North Dakota Preps

Indians Alumni wrote:

scruffy wrote:My suggestion....If you don't like the Sioux, then don't go there or don't support them..

That is like saying, if you don't like what Bush is doing, don't pay attention to the news!

Great point

Indians Alumni wrote:

scruffy wrote:My suggestion....If you don't like the Sioux, then don't go there or don't support them..

That has got to be one of the dummest suggestions I have heard yet. So if I don't like the name and believe strongly that the use of the name Cartoonizes my anciestory I should just turn my cheek? Wow! You can't just jump in with your lame/ignorant suggestions without getting an earful!!

That is like saying, if you don't like what Bush is doing, don't pay attention to the news!

Cartoonizes?!?! who cares you dont see caucasians getting in an uproar about the team name and logo of the Mountaineers, and a logo isnt a cartoon, if the sioux logo had a running series on tv of its self making jokes and stuff then it would be a cartoon, but it is just a logo so get over it

sportsking09 wrote:

Indians Alumni wrote:

scruffy wrote:My suggestion....If you don't like the Sioux, then don't go there or don't support them..

That has got to be one of the dummest suggestions I have heard yet. So if I don't like the name and believe strongly that the use of the name Cartoonizes my anciestory I should just turn my cheek? Wow! You can't just jump in with your lame/ignorant suggestions without getting an earful!!

That is like saying, if you don't like what Bush is doing, don't pay attention to the news!

Cartoonizes?!?! who cares you dont see caucasians getting in an uproar about the team name and logo of the Mountaineers, and a logo isnt a cartoon, if the sioux logo had a running series on tv of its self making jokes and stuff then it would be a cartoon, but it is just a logo so get over it

well put

Geeze, 18 pages and you haven't solved this issue yet? You guys should have been able to solve most of the world's problems in 18 pages.

I am waiting to hear from the tribes. Is it offensive or do they feel exploited. Has that been answered yet.

If it is deamed offensive, then the name/logo needs to change.

If it is considered exploited, then UND cough some money, scholarships, etc.. up and the name stays.

That is what it boils down to.

Makotifarmguy wrote:Geeze, 18 pages and you haven't solved this issue yet? You guys should have been able to solve most of the world's problems in 18 pages.

I am waiting to hear from the tribes. Is it offensive or do they feel exploited. Has that been answered yet.

If it is deamed offensive, then the name/logo needs to change.

If it is considered exploited, then UND cough some money, scholarships, etc.. up and the name stays.

That is what it boils down to.

All been covered in the previous 18 pages, often more than once.

Roughrider wrote:

sportsking09 wrote:

Indians Alumni wrote:

scruffy wrote:My suggestion....If you don't like the Sioux, then don't go there or don't support them..

That has got to be one of the dummest suggestions I have heard yet. So if I don't like the name and believe strongly that the use of the name Cartoonizes my anciestory I should just turn my cheek? Wow! You can't just jump in with your lame/ignorant suggestions without getting an earful!!

That is like saying, if you don't like what Bush is doing, don't pay attention to the news!

Cartoonizes?!?! who cares you dont see caucasians getting in an uproar about the team name and logo of the Mountaineers, and a logo isnt a cartoon, if the sioux logo had a running series on tv of its self making jokes and stuff then it would be a cartoon, but it is just a logo so get over it

well put

X2. This is the dumbest arguement ever.

sportsking09 wrote:

Indians Alumni wrote:

scruffy wrote:My suggestion....If you don't like the Sioux, then don't go there or don't support them..

That has got to be one of the dummest suggestions I have heard yet. So if I don't like the name and believe strongly that the use of the name Cartoonizes my anciestory I should just turn my cheek? Wow! You can't just jump in with your lame/ignorant suggestions without getting an earful!!

That is like saying, if you don't like what Bush is doing, don't pay attention to the news!

Cartoonizes?!?! who cares you dont see caucasians getting in an uproar about the team name and logo of the Mountaineers, and a logo isnt a cartoon, if the sioux logo had a running series on tv of its self making jokes and stuff then it would be a cartoon, but it is just a logo so get over it

Yes it is cartoonized! It is not a ligitimate portrait of a Native American, so it is a cartoon. Check your definitions.

That is not the image that I want portraited when I think of my people. I think of people like Sitting Bull, not what someone drew up! And no I don't want the logo changed to Sitting Bull, I want it not used at all!

Mountaineers is not a race or a creed! So you cannot compare the two! Can you check Mountaineer when you are asked about race on a legal documents? So your statement is not valid in your arguement and dismissed!

Indians Alumni wrote: Can you check Mountaineer when you are asked about race on a legal documents? So your statement is not valid in your arguement and dismissed!

Indians Alumni-

Is the name Sioux on a legal document? You knew what he meant!!!!

Exactly, that is my point, and just my last two cents, the nickname and logo were not made up to be harmful or abusive towards anyone END OF STORY

You are still not winning the arguement! How does that legitimize the use of the name and logo? You can say you are honoring a race all you want, if the race being "Honored" is not honored, then get rid of it! If you hold our culture and race in high regards you honor us, then respect our wishes!

Your in the minority Indians Alumni, and I would bet the vote that is going to take place very soon on the reservation will show this. Just because you speak the loudest and the most doesn't mean you are right, and again I would bet you are representing the minority.

I can Guarantee that I am not the Minority!

Indians Alumni:

Guarantee? You have done a scientific poll of all voting members of the tribe and calculated a definitive result that is outside the potential margin of error? Or are you basing this on the conversations you have had with the people you associate with?

I am not saying you are in the minority, but I question how you can make such a guarantee when no vote has been taken of ALL tribal members.

Perhaps we'll get that vote if you believe what you read in the papers, at least for the Spirit Lake tribe. It would be interesting to get a better idea of the amount of support for and against the use the the Fighting Sioux nickname by members of the tribe. What percentage would it take for the tribe to change their opinion and offer it's support? 70/30? 90/10? I think it will be closer to 50/50.

I know I am not the only one who supports the name change, I just happen to be the loudest. I guess that is one of my attributes is to speak for what I strongly believe in! Like I stated in one of my first posts, Passivism is not one of my traits. I am the type to speak up if I see something wrong, I have no color, creed, or sexism in my decisions, it is right and wrong.

Bottom line, you will find that there are more non-supporters of the name, and UND is doing nothing to try and help themselves. I am sure they will do something the last year of their deferrment.

So far, I have seen a lot of the opposite. I have seen in the Grand Forks Herald blog, ignorance, I have seen that on this page, and that not get you any points for changing the minds of Native Americans. Native American people do not forget easily. I guess that is due to years of getting screwed over, and has become a part of our DNA.

Indians Alumni wrote:

and UND is doing nothing to try and help themselves. I am sure they will do something the last year of their deferrment.

That is NOT true. Back in November I was in Grand Forks an on a tour through Engelstad Arena with a friend who works there. There were several Native Americans that walked in about the same time I did. Dressed 'to the nines' and it was obvious they were persons of importance. They didn't get the nickel and dime tour, they were given a tour by the top dogs at Engelstad.

I am not sure who they were, but it seemed to me UND was trying to make some connections.

Now you know how I feel about the name, but I had to speak up because that quote above is not correct.

I don't think that anyone will ever deny that what has happened to native americans over the years was horrible, but these things happened a hundred years ago. I am just wondering at what point the pity party is going to stop or will this arguement continue from the native american people forever. I believe at some point you have to stand up and make your own breaks.

Perfectly and well put.

OldSchool wrote:I don't think that anyone will ever deny that what has happened to native americans over the years was horrible, but these things happened a hundred years ago. I am just wondering at what point the pity party is going to stop or will this arguement continue from the native american people forever. I believe at some point you have to stand up and make your own breaks.

Try getting way with saying that about Afro-Americans or Jewish Americans! Tell them that they need to get over it and move on. As a matter of fact, neither of these races where put on reservations and givin a snow balls chance to survive. Your government gave us blankets filled with small pox and spoiled food. If you don't think this substandard of health care goes on, take a walk into our clinics on the reservation. You will not see a regular doctor last more than a couple months. This is all by YOUR federal government and you expect us to trust that you all have our best interests? Don't think so, I was born at night but not last night!

There is no pity party! There is only right and wrong. People are not moscots or logos! They should have their wishes respected and that is that!

Yeah there are some that support the name, those may be the dancers you are talking about! So what is your point. Just because there are a handful that support the name, mean lets keep the name! I don't think so!

Indians Alumni wrote:

OldSchool wrote:I don't think that anyone will ever deny that what has happened to native americans over the years was horrible, but these things happened a hundred years ago. I am just wondering at what point the pity party is going to stop or will this arguement continue from the native american people forever. I believe at some point you have to stand up and make your own breaks.

Try getting way with saying that about Afro-Americans or Jewish Americans! Tell them that they need to get over it and move on. As a matter of fact, neither of these races where put on reservations and givin a snow balls chance to survive. Your government gave us blankets filled with small pox and spoiled food. If you don't think this substandard of health care goes on, take a walk into our clinics on the reservation. You will not see a regular doctor last more than a couple months. This is all by YOUR federal government and you expect us to trust that you all have our best interests? Don't think so, I was born at night but not last night!

There is no pity party! There is only right and wrong. People are not moscots or logos! They should have their wishes respected and that is that!

I like the part where you state "your government". Isn't it also your government. Think about it for a moment. That is half the problem you still think your getting suppressed over a hundred years later. The opportunities are out there for all native americans, but by in large you all want to live off, as you put it, "our government". Why are the clinics like that and why are we still being forced to provide this, that is my question. Time to start growing up and living like a big boy.

I think the point IA was trying to make was basically this. If it's not ok to use African-American, Jewish, or even Asian-Americans as mascot's, then why is it still ok to use Native Americans? My guess is because they don't have a powerful organization like the NAACP, or the Anti-Defamation League to take up the fight. Sadly the tribes that have the financial ability to do that are the ones that have used the selling of their imagery to make themselves wealthy, such as the Seminoles. The Sioux tribes are poor, rural and have little political voice.

We are not going to solve these problems on a message board. Keep it civil and informative, without getting personal please.

OldSchool wrote:

Indians Alumni wrote:

OldSchool wrote:I don't think that anyone will ever deny that what has happened to native americans over the years was horrible, but these things happened a hundred years ago. I am just wondering at what point the pity party is going to stop or will this arguement continue from the native american people forever. I believe at some point you have to stand up and make your own breaks.

Try getting way with saying that about Afro-Americans or Jewish Americans! Tell them that they need to get over it and move on. As a matter of fact, neither of these races where put on reservations and givin a snow balls chance to survive. Your government gave us blankets filled with small pox and spoiled food. If you don't think this substandard of health care goes on, take a walk into our clinics on the reservation. You will not see a regular doctor last more than a couple months. This is all by YOUR federal government and you expect us to trust that you all have our best interests? Don't think so, I was born at night but not last night!

There is no pity party! There is only right and wrong. People are not moscots or logos! They should have their wishes respected and that is that!

I like the part where you state "your government". Isn't it also your government. Think about it for a moment. That is half the problem you still think your getting suppressed over a hundred years later. The opportunities are out there for all native americans, but by in large you all want to live off, as you put it, "our government". Why are the clinics like that and why are we still being forced to provide this, that is my question. Time to start growing up and living like a big boy.

OK heres where I jump in. It's just total ignorance on your part to say that We all, meaning NA's, live off of the government. Sure there are a number that do but don't put us all in a group, that just perpetuates the ignorance. Are there no caucasions living off the government? Thats what I thought. As far as our health care, in order for us to have health care or business' like other communities we have to have a land base that's worth something. have you been to a rez? Theres a reason rez's are where they are, they are mostly worthless tracts of land that can't produce much crops or feed livestock. The one thing we have at Spirit Lake that could make us more stable is the lake. There are treaties which state we own the lake but guess what, since there are millions of tourist dollars at stake those treaties have mysteriously disappeared. So we cannot prove we own DL and there not a court in the land which will take our side. So all we can do is be poor,I guess.

nativegolfer wrote:

OldSchool wrote:

Indians Alumni wrote:

OldSchool wrote:I don't think that anyone will ever deny that what has happened to native americans over the years was horrible, but these things happened a hundred years ago. I am just wondering at what point the pity party is going to stop or will this arguement continue from the native american people forever. I believe at some point you have to stand up and make your own breaks.

Try getting way with saying that about Afro-Americans or Jewish Americans! Tell them that they need to get over it and move on. As a matter of fact, neither of these races where put on reservations and givin a snow balls chance to survive. Your government gave us blankets filled with small pox and spoiled food. If you don't think this substandard of health care goes on, take a walk into our clinics on the reservation. You will not see a regular doctor last more than a couple months. This is all by YOUR federal government and you expect us to trust that you all have our best interests? Don't think so, I was born at night but not last night!

There is no pity party! There is only right and wrong. People are not moscots or logos! They should have their wishes respected and that is that!

I like the part where you state "your government". Isn't it also your government. Think about it for a moment. That is half the problem you still think your getting suppressed over a hundred years later. The opportunities are out there for all native americans, but by in large you all want to live off, as you put it, "our government". Why are the clinics like that and why are we still being forced to provide this, that is my question. Time to start growing up and living like a big boy.

OK heres where I jump in. It's just total ignorance on your part to say that We all, meaning NA's, live off of the government. Are there no caucasions living off the government? Thats what I thought. As far as our health care, in order for us to have health care or business' like other communities we have to have a land base that's worth something. have you been to a rez? Theres a reason rez's are where they are, they are mostly worthless tracts of land that can't produce much crops or feed livestock. The one thing we have at Spirit Lake that could make us more stable is the lake. There are treaties which state we own the lake but guess what, since there are millions of tourist dollars at stake those treaties have mysteriously disappeared.

I like the part where you say that I said all NA, and get defensive. I said "by and large," Not all, so relax, and the last time I checked I didn't have to pay anything to go catch fish on Devils Lake. Set up a bait shop or something to make money off of tourists, and make a living, or are you saying that if these treaties were available that we would have to pay to catch fish? Just wondering because there is plenty of opportunity to set up business on the rez to attract business. I suppose I may have to start a new topic on the issue of Devils Lake tourism as we are getting a little off subject.

OldSchool wrote:

nativegolfer wrote:

OldSchool wrote:

Indians Alumni wrote:

OldSchool wrote:I don't think that anyone will ever deny that what has happened to native americans over the years was horrible, but these things happened a hundred years ago. I am just wondering at what point the pity party is going to stop or will this arguement continue from the native american people forever. I believe at some point you have to stand up and make your own breaks.

Try getting way with saying that about Afro-Americans or Jewish Americans! Tell them that they need to get over it and move on. As a matter of fact, neither of these races where put on reservations and givin a snow balls chance to survive.

a matter of fact jews sufferend only what 50 -60 years ago, african americans about 125-150 years ago, native americans about 200-250 years, im not saying it is alright to critisize native americans, but i am just showing you that jews suffering pretty recent, african americans suffering recent but kinda old, native americans are the oldest suffering out of the three mentioned yet native americans complain the most and want the most out of our government because of something that happened 200-250 years ago. im not saying it wasnt wrong of what the government did, but its been a while and i think its about time we start moving along now

sportsking09 wrote:

OldSchool wrote:

nativegolfer wrote:

OldSchool wrote:

Indians Alumni wrote:

OldSchool wrote:I don't think that anyone will ever deny that what has happened to native americans over the years was horrible, but these things happened a hundred years ago. I am just wondering at what point the pity party is going to stop or will this arguement continue from the native american people forever. I believe at some point you have to stand up and make your own breaks.

Try getting way with saying that about Afro-Americans or Jewish Americans! Tell them that they need to get over it and move on. As a matter of fact, neither of these races where put on reservations and givin a snow balls chance to survive.

a matter of fact jews sufferend only what 50 -60 years ago, african americans about 125-150 years ago, native americans about 200-250 years, im not saying it is alright to critisize native americans, but i am just showing you that jews suffering pretty recent, african americans suffering recent but kinda old, native americans are the oldest suffering out of the three mentioned yet native americans complain the most and want the most out of our government because of something that happened 200-250 years ago. im not saying it wasnt wrong of what the government did, but its been a while and i think its about time we start moving along now

ever heard of Al Sharpton and the NAACP? Yes they are complaining and want reparations for slavery