North Dakota Preps

What does everyone think, is the nickname Fighting Sioux hostile and abusive? It's been a big topic of late and will be until they get it resolved. Discuss in a appropriate manner.

 Dare I offer an opinion?


Fighting Sioux is not hostile and abusive.  The problem are the idiots who who use the image of the Sioux for derogatory purposes for the entertainment of other fans.  I'm on the fence with it, in most cases when something is offensive to ANYBODY, I say, get rid of it.  It's not that easy in this case, and I for one am glad that I am not involved in the conflict other than as a bystander.  I will not bad-mouth either side.

The problem is that there is always idiots who will chant or use logos in poor taste. You will never get everyone to agree on this issue and that is very clear. My problem is that the name has in the past been approved and for a long time, the question lies in that why does there need to be approval after approval after approval.

I will hold back no skeltons, I am definitely a supporter of the Fighting Sioux logo so take my opinion with as much salt as you give that. Simply stated, put it to a vote by the state of ND and let's see what happens.

EDIT Added: I also don't feel it is fair how the NCAA selected only certain schools and logos and the like. Make it equal or don't do it at all. Those are my two biggest issues.

Here's another article from the Grand Forks Herald on the Nickname. UND senate met last night thats what the article is about.

I see no link?

This was the staff senate and yes it wasn't a surprise. Nor was the students reaction but I do give them props for being creative!

No, I see no problem with the nickname. After all, it is just a nickname. It's not something the Sioux need to use, but there is such a big story behind it, such a history.

It disappoints me that they might not be able to keep it, as I am a huge UND fan. They had better not make them change the Ralph either after all the work that went into that amazing building.

Just wonderin IF and only IF the NCAA was to stand by their ruling of banning the Fighting Sioux nickname. How would it effect the University of North Dakota athletics? What would they do with REA? Does UND keep the name or change it? These are just IF's. I'm just interested what would happen if it were actually to happen.

ndfan wrote:Just wonderin IF and only IF the NCAA was to stand by their ruling of banning the Fighting Sioux nickname. How would it effect the University of North Dakota athletics? What would they do with REA? Does UND keep the name or change it? These are just IF's. I'm just interested what would happen if it were actually to happen.

Personally I feel it would have a huge impact on students, fans and alumni. The last one of those being the biggest real world impact as far as monetary support. This is a loyal bunch of fans we're talking about here, and even if the university were to give up the name, I don't see the fans reacting as quickly.

I have no idea what happens to the REA, I guess that comes down to the next question on whether UND keeps the name anyway and forgoes its hosting of playoff events and creates different uniforms for tournament time.

But in the end only time will tell, because we can ask "what if" questions all day long. Let's just hope it doesn't come to having to answer those questions.

In a related note I saw that Illinois filled it's second appeal.

I really don't think this is gonna be a IF question, something tells me unless the tribes in this state support it I don't see UND winning any sort of appeal. Hopefully i am proven wrong on this one. Will be interesting to see though.

ndfan wrote:I really don't think this is gonna be a IF question, something tells me unless the tribes in this state support it I don't see UND winning any sort of appeal. Hopefully i am proven wrong on this one. Will be interesting to see though.

Tribes opinion won't matter if this one goes to the big time, ie...court, not just an appeal with the NCAA. I can see UND taking it that far because of how much the name means.

I think the name can be concidered a badge of honor. when they are good, which they are in most sports, i would be proud to be not only a fan but a tribe member as well.

As a person who works with enrolled members of sioux tribes and has a son who is enrolled in a chippewa tribe, I can see both sides of the argument.  I don't believe it is necessarily the Fighting Sioux fans who are causing this debate.  It is the opposing fans that are derogatory towards the Fighting Sioux nickname.  Imagine how the Sioux struggle chants could affect the feelings of a young native american child.  I also remember as a student of UND T-shirts that were being sold showing quite derogatory pictures of a Native American and a Bison!!!  LOL.   Well all in good fun, I can see how those could be taken as derogatory.  Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to the nickname in the least but I can see the other sides of the fence as well.  I would not like to take my son to a game and have him have to hear the chants that are degrading to his family.  All in all, I feel that UND has treated the mascot and logo issue with the utmost respect.  UND has a lot of programs that are very beneficial to ALL Native American students and no one can control the way that opponents of UND cheer towards the Fighting Sioux.  Go Sioux!

 

I am a non-native american who was and is proud to have been a Mandan Brave and a North Dakota Fighting Sioux.  I believe that people should be judged by what they say and how they act not by what others say or do.  I think that whether a name is offensive or not is how the school, its students and alumni use and regard the name, not how others may chose to use it.  If what others say is controlling how far does it go?  What if Minnesota or Wisconsin Hockey fans say that North Dakota s-----?  Dakota is an American Indian name as well.  What if Bismarck or Minot says Mandan s-----?  Again Mandan is the name of a tribe.  Should we change the name of a town, or our state because of what others say?

I read where more Native American Doctors have graduated from UND than any univeristy in the country.  Also that Florida State who is permitted by the NCAA to use the Seminole name as well as having an Indian mascot and logo, does not have any Seminole students enrolled and has only had a handful ever.   While UND has a growing Native american student population.  Isn't it more important what kind of positive impact a school has on its students?

I would not be opposed to UND dedicating some proceeds from the sale of Sioux merchandise, towards native american programs or scholarships, which could even increase the positive impact for Sioux and other Native americans. 

Fighting Sioux is not offensive.  The few people from the tribe complaining just want money from UND and probably want to build a casino in Grand Forks to.

Soiux is not at all a violent or abusive name.  Let's just apply this to high school sports.  The Saints are playing the Bluejays.  Someone yells, "The Saints struggle!"  I highly doubt that they actually mean that they are heathen devil worshippers who hate saints.  Or the other way around, who hates a silly little bird.  The point is that no matter what the name is, the opponents are going to hate it.  We don't see the catholic church making St. Mary's change their name.

Yeah I'm Irish.  And Im not offended with Notre Dame and the Fighting Irish!  Plus their mascot is a leprechan.

I think some of it is the tribal leaders trying to get everybody wrapped up in the whole nickname thing and not focusing on the real issues with the sioux, such as life on the reservations, alcoholism, suicide, etc.

Grand Forks Herald article today that the Standing Rock Sioux tribe has given support to the nickname:

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/14443237.htm

Kupchella's response:

http://www.und.edu/news/NEW_SCRIPTS/new ... sp?id=1792

The NCAA will file it's ruling on UND's last appeal tomorrow, Friday April 28th, 2006.

NCAA denies UND and others appeals:

http://www2.ncaa.org/portal/media_and_e ... lease.html

Something tells me they won't accept this quietly.

The ruling doesn't surprise me at all.

 I think that UND would probably accept the penalties for awhile before they decide to change the name.

The comments in the paper and on the news that I took issue with were:

Dr. Gipp, president of United Tribes College, who said that he hoped the tribes could work with UND to come up with a name that both was respectful of native americans and reflect the history of the state.  Doesn't he get it?  If UND does change its name it will have nothing to do with native americans.  Who would ever want it to?  UND would never know if someone later would say the new name was hostile in the future.

Standing Rock Sioux Chairman was concerned about a backlash against native americans.  I hope there isn't because this isn't a us against them, situation, unless the them is the NCAA committee.  I have good friends that are native american and who are proud of the Fighting Sioux, and from what I hear there are a lot of them.  Changing the name will not change the proud history of the the "Fighting Sioux" name at UND, and UND will continue its fine tradition.  

I hope that it won't be native american students that will be hurt by this.  UND has done quite a bit for native american students in the last number of years, more than most univeristies in the country.  Will UND still have the same interest in promoting native americans students and programs if the name change goes through?  One Indian studies professor at UND was upset that UND may be trying to bribe the
Sioux tribe by getting more native american scholarships.  Bribing would be paying the chairman or tribal officials, which may have worked.  Giving more indian students the opportunity to get a college degree and get out of the poverty of the reservation is a good thing regardless of the motive.

 

Found this article in the Bismarck Tribune today on the nickname.


http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles ... 114028.txt

Very interesting:

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/speech/i ... _4_06.html