesnt allow them. granted this whole topic has been aobut boys but if a girls team can do it, i think a guys team can (trinity).

The B teams i mentioned average a combined 70.8 PPG. The A teams average 60.4 PPG in the adjusted 32 minutes. thats 79.6 to 67.9 in favor of class B is the 36 minute game. you also must be one of the guys who thinks if a team holds the ball for more then 25 seconds its stalling. said it before and ill say it again....stalling and patience are not the same thing....stalling is standing with the ball on your hip at the halfline for 40 seconds while the defense just sits back. passing the ball around the court for 40 seconds is not stalling, unless its a 4 corner passing, if it goes along the perimeter all within 25 feet of the hoop...thats patience and looking for a good shot. good teams dont stall, good teams are patient.


yea i can read i know the b teams you mentioned i know im saying every single solitary team in the state class a and class b if you found the average of both classes ppg...and your naming one 2 teams in the state if you had to guess do you think that the majority of class b teams run a zone or a man to man d meant to cause turnovers


most teams will run a man to man unless its an extended 1-3-1 or 1-2-2 where they can trap. Zones are mainly used when a team cant match up inside or prevent a team from getting to the rim and to make htem hit outside shots in order to beat you. if your going to try and force a turnover a 2-3 wouldnt be your best bet, man would be....ball pressure + denied passing lanes = turnovers




thanks coach k....i played basketball for a long time i know the purpose and thats not what i asked i said do you think in your own opinion that more team in class b run zone than teams that run a man pressure d


well basically anyone who knows anything about basketball would know the answer to that question so i thought maybe i had to explain since you asked
plus in the first sentence of my response i answered your question...."most teams will run a man to man unless its an extended 1-3-1 or 1-2-2 where they can trap"
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Re: A vs. B

Postby BB11 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:10 am

baseball wrote:
smart source wrote:
baseball wrote:
smart source wrote:
baseball wrote:Watch the Steele-Dawson girls play and tell me no teams play that type of defense because the shot clock doesnt allow them. granted this whole topic has been aobut boys but if a girls team can do it, i think a guys team can (trinity).

The B teams i mentioned average a combined 70.8 PPG. The A teams average 60.4 PPG in the adjusted 32 minutes. thats 79.6 to 67.9 in favor of class B is the 36 minute game. you also must be one of the guys who thinks if a team holds the ball for more then 25 seconds its stalling. said it before and ill say it again....stalling and patience are not the same thing....stalling is standing with the ball on your hip at the halfline for 40 seconds while the defense just sits back. passing the ball around the court for 40 seconds is not stalling, unless its a 4 corner passing, if it goes along the perimeter all within 25 feet of the hoop...thats patience and looking for a good shot. good teams dont stall, good teams are patient.


yea i can read i know the b teams you mentioned i know im saying every single solitary team in the state class a and class b if you found the average of both classes ppg...and your naming one 2 teams in the state if you had to guess do you think that the majority of class b teams run a zone or a man to man d meant to cause turnovers


most teams will run a man to man unless its an extended 1-3-1 or 1-2-2 where they can trap. Zones are mainly used when a team cant match up inside or prevent a team from getting to the rim and to make htem hit outside shots in order to beat you. if your going to try and force a turnover a 2-3 wouldnt be your best bet, man would be....ball pressure + denied passing lanes = turnovers




thanks coach k....i played basketball for a long time i know the purpose and thats not what i asked i said do you think in your own opinion that more team in class b run zone than teams that run a man pressure d


well basically anyone who knows anything about basketball would know the answer to that question so i thought maybe i had to explain since you asked
plus in the first sentence of my response i answered your question...."most teams will run a man to man unless its an extended 1-3-1 or 1-2-2 where they can trap"


I've agreed with pretty much all your points in this argument up till this one baseball. I'm not exactly disagreeing with you either - because most teams do play pressure with man. But some teams who play a match-up zone and do it well -are actually a lot more aggressive and get a lot more steals than teams that I've seen play man. Specific example last year was Westhope-Newburg's crew. They averaged 18 steals a game last year and pretty much every game I saw them play last year - which was 5 or 6 - they played match-up zone. I saw a lot more Ryan games who played almost all in-your-face man to man defense - and they were around the 12 -13 steal a game mark.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby baseball » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:14 am

thats why i said most teams. for some teams a zone is a better defense (Syracuse), but man is the main one used for pressure. I never saw Westhope play at all so im just wondering what kinda zone it was, 2-3, 1-3-1, 1-2-2, 3-2....? and was it extended at all?
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Re: A vs. B

Postby BB11 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:17 am

baseball wrote:thats why i said most teams. for some teams a zone is a better defense (Syracuse), but man is the main one used for pressure. I never saw Westhope play at all so im just wondering what kinda zone it was, 2-3, 1-3-1, 1-2-2, 3-2....? and was it extended at all?

It was kind of a 1-1-3 that merged into a 2-3 - basically looked like what Minot State runs. Very effective - if you have the players that know how to do it.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby baseball » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:24 am

thats true, zones are good if they are run right. but thats just it, not alot of teams konw how to run them right so man to man is just easier to say you go gaurd this guy, instead of saying you gaurd this spot. match up zones are effective though
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Re: A vs. B

Postby BB11 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:27 am

baseball wrote:thats true, zones are good if they are run right. but thats just it, not alot of teams konw how to run them right so man to man is just easier to say you go gaurd this guy, instead of saying you gaurd this spot. match up zones are effective though

Agreed - I haven't seen a lot of great zone defensive teams this year however. New Rockford - back in their hey dey used to run an unbelievable 1-3-1 when Demester was coaching them to all those state experiences - That was probably the best use of a zone I have seen in Class B for a long time.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby sportsking09 » Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:28 am

Having been to both class a and class b basketball state, class b state basketball tournements are far more intense and have twice as mnay fans. i attend a class a school and think class b is more exciting to watch. i konw its not class a and class b but like in high school football what class aaa football team went undeafted and had people driving from towns all around to come watch a matchup between two undeafeted 15-0 teams, last game of the season, game(divide county v.s. williams county) ya it was a blowout but overall class b is more entertaining and i think the players go through more of a struggle to win and advance than in class a
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Re: A vs. B

Postby cubsfan » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:59 pm

The thing that makes class b more exciting is the fans. The anticipation, the atmosphere, it is probably the best thing in ND.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby smart source » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:23 pm

cubsfan wrote:The thing that makes class b more exciting is the fans. The anticipation, the atmosphere, it is probably the best thing in ND.



ok point taken...but which is better basketball
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Re: A vs. B

Postby NDSportsFan » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:32 pm

It's all relative. Talent level, Class A is better, passion and excitement - probably Class B.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby smart source » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:10 am

NDSportsFan wrote:It's all relative. Talent level, Class A is better, passion and excitement - probably Class B.


what does passion have to do with class? i would say class a and class b players are care just as much you could actually make the argument class a would care more because class a players lets be honest they have a better shot at getting a scholarship....so are you gonna be more passionate thinking hey i can get my college payed for if i play well so they could care more you never know i dont neccessarily believe that but im just saying
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Re: A vs. B

Postby baseball » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:01 am

smart source wrote:
NDSportsFan wrote:It's all relative. Talent level, Class A is better, passion and excitement - probably Class B.


what does passion have to do with class? i would say class a and class b players are care just as much you could actually make the argument class a would care more because class a players lets be honest they have a better shot at getting a scholarship....so are you gonna be more passionate thinking hey i can get my college payed for if i play well so they could care more you never know i dont neccessarily believe that but im just saying



there it is again thinking Class A is better.....look at the college rosters lately. there are just as many B players on them as their are A players. and what he means by the passion is the support the community shows in their team and how passionate they are. state B a whole commmunity goes if their team is in, even if their kids dont play. Class A parents "might" go, but lets be honest, more would just follow the scores in the paper if they care at all. Class B a whole community rallies around 12 kids.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby BB11 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:25 am

baseball wrote:
smart source wrote:
NDSportsFan wrote:It's all relative. Talent level, Class A is better, passion and excitement - probably Class B.


what does passion have to do with class? i would say class a and class b players are care just as much you could actually make the argument class a would care more because class a players lets be honest they have a better shot at getting a scholarship....so are you gonna be more passionate thinking hey i can get my college payed for if i play well so they could care more you never know i dont neccessarily believe that but im just saying



there it is again thinking Class A is better.....look at the college rosters lately. there are just as many B players on them as their are A players. and what he means by the passion is the support the community shows in their team and how passionate they are. state B a whole commmunity goes if their team is in, even if their kids dont play. Class A parents "might" go, but lets be honest, more would just follow the scores in the paper if they care at all. Class B a whole community rallies around 12 kids.

Exactly - Just look at Parshall last year - I would venture to say that 80-85% of their entire community were in Bismarck last year - and many former community members and graduates as well. That's what happens in Class B. Class A - you don't have guys coming to watch their team in state that graduated 15 years ago and are living in Arizona or California or somewhere else - its not THAT big of a deal to them - but is in the B. Everyone comes out of the woodwork if their team - former team - or former community makes it. I know I've personally talked to people at the B who have come from those places and others - New Hampshire - New York, etc - to watch their cousins - brothers - friends kids - etc play in the B. I'm not positive - but I don't think you get that with A - just look at their attendance figures - its half of the B's - which makes no sense because they have at least 10 times the amount of people in their communities. THAT's PASSION BABY!
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Re: A vs. B

Postby baller24 » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:41 am

BB11 wrote:
baseball wrote:
smart source wrote:
NDSportsFan wrote:It's all relative. Talent level, Class A is better, passion and excitement - probably Class B.


what does passion have to do with class? i would say class a and class b players are care just as much you could actually make the argument class a would care more because class a players lets be honest they have a better shot at getting a scholarship....so are you gonna be more passionate thinking hey i can get my college payed for if i play well so they could care more you never know i dont neccessarily believe that but im just saying



there it is again thinking Class A is better.....look at the college rosters lately. there are just as many B players on them as their are A players. and what he means by the passion is the support the community shows in their team and how passionate they are. state B a whole commmunity goes if their team is in, even if their kids dont play. Class A parents "might" go, but lets be honest, more would just follow the scores in the paper if they care at all. Class B a whole community rallies around 12 kids.

Exactly - Just look at Parshall last year - I would venture to say that 80-85% of their entire community were in Bismarck last year - and many former community members and graduates as well. That's what happens in Class B. Class A - you don't have guys coming to watch their team in state that graduated 15 years ago and are living in Arizona or California or somewhere else - its not THAT big of a deal to them - but is in the B. Everyone comes out of the woodwork if their team - former team - or former community makes it. I know I've personally talked to people at the B who have come from those places and others - New Hampshire - New York, etc - to watch their cousins - brothers - friends kids - etc play in the B. I'm not positive - but I don't think you get that with A - just look at their attendance figures - its half of the B's - which makes no sense because they have at least 10 times the amount of people in their communities. THAT's PASSION BABY!

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Re: A vs. B

Postby ClassBEast » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:06 pm

baseball wrote:
smart source wrote:
NDSportsFan wrote:It's all relative. Talent level, Class A is better, passion and excitement - probably Class B.


what does passion have to do with class? i would say class a and class b players are care just as much you could actually make the argument class a would care more because class a players lets be honest they have a better shot at getting a scholarship....so are you gonna be more passionate thinking hey i can get my college payed for if i play well so they could care more you never know i dont neccessarily believe that but im just saying



there it is again thinking Class A is better.....look at the college rosters lately. there are just as many B players on them as their are A players. and what he means by the passion is the support the community shows in their team and how passionate they are. state B a whole commmunity goes if their team is in, even if their kids dont play. Class A parents "might" go, but lets be honest, more would just follow the scores in the paper if they care at all. Class B a whole community rallies around 12 kids.


I agree. The passion comes from the fans, not necessarily the players. You could try an experiment. Go to south Fargo and randomly ask 10 people how the Bruins basketball team is doing this year. My guess is you'll have 1 or 2 who might know. Then ask if they've been to a game. Maybe 1 of them has. Then go to a Class B town and try the same experiement. You would get vastly different results. That's part of the reason we left Fargo to live in a small town... the community. The support you get for your kids' activities. The opportunity to play any sport you want. The passionate following of a team. What could be better?
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Re: A vs. B

Postby cubsfan » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:15 pm

I have a question for some people who say class a basketball is so much better than class b basketball: Is winning the state class a tournament more meaningful than winning the class b state tournament?
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Re: A vs. B

Postby balla45 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:21 pm

Winning either tournament is exactly the same. You won the tournament at the highest level your team can get to.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby baseball » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:08 pm

i would say its more meaningful to the team who beats 125 other team and not just 18
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Re: A vs. B

Postby Deuce » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:31 pm

I've played in the class B tournament and I'd have to say its close. On one hand the class B is an experience I'll never forget and is exhilarating (my school has only ever been there twice) but on the other hand if you win class A you can say your'e the best team in ND because its the highest class. Not to start an argument on who can beat who, its just that classes mean levels and if you're the highest level you can claim being the top.

The argument I hear the most is in class A you're always there but winning it is winning it, not easy and very exciting. I would think if Trinity wins this year it'd be very exciting for them even though they've been to the 'ship 4 of the last 5 years and been to state the last 7 years.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby balla45 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:46 pm

baseball wrote:i would say its more meaningful to the team who beats 125 other team and not just 18


What would make that more meaningful? You aren't beating 125 teams or 18 teams. You are only beating the other 8 teams in the tournament. Almost all of the rest can be considered average teams. The state champion is only beating 7 teams.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby NDSportsFan » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:21 pm

Are you saying that it's just as easy to win the Class B state championship, as it is to win the Class A?
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Re: A vs. B

Postby balla45 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:30 pm

NDSportsFan wrote:Are you saying that it's just as easy to win the Class B state championship, as it is to win the Class A?


Yes, I am also saying it is not easy to win either one.
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Re: A vs. B

Postby NDSportsFan » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:36 pm

But just as easy? I strongly disagree with that. But I respect your opinion coming from a class A background.
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