The end of an era

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Re: The end of an era

Postby The Schwab » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:23 am

yep...workin in gods country doesnt do much for internet access
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Re: The end of an era

Postby classB4ever » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:00 pm

flatlander wrote:While the student body has changed at Notre Dame, it would be kind of insulting to their alumni and such to suggest that Irishness is not a huge part of Notre Dame's past, present, and future. UND has no Sioux roots and a minuscule Sioux presence (I'm guessing 100 Sioux out of the 388 students claiming Indian descent). This is despite UND getting millions and millions of tax dollars for Indian programs. What does that mean? Indian programs are a huge cash cow at UND... they could pay full tuition for every Sioux kid who enrolls (but they don't) and still make a lot of money.

Personally, this is just my opinion and reasonable people can disagree with me and possibly convince me otherwise, but NO I do not think the nickname has helped Sioux causes at all at UND - in fact, exactly the opposite. What motivated UND to get involved with the tribes, not just the Sioux, was a genuine desire to serve the state. Now, that seems to have changed for the worse. In too many peoples' minds this service has been linked to the nickname and, more and more, all the nickname seems to generate is the very worst kinds of threats and insults rather than doing anything beneficial.


I never intended to suggest that Notre Dame's "Irishness" has diminished. I was simply stating that Notre Dame's percentage of Irish students has probably decreased with the addition of more non-Irish students in the past couple of decades. I do believe that this is a fair guess, but do not have the data to back it up.
I guess we could sit here and debate whether or not Native American students have benefitted from UND's stance. I think you are saying that they haven't done enough and for the wrong reasons? I am stating that it is undisputably better and improving every year. My point is that it had to start somewhere. I will disagree with you concerning that it has changed for the worse. Even if it isn't for all the right reasons, many young Native Americans are getting a fine education and hopefully these adults will come back and tell us whether or not it is or isn't enough, and where we should go from here. I hope for everyone's sake, that if the name is changed, we do not go backward.

One last note. I am not Native American. Perhaps I do not have the right to debate this subject. I hope that we debated in a respectful way with our eyes and ears open, only looking to find out more from other people's perspective.
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Re: The end of an era

Postby inky » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:53 am

:(
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Re: The end of an era

Postby sportsking09 » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:44 pm

HUGE breakthrough in the sioux nickname controversey! The tribal election has been held, and finally Ron His Horse is Thunder(not so thunderous anymore) has NOT been relected, which mean a new tribal council leader has been elected. Charles Murphy, former trible leader, has defeated his horse is (not so thunderous anymore) thunder. Murphy supports bringing the nickname issue into the council and having a tribal referendum vote, something that Ron his horse is thunder refused to do, many believe because he knows that there would have been overwhelming reservation wide support for the nickname. there were also other new members voted into the council. either way, i see this election throwing a wrench into the nickname opponents' plans. i believe we will all see just how much the reservation supports the nickname after all. again a big win for the Standing Rock Reservation and for UND! GO SIOUX!!!!!

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/news/sta ... 002e0.html
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Re: The end of an era

Postby Sportsrube » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:20 pm

As a UND fan, I hope they allow a referndum on the nickname on the Standing Rock Reservation. But remember this - if the vote is "no" - then we need to let the nickname go and move on. I really like my "Fighting Sioux" jerseys and will wear them no matter what, but once the vote is done we all need to accept the result, whatever it is, and move on.
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Re: The end of an era

Postby AC-DC » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:29 pm

Sportsrube wrote:As a UND fan, I hope they allow a referndum on the nickname on the Standing Rock Reservation. But remember this - if the vote is "no" - then we need to let the nickname go and move on. I really like my "Fighting Sioux" jerseys and will wear them no matter what, but once the vote is done we all need to accept the result, whatever it is, and move on.

Last I heard, you wouldn't be wearing the jersey to a UND game. Let's hope Standing Rock comes through. Fighting Sioux Hockey is ND's only national class sports team. I truly believe the name and tradition help set them apart. Go Sioux!
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Re: The end of an era

Postby classB4ever » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:16 am

I heard there was a new ruling, but didn't catch the specifics. Can someone shed light on this?
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Re: The end of an era

Postby Mighty-Mouse » Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:48 pm

Better buy your Fighting Sioux items now. The name is going away, sorry to say. (I believe) The board voted to do away with the name. :cry:
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Re: The end of an era

Postby Sportsrube » Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:47 pm

They will have one more year to use the nickname and then in the 2011-2012 school year will have a new nickname/logo. They have said they will definitely not be going back to "Flickertails" which is good news!
Anyone care to suggest a new nickname or make a guess on what it will be?
I would like to see something to do with their aeronautics program or something else from ND history but thats just me. It will also be interesting on how they will go about choosing the new nickname/logo.
Either way, I am still a huge UND fan and always will be.
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Re: The end of an era

Postby Indy5 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:41 pm

Sportsrube wrote:They will have one more year to use the nickname and then in the 2011-2012 school year will have a new nickname/logo. They have said they will definitely not be going back to "Flickertails" which is good news!
Anyone care to suggest a new nickname or make a guess on what it will be?
I would like to see something to do with their aeronautics program or something else from ND history but thats just me. It will also be interesting on how they will go about choosing the new nickname/logo.
Either way, I am still a huge UND fan and always will be.

I have heard rumors of them being called the Force of the North, since they are already called that sometimes.
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Re: The end of an era

Postby Flip » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:46 pm

Indy5 wrote:I have heard rumors of them being called the Force of the North, since they are already called that sometimes.

The University of North Dakota Force of the North. Just rolls off the tongue.
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Re: The end of an era

Postby Sportsrube » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:16 am

I am not a fan of the Force of the North, what would the logo be? I hope that they come up with something better than that.
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Re: The end of an era

Postby duke_boy90 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:59 pm

What about the North Stars. Just bring back that name.
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Re: The end of an era

Postby Divide & Conquer » Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:22 am

Just leave it at University of North Dakota. Any nickname other than the Fighting Sioux, just doesn't sound right. I'd even leave the Ralph exactly the way it is, just drop the name from jerseys and new publication.
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Re: The end of an era

Postby The Schwab » Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:52 am

Divide & Conquer wrote:Just leave it at University of North Dakota. Any nickname other than the Fighting Sioux, just doesn't sound right. I'd even leave the Ralph exactly the way it is, just drop the name from jerseys and new publication.


Now i'm not sure how this will all work, but to host NCAA tournaments they will have to remove the logos and such, and I'm not sure, but if I remember right there is some clause in the Ralph contract that said if they change the name that the Ralph can't be used anymore.
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Re: The end of an era

Postby Divide & Conquer » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:19 pm

The Schwab wrote:
Divide & Conquer wrote:Just leave it at University of North Dakota. Any nickname other than the Fighting Sioux, just doesn't sound right. I'd even leave the Ralph exactly the way it is, just drop the name from jerseys and new publication.


Now i'm not sure how this will all work, but to host NCAA tournaments they will have to remove the logos and such, and I'm not sure, but if I remember right there is some clause in the Ralph contract that said if they change the name that the Ralph can't be used anymore.


I'm sure it's been said before, but what a waste. You can't change the past and the legacy is still there. Why would you deface a work of art becasue you don't like the subject, it's still art.
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Re: The end of an era

Postby Indy5 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:08 pm

The Schwab wrote:
Divide & Conquer wrote:Just leave it at University of North Dakota. Any nickname other than the Fighting Sioux, just doesn't sound right. I'd even leave the Ralph exactly the way it is, just drop the name from jerseys and new publication.


Now i'm not sure how this will all work, but to host NCAA tournaments they will have to remove the logos and such, and I'm not sure, but if I remember right there is some clause in the Ralph contract that said if they change the name that the Ralph can't be used anymore.

I've heard that about the Ralph too. That would be the dumbest thing ever if the nicest sporting arena in ND could not be used just because we had to change the name of the team.
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Re: The end of an era

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:17 am

How does a college like UND have to change the Sioux nickname, whereas a high school (Westhope-Newburg) doesn't have to change their Sioux nickname?
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Re: The end of an era

Postby ndfan » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:34 am

Run4Fun2009 wrote:How does a college like UND have to change the Sioux nickname, whereas a high school (Westhope-Newburg) doesn't have to change their Sioux nickname?


Because the last time I checked Westhope wasn't affiliated with the NCAA.
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Re: The end of an era

Postby scoobyx2 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:04 pm

ndfan wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:How does a college like UND have to change the Sioux nickname, whereas a high school (Westhope-Newburg) doesn't have to change their Sioux nickname?


Because the last time I checked Westhope wasn't affiliated with the NCAA.

Florida State is affliated with the NCAA, and they get to stay as the Seminoles. I understand that the governing group in Florida approved it, but it could still be offensive to someone.
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Re: The end of an era

Postby old#63 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:13 pm

scoobyx2 wrote:
ndfan wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:How does a college like UND have to change the Sioux nickname, whereas a high school (Westhope-Newburg) doesn't have to change their Sioux nickname?


Because the last time I checked Westhope wasn't affiliated with the NCAA.

Florida State is affliated with the NCAA, and they get to stay as the Seminoles. I understand that the governing group in Florida approved it, but it could still be offensive to someone.

The only way the NCAA gave exemptions was if the local tribes endorsed it. That just didn't happen for UND. Florida State Seminoles, Central Michigan Chippawas, and Utah Utes all got approval from the local tribes and were granted exemptions. UND couldn't get that to happen. I really thought when Murphy got voted in as Tribal Chairman at Standing Rock that he would let the tribe vote on it, but he didn't. End of the story.
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Re: The end of an era

Postby Indy5 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:23 pm

old#63 wrote:
scoobyx2 wrote:
ndfan wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:How does a college like UND have to change the Sioux nickname, whereas a high school (Westhope-Newburg) doesn't have to change their Sioux nickname?


Because the last time I checked Westhope wasn't affiliated with the NCAA.

Florida State is affliated with the NCAA, and they get to stay as the Seminoles. I understand that the governing group in Florida approved it, but it could still be offensive to someone.

The only way the NCAA gave exemptions was if the local tribes endorsed it. That just didn't happen for UND. Florida State Seminoles, Central Michigan Chippawas, and Utah Utes all got approval from the local tribes and were granted exemptions. UND couldn't get that to happen. I really thought when Murphy got voted in as Tribal Chairman at Standing Rock that he would let the tribe vote on it, but he didn't. End of the story.

Aren't the Utes a fake tribe like the Illini?
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Re: The end of an era

Postby ndfan » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:40 pm

Indy5 wrote:
old#63 wrote:
scoobyx2 wrote:
ndfan wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:How does a college like UND have to change the Sioux nickname, whereas a high school (Westhope-Newburg) doesn't have to change their Sioux nickname?


Because the last time I checked Westhope wasn't affiliated with the NCAA.

Florida State is affliated with the NCAA, and they get to stay as the Seminoles. I understand that the governing group in Florida approved it, but it could still be offensive to someone.

The only way the NCAA gave exemptions was if the local tribes endorsed it. That just didn't happen for UND. Florida State Seminoles, Central Michigan Chippawas, and Utah Utes all got approval from the local tribes and were granted exemptions. UND couldn't get that to happen. I really thought when Murphy got voted in as Tribal Chairman at Standing Rock that he would let the tribe vote on it, but he didn't. End of the story.

Aren't the Utes a fake tribe like the Illini?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ute_people
The Ute (pronounced /ˈjuːt/ "yewt") are an American Indian people now living primarily in Utah and Colorado. There are three Ute tribal reservations: Uintah-Ouray in northeastern Utah (3,500 members); Southern Ute in Colorado (1,500 members); and Ute Mountain which primarily lies in Colorado, but extends to Utah and New Mexico (2,000 members). The name of the state of Utah was derived from the name Ute. The word Ute means "land of the sun" in their language and it is now used as Utah's state slogan.
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Re: The end of an era

Postby Indy5 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:51 am

ndfan wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ute_people
The Ute (pronounced /ˈjuːt/ "yewt") are an American Indian people now living primarily in Utah and Colorado. There are three Ute tribal reservations: Uintah-Ouray in northeastern Utah (3,500 members); Southern Ute in Colorado (1,500 members); and Ute Mountain which primarily lies in Colorado, but extends to Utah and New Mexico (2,000 members). The name of the state of Utah was derived from the name Ute. The word Ute means "land of the sun" in their language and it is now used as Utah's state slogan.

Haha so I was obviously off.
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Re: The end of an era

Postby scoobyx2 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:56 am

Indy5 wrote:
old#63 wrote:
scoobyx2 wrote:
ndfan wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:How does a college like UND have to change the Sioux nickname, whereas a high school (Westhope-Newburg) doesn't have to change their Sioux nickname?


Because the last time I checked Westhope wasn't affiliated with the NCAA.

Florida State is affliated with the NCAA, and they get to stay as the Seminoles. I understand that the governing group in Florida approved it, but it could still be offensive to someone.

The only way the NCAA gave exemptions was if the local tribes endorsed it. That just didn't happen for UND. Florida State Seminoles, Central Michigan Chippawas, and Utah Utes all got approval from the local tribes and were granted exemptions. UND couldn't get that to happen. I really thought when Murphy got voted in as Tribal Chairman at Standing Rock that he would let the tribe vote on it, but he didn't. End of the story.

Aren't the Utes a fake tribe like the Illini?

The Fighting Illini is an honored group of Illinoisans who fought in World War 1. The the Chief symbol (that was retired) was adopted after the Fighting Illini nickname was established.
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