North Dakota Preps

If we had to go to 3 classes the Big B/Little B idea is the most tolerable option I've heard. And I would go with Magic's idea of Big B in one bracket, Little B in the other. Then you get an unoffical Big B champ and Little B champ after the semis and an overall B champ after the final.

I like that idea, IF, IF, IF we must split into 3 classes. I'd still rather keep it the way it is. The David and Goliath matchups are what make the B what it is.

Sounds like the old ABC system. When the state tournament rolls around, note that they have a 50-year champion team for the Class C also. Ask some of the old guys in your towns what it was like. My school was a Class C champion, and they were pretty proud of it. Didn't seem to be a problem for them.

According to the Bis Trib they're going to have a straw vote in Jan on a 3 class bb system.
I think they should keep 2 classes but move more class b schools up. I'd take the top 32 schools and make them A. (actually 33 since Bishop Ryan and Kindred are tied) and split that into 2 regions with 2 districts. Each district adv 4 to regionals and each region adv 4 to state.

7-11 wrote:Sounds like the old ABC system. When the state tournament rolls around, note that they have a 50-year champion team for the Class C also. Ask some of the old guys in your towns what it was like. My school was a Class C champion, and they were pretty proud of it. Didn't seem to be a problem for them.

that's all fine and dandy but i bet 50 years ago we probably had 50 more HS than we do now. NOW it doesnt make any sense. make VC their own class and let them be champions every year.

point/center wrote:

7-11 wrote:Sounds like the old ABC system. When the state tournament rolls around, note that they have a 50-year champion team for the Class C also. Ask some of the old guys in your towns what it was like. My school was a Class C champion, and they were pretty proud of it. Didn't seem to be a problem for them.

that's all fine and dandy but i bet 50 years ago we probably had 50 more HS than we do now. NOW it doesnt make any sense. make VC their own class and let them be champions every year.

That's true....probably underestimated even, too. If they do end up going to a 3 class system I hope they split a lot of these co-ops up and make more teams. I know a lot of these schools have co-oped so they have the numbers to compete with the larger schools. Now if it would change to 3 classes there would be a more level playing field for those smaller schools that need co-ops right now, but might not need them in the 3 class system.

Deuce wrote:According to the Bis Trib they're going to have a straw vote in Jan on a 3 class bb system.
I think they should keep 2 classes but move more class b schools up. I'd take the top 32 schools and make them A. (actually 33 since Bishop Ryan and Kindred are tied) and split that into 2 regions with 2 districts. Each district adv 4 to regionals and each region adv 4 to state.

This doen't really solve anything. If Valley City can't compete with South, why would you want Kindred to try to compete with them. It is difficult when you have only about a dozen schools that are getting bigger and every other school seems to be getting smaller. At some point a decision has to be made. If you go to three classes you're basically agreeing that the smallest schools can't compete with the schools in the middle. At that point you can't ignore the schools like VC who say they can't compete with the biggest schools. Now you end up with a Class A that only has 10 or a dozen schools in the entire state. What big achievement is winning a state title that only a dozen schools are competing for during an entire season? I say leave it as 2 classes and try to keep the number of class A schools about where it is. This should be about competing to the best of your ability. If you do that and still lose there should be nothing wrong with that. NOT EVERYONE CAN BE A WINNER EVERY TIME.

its also amazing when half the teams in the class play in the state tournament......

Instead of coming up with a three class system, I'd change the state tournament formats. Any three class system that would be established today would be obsolete in five years because of the rapidly diminishing enrollments. Instead make the class "A" tournament a final four format. Advancing to state should be an accomplishment and if half the conference goes to state it makes a tourney berth meaningless. In class "B" I'd propose a sweet sixteen with the top two teams from each region advancing to the mother of all North Dakota tournaments.. If you want to really stir up the pot have the regional runner ups face a challenge from another regions third place finisher. That way if a region is loaded with three or four top tier teams, up to three could advance. Their would be logistical obstacles to overcome but I really think it could be pulled off.....

i saw a shirt a few years ago that had the field of 64 teams like the NCAA tourney set up with the 8 teams that played in the regions for the 8 regions. how about just make it the 64 team tourney like the NCAA. match up the districts top 4 teams taht would normally advance to regionals but have them play 4 teams froma different district. #1 from district 3 plays #4 from district 7 and so on with all 16 districts. this way you may see more then 1 team from a region make it to the "elite 8". either that or the media can seed the 64 teams that advance through districts 1-64...that way we can all complain about where our team is ranked and how we can do it better

scc wrote:I think class A should have a reduced field of four teams at state. As for class B, I say keep the eight-team state tournament field, but seed the eight teams rather than have the matchups predetermined.

who or how would you seed them? i like the pre-determined regional pairings/matchups.

honestly, i would say keep the classes the way they are, its worked for this many years, why change it

I agree Roughrider, but I get the sense that many feel they have to make a change. I would leave it alone because I don't see any better alternative except to make the "B" a sweet 16....

scruffy wrote:I agree Roughrider, but I get the sense that many feel they have to make a change. I would leave it alone because I don't see any better alternative except to make the "B" a sweet 16....

To me there is already a sweet sixteen game its called the regional championship game. Anyway its stupid at some point schools are gonna start closing down and then your just gonna have to change the system again.

ndfan wrote:

scruffy wrote:I agree Roughrider, but I get the sense that many feel they have to make a change. I would leave it alone because I don't see any better alternative except to make the "B" a sweet 16....

To me there is already a sweet sixteen game its called the regional championship game. Anyway its stupid at some point schools are gonna start closing down and then your just gonna have to change the system again.

For years I've argued that point. Basically you could look at the Regional semi-finals and say ND Class B has a 32 team, netural site play in for State. Lose and go home.

Agree. Semi-final night and the final night can't be beat for atmosphere. HOWEVER, the NDHSAA has it in their heads that a change must be made. They will ruin the greatest high school sport in the state. A very loud and misinformed minority won't give up until they succeed in destroying class"B" basketball.

A 3 class system for basketball would be the lamest thing in the world..
Just let the horrible teams just keep gettin killed..
The population in North Dakota is already suffering..You cant just break up the classes..
Where would be the competition?

SnuggleMuffin wrote:A 3 class system for basketball would be the lamest thing in the world..
Just let the horrible teams just keep gettin killed..
The population in North Dakota is already suffering..You cant just break up the classes..
Where would be the competition?

the whole thing about the ndhsaa is they don't care about the level of competition. they don't care about quality of the sports. they care about making money. they care about not getting sued. that is all. of course, you'd think that they'd realize one has one to do with the other.

and basically while three tournaments will make money initially, after a couple of years it will be like the opening round of a holiday tournament where there are more people sitting on the benches for both teams than there are sitting in the stands.

rep wrote:

SnuggleMuffin wrote:A 3 class system for basketball would be the lamest thing in the world..
Just let the horrible teams just keep gettin killed..
The population in North Dakota is already suffering..You cant just break up the classes..
Where would be the competition?

the whole thing about the ndhsaa is they don't care about the level of competition. they don't care about quality of the sports. they care about making money. they care about not getting sued. that is all. of course, you'd think that they'd realize one has one to do with the other.

and basically while three tournaments will make money initially, after a couple of years it will be like the opening round of a holiday tournament where there are more people sitting on the benches for both teams than there are sitting in the stands.

Honestly...They arent really gonna make that much more money..Probably gonna cost more to light the civic center up then the revenue that they would get for Class C state tourney...
Cuz who would honestly go watch Class C duke it out with max scores of 30?
Idkk again just my opinion
The only people that would come would be friends/family

Why do you think Class C scores would be in the 30's?? Just because its a lower class with schools with smaller enrollments doesn't mean there wouldn't be good basketball. Class A doesn't score any higher than Class B right now.

Class C wouldnt be any fun to watch...There is only maybe one athlete on every team..
The rest are kids that arent ballplayers..
Ya know?

No, I don't know. Small schools produce athletes too. They may not be as big or as fast, but they produce athletes through repetition and hard work just like the big schools.

However, I am NOT advocating 3 classes....

Hinsa wrote:No, I don't know. Small schools produce athletes too. They may not be as big or as fast, but they produce athletes through repetition and hard work just like the big schools.

However, I am NOT advocating 3 classes....

Alright...I mean yah...Schools have there years where they have real athletic classes.. but i just dont think a 3 class system should EVER go through..Unless there is a huge population boom in ND within the next year haha..

Atleast you arent supporting the 3 class system..
And im not saying that the smaller schools dont have athletes im just saying they have certain years where they are good at certain sports..it just wouldnt be a frequent steady flow of competivness in a 3 class B-ball system..
Keep the class the way they are ya know?

Vote to survey interest in three classes
Eric Peterson, The Forum
Published Monday, January 28, 2008

The North Dakota High School Activities Association today will gauge the level of interest its member schools have for a three-class system in basketball and volleyball.

At a general membership meeting in Bismarck, a vote will be taken to see whether the membership wants the Board of Directors to further study and possibly develop a three-class model for the two sports.

“There is a lot that’s up in the air,” said May-Port-CG athletic director Dave Nelson. “I just don’t know what’s going to happen. I just hope there is a clear majority one way or the other so there is more of a clear direction.”

Based on the vote, the board will have to interpret whether there is enough interest to proceed. That could become tricky if the vote is even or slightly in favor of studying three classes.

“We haven’t really put that down, that it has to be 60 percent or something like that,” said Lorell Jungling, a board member from Mandan. “It’s to give the board some direction from some member schools and how serious we are in pursuing this.”


Valley City High School had sent a letter to the NDHSAA requesting that the board study a move to three classes. Valley City is a Class A school with an enrollment of 371 in grades 9-12, according to the 2007-08 NDHSAA directory of member schools.

The NDHSAA decided to bring the issue to its members before deciding which course of action to take.

Nelson said May-Port-CG will vote against the board studying a move away from the current two-class system.

“Our school is right now looking at saying to stay away from it,” Nelson said. “It’s going to be hard to know how to go on this with there being less and less schools and how it will affect state tournaments. It’s such a sensitive topic.”

Ed Lockwood, Fargo Public Schools Athletic Director, said Fargo North and Fargo South plan to vote in favor of the board studying the issue.

“I really think we need to take a look at the whole future of the activities association,” Lockwood said. “What is it going to look like in 10 years from now? What is it going to look like five years from now? In Class A, we have high schools with over 2,000 kids in them competing against schools with 325 in them.”

Readers can reach Forum reporter Eric Peterson at (701) 241-5513.

Peterson’s prep sports blog can be found at http://www.areavoices.com

This issue being requested to be looked into by Valley City. Why wasn't this requested when Jeff Boschee was still in high school or when the Terry brothers still went to school there? Has the number of students decreased that badly or has the programs just been that bad? It seems to me that the school athletic programs have just got to work harder. They play schools with lower enrollment and have the second highest in AA football and went 0-9. Maybe they want to move down to class A to give themselves even easier chance to compete.

All I can say is I hope it fails. Sad to see Ed Lockwood come down in favor of three classes. Is he doing this as a favor to VC or for Al Cruchet?