Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

A place for all other topics related to North Dakota high schools, and athletics.
Forum rules
Please do not post just to complain about players, coaches, teams, officials, fans, or anyone else. Lets all try to demonstrate the spirit of good sportsmanship. Posts may be edited or deleted that do not comply.

Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby Makotifarmguy » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:49 pm

I realize this has been hashed over and over, but as I drive across the countryside, the landscape is changing around here. Good or bad? depends on who you talk with; but nonetheless we are in a historic event here. Here is my question.

From everything I am hearing with the oil boom changing some towns such as Watford City, Stanley, Killdeer, Beulah, Hazen, and others could we see themselves staring Class A right in the face. Will this force the state into a 3 class system?

Bear in mind, I am not advocating for a 3 class system, but when one hears things like Stanley is looking at 700 new homes that raises the question.
"Take the bull by the horns"
User avatar
Makotifarmguy
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:01 am
Location: Middle of the Prairie

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:44 am

Yeah, if you look at the new football plan its pretty crazy how much the enrollment of a lot of those schools out west has increased in just two years. Stanley has gone from borderling 9man to near the top of AA in the next round.
"There is only one thing in which a person can start at the top - digging a hole"
User avatar
ndlionsfan
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3187
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 am
Location: Central ND

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby NDplayin » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:34 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:Yeah, if you look at the new football plan its pretty crazy how much the enrollment of a lot of those schools out west has increased in just two years. Stanley has gone from borderling 9man to near the top of AA in the next round.


This isn't fully accurate. While Stanley is AA in the proposed football plan for 2013-14, they aren't anywhere near the top. In fact, they are the third smallest at 113 male students. Only Enderline/Maple Valley and Lisbon are below them with 112 and 111 respectively. Also, I wouldn't have called Stanley "bordering 9-man" before. In the last rotation they had 27 more male students than the largest 9-man school had (Hillsboro). None-the-less, Stanley's growth of 17 male students (16 in the co-op with Powers-Lake... who is 1 smaller) is significant.

Speaking of Hillsboro... The fact that they dropped from 72 to 70 in male enrollment but still ended up moving from 9-man to A might be an indication that as a whole, ND schools are getting smaller- not bigger... And that two classes in basketball is continually making even more sense than it ever has.

Aside from Watford City and Stanley, there don't seem to be that many school enrollments hugely impacted by oil activity. Even Watford City's growth doesn't change the athletic landscape too much. With football as an example, they simply return to AA after only a 2 year hiadus. Yes, some schools are seeing increasing enrollment, but it is no where near proportional to the growth of the town. A vast majority of oil workers are single men traveling without family or children to enroll in the schools.
NDplayin
NDPreps All-Conference
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:42 pm

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby COACHWEST » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:59 pm

But the problem is participation. Even when there are new students, are they active and involved? In most cases not. Many times these students are used to living a "transient" sort of lifestyle and are reluctant to get involved in too many activities, if any. It is tough to "punish" these schools by moving them up or down based on enrollment when enrollment does not directly affect participation.
COACHWEST
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby NDplayin » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:24 am

If participation is a problem, it is not a problem of the NDHSAA nor of the class system, but a problem that the individual school needs to address. Your point about these students that relocate often not wanting to participate may be a valid one, but that needs to be where the encouragement of the coaches and administration needs to come into play.

Lack of participation has long been a trademark of unsuccessful programs- even in schools with high enrollments. This was true before the oil boom, it's true during the oil boom, it's going to be true after the oil boom.

The 3 class debate doesn't pertain to football, but the football plan is the easiest way for us to access and compare enrollment numbers. The origion post on this thread directly referenced Watford City, Stanley, Killdeer, Beulah, Hazen. If you compare the 2013-14 football plan to the 2011-12 football plan, Only Watford City and Stanley have grown--- Hazen, Beulah, and Killdeer have all shrunk in enrollment. Furthermore, while Watford and Stanley jumped a football class, they are still a long, long way away from jumping a basketball class.

Any classification "problem" being caused by the oil boom seems to be more imaginary than real.
NDplayin
NDPreps All-Conference
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:42 pm

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby COACHWEST » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:41 pm

NDplayin - I agree with your entire post. As a school, coach, etc., you are responsible for participation issues. There are some highly successful programs that do fight numbers though, usually for other reasons. I was just hoping to point out that the "boom" students that move in, likely know they are going to move again and do not tend to get involved in many activities. Watford City enrollment numbers are up, but not participation. Do you consider them an unsuccessful program?
COACHWEST
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:03 pm

You also have to consider that there are developments in which hundreds of new houses will be built in Tioga, Stanley, Watford City, etc. in the next year or two. A lot of people that are just up here working and left their families behind will probably be moving them up here when housing is available. Then you might see an even great enrollment jump in some of these schools.
"There is only one thing in which a person can start at the top - digging a hole"
User avatar
ndlionsfan
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3187
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 am
Location: Central ND

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby bison football73 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:32 pm

everyone talking about this subject is looking at right now and how it has affected it this year or a year ago. the truth is, this oil boom is still in its infancy. it is projected to last 20 years if not longer. will all these towns be affected most of them are and those schools like Hazen, Beulah, and Killdeer will likely start climbing more and more as the towns out west lose room to put people. im not saying this will happen but that is what is being projected. i read in the paper yesterday that Bismarck is starting to make plans on the population growth. a couple of the options talked about was adding an entirely new high school.

idk if this makes a case for a 3 class system, but populations out west will likely rise significantly
bison football73
NDPreps All-Conference
 
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:00 pm

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby Indy5 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:35 pm

bison football73 wrote:everyone talking about this subject is looking at right now and how it has affected it this year or a year ago. the truth is, this oil boom is still in its infancy. it is projected to last 20 years if not longer. will all these towns be affected most of them are and those schools like Hazen, Beulah, and Killdeer will likely start climbing more and more as the towns out west lose room to put people. im not saying this will happen but that is what is being projected. i read in the paper yesterday that Bismarck is starting to make plans on the population growth. a couple of the options talked about was adding an entirely new high school.

idk if this makes a case for a 3 class system, but populations out west will likely rise significantly

Bismarck has been talking about adding a new high school for awhile. Bismarck High is top 3 in enrollment in the state.
User avatar
Indy5
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2227
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:21 pm
Location: Northwest ND

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby winner-within » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:27 pm

Populations rising will change the dynamics of demographics, but I actually think it will speed consolidations and the 2 system will remain and become more competitive in both classes........I would really like to see more sports available to the youth of ND.....and not Hockey
"It doesn't matter who scores the points, it's who can get the ball to the scorer" - Larry Bird
winner-within
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4063
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:08 am

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby Indy5 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:13 pm

winner-within wrote:.....and not Hockey

Like it or not Winner, it's the 4th biggest sport in America.
User avatar
Indy5
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2227
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:21 pm
Location: Northwest ND

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby winner-within » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:38 am

Indy5 wrote:
winner-within wrote:.....and not Hockey

Like it or not Winner, it's the 4th biggest sport in America.


I like it.....its just to costly for most kids.....3 class will never happen for ND Basketball....Upping the enrollment # (which I would support) I think will come to the table again in a few years, there are schools just barley hangin on (which is sad but true) and they will have to come together for Consolidation.

If Measure 2 passes in June 2012 (and its growing legs) the Public School system will be rocked and set for Change.
"It doesn't matter who scores the points, it's who can get the ball to the scorer" - Larry Bird
winner-within
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4063
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:08 am

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:09 am

winner-within wrote:Populations rising will change the dynamics of demographics, but I actually think it will speed consolidations and the 2 system will remain and become more competitive in both classes........I would really like to see more sports available to the youth of ND.....and not Hockey


What sports would you like to see?
"There is only one thing in which a person can start at the top - digging a hole"
User avatar
ndlionsfan
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3187
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 am
Location: Central ND

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby winner-within » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:00 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:
winner-within wrote:Populations rising will change the dynamics of demographics, but I actually think it will speed consolidations and the 2 system will remain and become more competitive in both classes........I would really like to see more sports available to the youth of ND.....and not Hockey


What sports would you like to see?


I think the Eastern half should offer more Rodeo, there are a lot of Horse folks and familys over here....Lacross, Soccer, tennis.
"It doesn't matter who scores the points, it's who can get the ball to the scorer" - Larry Bird
winner-within
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4063
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:08 am

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby NDplayin » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:10 pm

COACHWEST wrote:NDplayin - I agree with your entire post. As a school, coach, etc., you are responsible for participation issues. There are some highly successful programs that do fight numbers though, usually for other reasons. I was just hoping to point out that the "boom" students that move in, likely know they are going to move again and do not tend to get involved in many activities. Watford City enrollment numbers are up, but not participation. Do you consider them an unsuccessful program?

Watford City is obviously a successful program; their track record speaks for itself. However, I would counter that just because their participation numbers have no increased does not mean that they have a participation problem. Are they able to play 3 games in a night 9-12 still? I don't really see them play.

I'm not refuting your point, and it is a good one. Statisically, I'm confident that families that move in and out often are less likely to participate. I just don't think that point has much bearing on a 2 vs. 3 class debate for this reason: Unfortunately, there are plenty of coaches out there, if you told them their classification would depend on the numbers that participate and not the number available, who would discourage anyone who wasn't going to be a varsity contributor from coming out to play in order to keep participation numbers low. That isn't what HS sports is all about.

Others have made some interesting points on here that have relevance to this point. The talk of building more homes to move families up here and the oil boom lasting 20 years kinda negates the theory that these families know they will be moving again soon. Either they are coming to stay for 20 years, in which case the use for non-participation is gone... or they are planning on leaving and being replaced by another family... in which case enrollments don't continue to rise but the oil percentage just becomes a revolving door of different students (that doesn't help the participation angle, but it would mean no one would be jumping to class A)
NDplayin
NDPreps All-Conference
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:42 pm

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby GRIDIRON GURU » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:43 pm

[/quote]What sports would you like to see?[/quote]

I think the Eastern half should offer more Rodeo, there are a lot of Horse folks and familys over here....Lacross, Soccer, tennis.[/quote]

I am fine with Rodeo, but but there is no place for limp wristed sports in North Dakota.

Soccer and tennis already robs kids from football in schools the size of Jamestown and Valley city. You offer those sports in smaller towns you are only hurting existing programs. Kids who don't want to play football can practice being boy cheerleaders in the fall.

On a more serious and logical note I would like to see power lifting sanctioned by the NDHSAA.

One Class, there are a lot of schools who do not have wrestling, and some class A schools don't have Hockey, numbers are not important, almost zero cost to the school other than some travel to meets. You don't have to be a tremendous athlete to compete and have success, It's an olympic sport, It gives kids who can not cut it on the matt, hardwood, or ice a chance to compete in the winter. Nearly every school as someone designated as a strength and conditioning coach or superviser. It makes sense to me
"One thing you have to remember Bobby, soccer was invented in europe by women, so they would have something to do while the men stayed home and did the dishes"
Hank Hill
User avatar
GRIDIRON GURU
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 645
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:51 am
Location: USA

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby winner-within » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:03 pm

GRIDIRON GURU wrote:
I am fine with Rodeo, but but there is no place for limp wristed sports in North Dakota.

Soccer and tennis already robs kids from football in schools the size of Jamestown and Valley city. You offer those sports in smaller towns you are only hurting existing programs. Kids who don't want to play football can practice being boy cheerleaders in the fall.

On a more serious and logical note I would like to see power lifting sanctioned by the NDHSAA.

One Class, there are a lot of schools who do not have wrestling, and some class A schools don't have Hockey, numbers are not important, almost zero cost to the school other than some travel to meets. You don't have to be a tremendous athlete to compete and have success, It's an olympic sport, It gives kids who can not cut it on the matt, hardwood, or ice a chance to compete in the winter. Nearly every school as someone designated as a strength and conditioning coach or superviser. It makes sense to me



I'm more of a Bodybuilder mentality than Power lifter...its just as serious......I would like to see you after a 6 hour Tennis match....safe to say your wrist wouldn't be the only thing limp......

I like the Spine intact
"It doesn't matter who scores the points, it's who can get the ball to the scorer" - Larry Bird
winner-within
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4063
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:08 am

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby Flip » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:11 pm

do other states have power lifting?
User avatar
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2892
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby Mandan » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:42 pm

There's so many crazy numbers being thrown around. If you believe everything that's been printed in the newspapers in the last 6 months, in 10 years we will have this for population:

Minot - 100,000
Williston - 40,000
Dickinson - 36,000
Stanley - 10,000
Watford City - 7,500

I don't believe all these numbers, as some of them seem too extreme to be realistic within the time period, but they have all been reported as potential estimates in various newspapers over the past few months. If they would come true, you would wind up with more class A sized schools, and maybe pull Minot Ryan and Dickinson Trinity back into class A with higher enrollments. 3 classes wouldn't be too hot a topic in that case.
Mandan
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:07 am
Location: Mandan, ND

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby triplebbb » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:30 pm

WC has always had 3 teams in bball...they have had around 110 new students come to school since the end of last year in grades 7-12. the elementary has had more than that...they are moving 6th graders to the high school next year to make room for the other elementary sections with numbers pushing 70 per class....many of those new high school students have moved on or dropped out (around 40)...very few have contributed to any sports in WC...participation numbers, even with the enrollment gains, are the same as the last 15 years.
triplebbb
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:18 pm

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby winner-within » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:59 pm

Its an interesting topic, brought to the table by a Bright fellow yet I see no Correlation between an Oil Boom and 3 classes in Basketball for ND........In the years of 3 classes you had 3 size of class rooms...and these are guesstamations but you will get the point.
Class C.....10 to 25 kids in a class, k-12
Class B.....26 to 50 kids in a class, k-12
Class A...50 plus... kids in a class, k-15

You had at least a 100 more schools in activation and there was a real NEED for 3 Classes.....Now days anyone hoping for it is basing the desire for it on Basketball......back when, it was because of enrollment and the amount of schools.

todays classroom population??? and remember there are hundreds of less classrooms in general.
Class B....8 to 35
Class A....35 plus
Last edited by winner-within on Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It doesn't matter who scores the points, it's who can get the ball to the scorer" - Larry Bird
winner-within
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4063
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:08 am

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby footballchicken » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:18 am

Lets split the state up and make an Oil Conference vs. Non Oil Conference.

Class B-oil
Class A-oil

Class A-non
Class B-non

have them meet at state and pit Big Oil vs. Farmers -
footballchicken
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:39 pm

Re: Oil Boom and 3 Class System?

Postby Bisonguy06 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:43 pm

Just my quick take on this topic: The boom would have zero impact on whether the three class system would be a good idea.

Watford City, Stanley, Killdeer, New Town, ect may grow to become mid sized towns, but the smaller communities of Ray, Tioga, Crosby, Berthold, Belfield, South Heart, ect. are growing as well. It's still to be determined whether population increases will lead to increases in enrollment and participation. So far, I'm not aware of many new impact players contributing to teams in oil boom communities.

If anything, the boom could lead to a healthier, deeper and more competitive Region 7 & 8. The boom is widespread, it's not going to lead to an unreasonable edge for one or two communities.
Bisonguy06
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 603
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:48 pm


Return to Hot Topics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron