Fighting Sioux?????? the 2nd

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Postby nativegolfer » Wed May 09, 2007 1:41 pm

always a sports season wrote:This question is taking a little different road and I hope it's okay and doesn't get nasty.  In a conversation about this topic with someone last night, I asked what is different about the Seminoles and the use of that mascot.  Why has that been deemed okay?  The reply was "The University paid big bucks to the tribe so that the name could be used." Is there any truth to that?  I really have no idea.  Unfortunately, money does talk and I think if we didn't have all the money donated by Englestad and his attitude that the name couldn't be changed, UND wouldn't be having this controversy - UND would have decided to change it's mascot name. 

Bingo, we have a winner.  That's exactly what it boils down to. 
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Postby Roughrider » Wed May 09, 2007 6:34 pm

nativegolfer wrote:
always a sports season wrote:This question is taking a little different road and I hope it's okay and doesn't get nasty.  In a conversation about this topic with someone last night, I asked what is different about the Seminoles and the use of that mascot.  Why has that been deemed okay?  The reply was "The University paid big bucks to the tribe so that the name could be used." Is there any truth to that?  I really have no idea.  Unfortunately, money does talk and I think if we didn't have all the money donated by Englestad and his attitude that the name couldn't be changed, UND wouldn't be having this controversy - UND would have decided to change it's mascot name. 

Bingo, we have a winner.  That's exactly what it boils down to. 

okay, so what your saying is that if we bribe the natives, everything is okay
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Postby nativegolfer » Wed May 09, 2007 6:59 pm

Roughrider wrote:
nativegolfer wrote:
always a sports season wrote:This question is taking a little different road and I hope it's okay and doesn't get nasty.  In a conversation about this topic with someone last night, I asked what is different about the Seminoles and the use of that mascot.  Why has that been deemed okay?  The reply was "The University paid big bucks to the tribe so that the name could be used." Is there any truth to that?  I really have no idea.  Unfortunately, money does talk and I think if we didn't have all the money donated by Englestad and his attitude that the name couldn't be changed, UND wouldn't be having this controversy - UND would have decided to change it's mascot name. 

Bingo, we have a winner.  That's exactly what it boils down to. 

okay, so what your saying is that if we bribe the natives, everything is okay
If you think those millions being "donated" by Englestad aren't bribes than your'e either blind or ignorant!
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Postby Roughrider » Wed May 09, 2007 7:02 pm

nativegolfer wrote:
Roughrider wrote:
nativegolfer wrote:
always a sports season wrote:This question is taking a little different road and I hope it's okay and doesn't get nasty.  In a conversation about this topic with someone last night, I asked what is different about the Seminoles and the use of that mascot.  Why has that been deemed okay?  The reply was "The University paid big bucks to the tribe so that the name could be used." Is there any truth to that?  I really have no idea.  Unfortunately, money does talk and I think if we didn't have all the money donated by Englestad and his attitude that the name couldn't be changed, UND wouldn't be having this controversy - UND would have decided to change it's mascot name. 

Bingo, we have a winner.  That's exactly what it boils down to. 

okay, so what your saying is that if we bribe the natives, everything is okay
If you think those millions being "donated" by Englestad aren't bribes than your'e either blind or ignorant!


yeah, i see what your saying but all i have to ask you is what is your point. im not talking about that, im talking about the school bribing the natives to get their way like what always a sports season said about florida state and the seminoles

 
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Postby Indians Alumni » Thu May 10, 2007 5:31 am

Roughrider wrote:
nativegolfer wrote:
Roughrider wrote:
nativegolfer wrote:
always a sports season wrote:This question is taking a little different road and I hope it's okay and doesn't get nasty.  In a conversation about this topic with someone last night, I asked what is different about the Seminoles and the use of that mascot.  Why has that been deemed okay?  The reply was "The University paid big bucks to the tribe so that the name could be used." Is there any truth to that?  I really have no idea.  Unfortunately, money does talk and I think if we didn't have all the money donated by Englestad and his attitude that the name couldn't be changed, UND wouldn't be having this controversy - UND would have decided to change it's mascot name. 

Bingo, we have a winner.  That's exactly what it boils down to. 

okay, so what your saying is that if we bribe the natives, everything is okay
If you think those millions being "donated" by Englestad aren't bribes than your'e either blind or ignorant!


yeah, i see what your saying but all i have to ask you is what is your point. im not talking about that, im talking about the school bribing the natives to get their way like what always a sports season said about florida state and the seminoles

 


Florida State does not bribe the tribes, they actually work with the tribes.  helping with money in programs, scholarships, etc.  UND has done none of this!


What if UND made it Mandatory for all students to take a Native American Culture class.  I mean make it a requirement to graduate, it is the least they can do if they are going to keep going against the NCAA and keep the name.  How about a little cultural sensitivity. 

Don't get me wrong I think the name should still be changed, but there are things that UND can show or do to help themselves look like they are trying. I mean them just saying they are honoring us is not good enough.  I really don't feel honored nor to others I have asked 
Last edited by Indians Alumni on Thu May 10, 2007 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby cdub1 » Thu May 10, 2007 1:24 pm

Indians Alumni wrote:
Roughrider wrote:
nativegolfer wrote:
Roughrider wrote:
nativegolfer wrote:
always a sports season wrote:This question is taking a little different road and I hope it's okay and doesn't get nasty.  In a conversation about this topic with someone last night, I asked what is different about the Seminoles and the use of that mascot.  Why has that been deemed okay?  The reply was "The University paid big bucks to the tribe so that the name could be used." Is there any truth to that?  I really have no idea.  Unfortunately, money does talk and I think if we didn't have all the money donated by Englestad and his attitude that the name couldn't be changed, UND wouldn't be having this controversy - UND would have decided to change it's mascot name. 

Bingo, we have a winner.  That's exactly what it boils down to. 

okay, so what your saying is that if we bribe the natives, everything is okay
If you think those millions being "donated" by Englestad aren't bribes than your'e either blind or ignorant!


yeah, i see what your saying but all i have to ask you is what is your point. im not talking about that, im talking about the school bribing the natives to get their way like what always a sports season said about florida state and the seminoles

 


Florida State does not bribe the tribes, they actually work with the tribes.  helping with money in programs, scholarships, etc.  UND has done none of this!


What if UND made it Mandatory for all students to take a Native American Culture class.  I mean make it a requirement to graduate, it is the least they can do if they are going to keep going against the NCAA and keep the name.  How about a little cultural sensitivity. 

Don't get me wrong I think the name should still be changed, but there are things that UND can show or do to help themselves look like they are trying. I mean them just saying they are honoring us is not good enough.  I really don't feel honored nor to others I have asked 



even though that sounds like a decent idea it wouldn't help a lot of people in their educations i see where you are coming from though
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Postby baseball18 » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:26 pm

Ok I don't get why people make this such a big deal... it's just a nickname!  We have more imperative subjects to worry about like crime, the war in iraq, sexual predators in our own neighborhoods, feeding our families, life in general..... the list goes on and on.
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Postby cdub1 » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:31 pm

baseball18 wrote:Ok I don't get why people make this such a big deal... it's just a nickname!  We have more imperative subjects to worry about like crime, the war in iraq, sexual predators in our own neighborhoods, feeding our families, life in general..... the list goes on and on.

racism is a big deal and that is how many native americans view it
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Postby BBall dominator » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:03 pm

ok to see if the world is more or less racist try this w/ different groups of people I have....if someone give asks you drink  respond w/  "I'm irish what do you think" see if you get a laught you'll get a few but respond w/ "i'm native what do you think" see which one gets more laughs I've done them both because my friend told me you guess which one people laughed at more......racism is alive and well guys if natives don't feel respected by the name why keep it isn't respect why the name still stands??
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Postby cityleaguer » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:17 pm

I actually grew up on the reservation, being a white kid, it wasn't necessarily normal for me to have all NA friends but I did, and I enjoyed every game I went to and the pride that was shown was incredible especially where I grew up in Montana....where our mascot was also a tribal logo.....However, being a small town people didn't give it half a thought like they do for the Sioux, b/c well.....the Sioux are popular

I just find it hard to believe that NA's are expecting some kind of feeling of relief if the name is changed, if it emotionally impacts them, then if the name does change they should feel the same degree of hurt by watching the Redskins play every sunday, and I really don't think they will!
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Postby Indians Alumni » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:56 pm

cityleaguer wrote:I actually grew up on the reservation, being a white kid, it wasn't necessarily normal for me to have all NA friends but I did, and I enjoyed every game I went to and the pride that was shown was incredible especially where I grew up in Montana....where our mascot was also a tribal logo.....However, being a small town people didn't give it half a thought like they do for the Sioux, b/c well.....the Sioux are popular

I just find it hard to believe that NA's are expecting some kind of feeling of relief if the name is changed, if it emotionally impacts them, then if the name does change they should feel the same degree of hurt by watching the Redskins play every sunday, and I really don't think they will!

It is not an emotional relief, it is wanting to be treated as an equal!  There are several protesters of the Redskins, the Cleveland Indians, they just aren't going to show it on ESPN or FSN. 
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Postby nativegolfer » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:39 pm

Check this out: http://asunews.astate.edu/MascotRecomm.htm

 

This is the kind of thinking a progressive Instition of Higher Ed is supposed to engage in unlike the backward hillbillies who are being held hostage by a Nazi Lovers money! 
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Postby Stromer » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:32 pm

nativegolfer wrote:Check this out: http://asunews.astate.edu/MascotRecomm.htm

 

This is the kind of thinking a progressive Instition of Higher Ed is supposed to engage in unlike the backward hillbillies who are being held hostage by a Nazi Lovers money! 

And it is statements like this that discredit your side of the argument.
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Postby nativegolfer » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:18 am

Stromer wrote:
nativegolfer wrote:Check this out: http://asunews.astate.edu/MascotRecomm.htm

 

This is the kind of thinking a progressive Instition of Higher Ed is supposed to engage in unlike the backward hillbillies who are being held hostage by a Nazi Lovers money! 

And it is statements like this that discredit your side of the argument.

The hillbilly part I'll admit was uncalled for but the nazi part is 100% true and you all know it.  By the way, I always wondered why Potts left as Chancellor of the NDUS.  A clear reason was never given.  This answers that in a hurry. 
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Postby Stromer » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:54 am

nativegolfer wrote:
Stromer wrote:
nativegolfer wrote:Check this out: http://asunews.astate.edu/MascotRecomm.htm

 

This is the kind of thinking a progressive Instition of Higher Ed is supposed to engage in unlike the backward hillbillies who are being held hostage by a Nazi Lovers money! 

And it is statements like this that discredit your side of the argument.

The hillbilly part I'll admit was uncalled for but the nazi part is 100% true and you all know it.  By the way, I always wondered why Potts left as Chancellor of the NDUS.  A clear reason was never given.  This answers that in a hurry. 

I guess I don't follow.  Potts left as Chancellor because of internal issues.  He had frequent clashes with the prez from NDSU, as well as some with other presidents.  It got to a point where the whole NDUS system was drowning in conflict.  He left to take another job where he wouldn't have to put up with some of the stuff that had happened to him in ND.  He didn't leave because he was opposed to keeping the name.  The reason he is on the side calling for change down in ASU is because he saw the debate that raged up here and doesn't want to have to deal with that again.  This job is supposed to keep him away from headaches and he doesn't want to create them.
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Postby Stromer » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:57 am

nativegolfer wrote:
Stromer wrote:
nativegolfer wrote:Check this out: http://asunews.astate.edu/MascotRecomm.htm

 

This is the kind of thinking a progressive Instition of Higher Ed is supposed to engage in unlike the backward hillbillies who are being held hostage by a Nazi Lovers money! 

And it is statements like this that discredit your side of the argument.

The hillbilly part I'll admit was uncalled for but the nazi part is 100% true and you all know it.  By the way, I always wondered why Potts left as Chancellor of the NDUS.  A clear reason was never given.  This answers that in a hurry. 

As for the Nazi part, yes it is true.  However, his view on the logo is shared by the majority of the population.  Thus his Nazi background doesn't mean a thing in the argument.  He might be the money backer to this fight, but he is not alone in the fight.
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Postby nativegolfer » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:02 am

Stromer wrote:
nativegolfer wrote:
Stromer wrote:
nativegolfer wrote:Check this out: http://asunews.astate.edu/MascotRecomm.htm

 

This is the kind of thinking a progressive Instition of Higher Ed is supposed to engage in unlike the backward hillbillies who are being held hostage by a Nazi Lovers money! 

And it is statements like this that discredit your side of the argument.

The hillbilly part I'll admit was uncalled for but the nazi part is 100% true and you all know it.  By the way, I always wondered why Potts left as Chancellor of the NDUS.  A clear reason was never given.  This answers that in a hurry. 

As for the Nazi part, yes it is true.  However, his view on the logo is shared by the majority of the population.  Thus his Nazi background doesn't mean a thing in the argument.  He might be the money backer to this fight, but he is not alone in the fight.
Money talks, BS walks and guess who doesn't have the money in this issue. 
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Postby Indians Alumni » Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:48 pm

I would have to step in and say that his love of Nazi's has some substance on his point of view.  Nazi's believed that they were far superior to other races.  So with that said, I would have to think that he would share the same kind of belief!  He doesn't have respect for the Native American race to let the Mascot go!  He isn't doing it to "Honor" us, he has a hefty wallet and he is playing UND like a fiddle! 

Get Rid of the mascot, it only causes hostility among Native Americans, If any other race where involved it would have been changed by now!  Just because we are extreme minorities it is like we don't count!  We have a right to freedom of racism just like anyone else.  Who determines racism.  I think it would be the people who are offended!!!
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Postby Saucesauer » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:47 pm

as cool as the logo and mascot is they should just chanfe it but keep the name like fighting sioux with a cowboy or somthing because the mascot is depicted as a native american

 so if they changed it this should all go away

we would all know that sioux ment a tribe but everyone on here aginst the name say that sioux is a word the french used to discriminate

 so if it was go back to your tribes and go back to your heritage forget about the word sioux completly but it is our heritage whether it is good or bad to know and use the word sioux
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Postby Indians Alumni » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:10 pm

Saucesauer wrote:as cool as the logo and mascot is they should just chanfe it but keep the name like fighting sioux with a cowboy or somthing because the mascot is depicted as a native american

 so if they changed it this should all go away

we would all know that sioux ment a tribe but everyone on here aginst the name say that sioux is a word the french used to discriminate

 so if it was go back to your tribes and go back to your heritage forget about the word sioux completly but it is our heritage whether it is good or bad to know and use the word sioux


That is the dumbest thing I have read so far!  Fighting Sioux with a Cowboy???  and Go back to my tribe and heritage, are you trying to tell me that I should stick to the reservation?  Well, ignorant comments like that do not deserve more time than it takes to write this!!  Your arguement is weak!!!
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Postby Saucesauer » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:24 pm

my argument is weak but most of the native americans are fitting into the sterotyps to and that may be why there is still stuff like that in america you and the other people on this site may have done stuff with your lives but there are way more who havnt the other day i gave a native american a ride to a church from kum and go because he was on cruthches and i felt obligated and this is the dead honest truth he smelled like listerine and all he talked about was the check he gets tommorrow and getting kicked out of a park by the police now i feel more people would respect your tribe and beliefs if you would clean up your own people before you try and clean up the world or in this case UND  if you cant take care of your own people why should others give you the time of day!
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Postby nativegolfer » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:24 pm

Saucesauer wrote:my argument is weak but most of the native americans are fitting into the sterotyps to and that may be why there is still stuff like that in america you and the other people on this site may have done stuff with your lives but there are way more who havnt the other day i gave a native american a ride to a church from kum and go because he was on cruthches and i felt obligated and this is the dead honest truth he smelled like listerine and all he talked about was the check he gets tommorrow and getting kicked out of a park by the police now i feel more people would respect your tribe and beliefs if you would clean up your own people before you try and clean up the world or in this case UND  if you cant take care of your own people why should others give you the time of day!

WOW!  No comment, I guess.  Just, WOW and shakin my head.
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Postby project-pat » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:32 pm

Saucesauer wrote:my argument is weak but most of the native americans are fitting into the sterotyps to and that may be why there is still stuff like that in america you and the other people on this site may have done stuff with your lives but there are way more who havnt the other day i gave a native american a ride to a church from kum and go because he was on cruthches and i felt obligated and this is the dead honest truth he smelled like listerine and all he talked about was the check he gets tommorrow and getting kicked out of a park by the police now i feel more people would respect your tribe and beliefs if you would clean up your own people before you try and clean up the world or in this case UND  if you cant take care of your own people why should others give you the time of day!

I don't think that has anything to do with it. I'm actually going to side with nativegolfer on that argument. I think it's just a case of the "Fighting sioux" being an honor to the tribe and the tribe taking it the complete opposite way. I've done alot of thinking about the subject, and if enough people find something offensive, then it should be changed, end of story.
Last edited by project-pat on Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby nativegolfer » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:16 pm

project-pat wrote:
Saucesauer wrote:my argument is weak but most of the native americans are fitting into the sterotyps to and that may be why there is still stuff like that in america you and the other people on this site may have done stuff with your lives but there are way more who havnt the other day i gave a native american a ride to a church from kum and go because he was on cruthches and i felt obligated and this is the dead honest truth he smelled like listerine and all he talked about was the check he gets tommorrow and getting kicked out of a park by the police now i feel more people would respect your tribe and beliefs if you would clean up your own people before you try and clean up the world or in this case UND  if you cant take care of your own people why should others give you the time of day!

I don't think that has anything to do with it. I'm actually going to side with nativegolfer on that argument. I think it's just a case of the "Fighting sioux" being an honor to the tribe and the tribe taking it the complete opposite way. I've done alot of thinking about the subject, and if enough people find something offensive, then it should be changed, end of story.
Huh, I'll be damned.  Welcome aboard Pat. 
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Postby ndfbfan » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:21 pm

Saucesauer wrote:my argument is weak but most of the native americans are fitting into the sterotyps to and that may be why there is still stuff like that in america you and the other people on this site may have done stuff with your lives but there are way more who havnt the other day i gave a native american a ride to a church from kum and go because he was on cruthches and i felt obligated and this is the dead honest truth he smelled like listerine and all he talked about was the check he gets tommorrow and getting kicked out of a park by the police now i feel more people would respect your tribe and beliefs if you would clean up your own people before you try and clean up the world or in this case UND  if you cant take care of your own people why should others give you the time of day!
There are a heck of alot more white people who don't do a thing with their lives. And that native american you picked up from Kum n Go could have just as easily been a white person. Your argument is weak. Do you really want me to tell you what the biggest problem is with your response?? It's people like you who say "your people". That just continues to keep people separated. How about "we" can help or "we" can take care of. This isn't a political forum so I'll quit there. The next time you want to make a comment on here, at least have the decency to present a legitimate and factual argument.
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