North Dakota Preps

when people don't think Championships matter----or should not be measured in

Gilbert (Cavs owner), quote--unquote

"This is not about franchise value. This is not about the payroll we spent or didn't spend. This is driven solely on the motivational factor of delivering a championship to this city. Period. We believe this is LeBron's goal, it's Chris Grant's goal, it'll be our head coach's goal. We're just going to keep going until we get there."

winner-within wrote:when people don't think Championships matter----or should not be measured in

Gilbert (Cavs owner), quote--unquote

"This is not about franchise value. This is not about the payroll we spent or didn't spend. This is driven solely on the motivational factor of delivering a championship to this city. Period. We believe this is LeBron's goal, it's Chris Grant's goal, it'll be our head coach's goal. We're just going to keep going until we get there."

You really don't comprehend very well. We said that they shouldn't be the main factor in measuring a player. They can play a role but not be the big deciding factor. It they were, Dan Marino would be just another average joe quaterback.

Obviously, winning the championship is the main thing an organization cares about.

Indy5 wrote:

winner-within wrote:when people don't think Championships matter----or should not be measured in

Gilbert (Cavs owner), quote--unquote

"This is not about franchise value. This is not about the payroll we spent or didn't spend. This is driven solely on the motivational factor of delivering a championship to this city. Period. We believe this is LeBron's goal, it's Chris Grant's goal, it'll be our head coach's goal. We're just going to keep going until we get there."

You really don't comprehend very well. We said that they shouldn't be the main factor in measuring a player. They can play a role but not be the big deciding factor. It they were, Dan Marino would be just another average joe quaterback.

Obviously, winning the championship is the main thing an organization cares about.

If Kobe is not that great, with his stats and 5 rings then Dan is "just another average QB" you walked your self into that one!

winner-within wrote:

Indy5 wrote:

winner-within wrote:when people don't think Championships matter----or should not be measured in

Gilbert (Cavs owner), quote--unquote

"This is not about franchise value. This is not about the payroll we spent or didn't spend. This is driven solely on the motivational factor of delivering a championship to this city. Period. We believe this is LeBron's goal, it's Chris Grant's goal, it'll be our head coach's goal. We're just going to keep going until we get there."

You really don't comprehend very well. We said that they shouldn't be the main factor in measuring a player. They can play a role but not be the big deciding factor. It they were, Dan Marino would be just another average joe quaterback.

Obviously, winning the championship is the main thing an organization cares about.

If Kobe is not that great, with his stats and 5 rings then Dan is "just another average QB" you walked your self into that one!

I never said Kobe isn't great. I think LeBron is a better player that was unfortuante to be in a bad situation. And I don't care if you say it's his fault for taking an extension. You have to remember about that time, they had gone to the finals once and had been deep in the playoffs a lot. There was a bright future at that point.

Indy5 wrote:

winner-within wrote:

Indy5 wrote:

winner-within wrote:when people don't think Championships matter----or should not be measured in

Gilbert (Cavs owner), quote--unquote

"This is not about franchise value. This is not about the payroll we spent or didn't spend. This is driven solely on the motivational factor of delivering a championship to this city. Period. We believe this is LeBron's goal, it's Chris Grant's goal, it'll be our head coach's goal. We're just going to keep going until we get there."

You really don't comprehend very well. We said that they shouldn't be the main factor in measuring a player. They can play a role but not be the big deciding factor. It they were, Dan Marino would be just another average joe quaterback.

Obviously, winning the championship is the main thing an organization cares about.

If Kobe is not that great, with his stats and 5 rings then Dan is "just another average QB" you walked your self into that one!

I never said Kobe isn't great. I think LeBron is a better player that was unfortuante to be in a bad situation. And I don't care if you say it's his fault for taking an extension. You have to remember about that time, they had gone to the finals once and had been deep in the playoffs a lot. There was a bright future at that point.

the only bright future in Cleavland for LeBron is July 1st....it is like the stud that decided to stay on the reservation instead of leaving to better his future....dont you get it ....HE stayed in OHIO, they didn't trap him there...I actually pictured them being in the finals last year and this year...but no, they bombed...because of MO and company no I would blame Gilbert (stingy and not ready for the big time) build a roster like Boston and L. A. 1superstar..2 or 3 good guys.....1 or two fighters....3 or 4 role players... get some length and hire a couple of rebounders its the only way to make it down the stretch and yes you did say Kobe wasnt great....my interpretation of your take along with a few others was that Kobe was almost Role Player material surround by god (shaq) and Moses (phil)

winner-within wrote:the only bright future in Cleavland for LeBron is July 1st....it is like the stud that decided to stay on the reservation instead of leaving to better his future....dont you get it ....HE stayed in OHIO, they didn't trap him there...I actually pictured them being in the finals last year and this year...but no, they bombed...because of MO and company no I would blame Gilbert (stingy and not ready for the big time) build a roster like Boston and L. A. 1superstar..2 or 3 good guys.....1 or two fighters....3 or 4 role players... get some length and hire a couple of rebounders its the only way to make it down the stretch and yes you did say Kobe wasnt great....my interpretation of your take along with a few others was that Kobe was almost Role Player material surround by god (shaq) and Moses (phil)

I'm not sure if the first line is a joke or serious opposition to my post. I stated that when he signed the extension there was a bright future.

And your interpretation is wrong. Kobe wasn't a role player on those teams, but they still wouldn't have won without Shaq. Shaq wasn't god, but he was probably the best player in the league at that time. We all know Kobe is a great player, but great players can't win it alone. Kobe won with Shaq and with Gasol. Wade won with Shaq. LeBron hasn't won because who has been his star partner? Mo? Washed up Shaq? Jamison? (who isn't what he was a few years ago)

Indy5 wrote:

winner-within wrote:the only bright future in Cleavland for LeBron is July 1st....it is like the stud that decided to stay on the reservation instead of leaving to better his future....dont you get it ....HE stayed in OHIO, they didn't trap him there...I actually pictured them being in the finals last year and this year...but no, they bombed...because of MO and company no I would blame Gilbert (stingy and not ready for the big time) build a roster like Boston and L. A. 1superstar..2 or 3 good guys.....1 or two fighters....3 or 4 role players... get some length and hire a couple of rebounders its the only way to make it down the stretch and yes you did say Kobe wasnt great....my interpretation of your take along with a few others was that Kobe was almost Role Player material surround by god (shaq) and Moses (phil)

I'm not sure if the first line is a joke or serious opposition to my post. I stated that when he signed the extension there was a bright future.

And your interpretation is wrong. Kobe wasn't a role player on those teams, but they still wouldn't have won without Shaq. Shaq wasn't god, but he was probably the best player in the league at that time. We all know Kobe is a great player, but great players can't win it alone. Kobe won with Shaq and with Gasol. Wade won with Shaq. LeBron hasn't won because who has been his star partner? Mo? Washed up Shaq? Jamison? (who isn't what he was a few years ago)

Shaq is a monster who never made a shot from more than 5 feet out......he was literally pitiful at free throws, he never once played the whole season for the Lakers and he is not on my list of top ten ever's
he is not the reason LA won all the championship, he like Kobe is part of the reason but Kobe and Wade being younger played a bigger part in getting the rings than shaq. Great players can win it alone 2 superstars rarely works any way unless one is on his way out....Duncan,Robinson...Kobe, Shaq...wade, shaq...its like this, even two good players cant get it done...Stockton, Malone...Ewing, Starks...Dirk,Kidd it takes that one warrior and a supporting cast...Kobe..Magic...Micheal...Bird...Hakeem...Lebron I will admit hasn't had a good supporting cast and I don't measure him by rings, YET!! with his free agency coming this summer he'd best make the right moves to put a ring on to become one of the greats.

you don't consider Shaq a Warrior? Guy was the most feared player in the league for 10 years...and in those 3 rings that Kobe won with his amazingness that is unmatched by the rest of the world, who was the NBA finals MVP...Shaq, in all 3.

The Schwab wrote:you don't consider Shaq a Warrior? Guy was the most feared player in the league for 10 years...and in those 3 rings that Kobe won with his amazingness that is unmatched by the rest of the world, who was the NBA finals MVP...Shaq, in all 3.

I consider shaq a Monster (I SAID THAT) not a Warrior...Wilt was twice the machine and so was Russel...Duncan is twice the center and has ten times the longevity...Shaq is like a big draft Horse, he pulled hard for a few years and then out to the pasture.
He had no game...you guys say Kobe is lacking on game and give Shaq all the credit for the rings...that's truly hilarious....
7 feet tall and 385...turn around and dunk it....finish last to the other end and play absolutely no D...then do it again...miss every free throw...and take the glory....no,
Shaq said KOBE was the "best player in the league" at the time... shaq (at the time) was the one of the best big man in the league...but BIG was all he had.

winner-within wrote:

The Schwab wrote:you don't consider Shaq a Warrior? Guy was the most feared player in the league for 10 years...and in those 3 rings that Kobe won with his amazingness that is unmatched by the rest of the world, who was the NBA finals MVP...Shaq, in all 3.

I consider shaq a Monster (I SAID THAT) not a Warrior...Wilt was twice the machine and so was Russel...Duncan is twice the center and has ten times the longevity...Shaq is like a big draft Horse, he pulled hard for a few years and then out to the pasture.
He had no game...you guys say Kobe is lacking on game and give Shaq all the credit for the rings...that's truly hilarious....
7 feet tall and 385...turn around and dunk it....finish last to the other end and play absolutely no D...then do it again...miss every free throw...and take the glory....no,
Shaq said KOBE was the "best player in the league" at the time... shaq (at the time) was the one of the best big man in the league...but BIG was all he had.

Your going to rip on Shaq for being bigger than his opposition. When Wilt played the only one center that was within 6 inches of him that he played was Russell, Wilt has 1 ring Shaq has 4.

The Schwab wrote:

winner-within wrote:

The Schwab wrote:you don't consider Shaq a Warrior? Guy was the most feared player in the league for 10 years...and in those 3 rings that Kobe won with his amazingness that is unmatched by the rest of the world, who was the NBA finals MVP...Shaq, in all 3.

I consider shaq a Monster (I SAID THAT) not a Warrior...Wilt was twice the machine and so was Russel...Duncan is twice the center and has ten times the longevity...Shaq is like a big draft Horse, he pulled hard for a few years and then out to the pasture.
He had no game...you guys say Kobe is lacking on game and give Shaq all the credit for the rings...that's truly hilarious....
7 feet tall and 385...turn around and dunk it....finish last to the other end and play absolutely no D...then do it again...miss every free throw...and take the glory....no,
Shaq said KOBE was the "best player in the league" at the time... shaq (at the time) was the one of the best big man in the league...but BIG was all he had.

Your going to rip on Shaq for being bigger than his opposition. When Wilt played the only one center that was within 6 inches of him that he played was Russell, Wilt has 1 ring Shaq has 4.

I'm not Ripin on shaq I'd be scared of him too if he was coming to town...point is he had no finesse...he tore down hoops and backboards and then took his dominance to the next game....but his dominance wasn't his 7 feet tall it was his 7 feet around his shoulders.... height with Shaq, Big baby, Barkley, Oakley, Moses Malone Karl Malone, didn't mean anything its there foundation and leg strength along with there shoulders and chest....
Kareem, Hakeem, Robinson, KG, Wilt, Russel, Ewing, they all played less physical and actually developed trade marks with there moves and game. Shaq was a bull dozer...you don't argue with a bull dozer

winner-within wrote:

The Schwab wrote:

winner-within wrote:

The Schwab wrote:you don't consider Shaq a Warrior? Guy was the most feared player in the league for 10 years...and in those 3 rings that Kobe won with his amazingness that is unmatched by the rest of the world, who was the NBA finals MVP...Shaq, in all 3.

I consider shaq a Monster (I SAID THAT) not a Warrior...Wilt was twice the machine and so was Russel...Duncan is twice the center and has ten times the longevity...Shaq is like a big draft Horse, he pulled hard for a few years and then out to the pasture.
He had no game...you guys say Kobe is lacking on game and give Shaq all the credit for the rings...that's truly hilarious....
7 feet tall and 385...turn around and dunk it....finish last to the other end and play absolutely no D...then do it again...miss every free throw...and take the glory....no,
Shaq said KOBE was the "best player in the league" at the time... shaq (at the time) was the one of the best big man in the league...but BIG was all he had.

Your going to rip on Shaq for being bigger than his opposition. When Wilt played the only one center that was within 6 inches of him that he played was Russell, Wilt has 1 ring Shaq has 4.

I'm not Ripin on shaq I'd be scared of him too if he was coming to town...point is he had no finesse...he tore down hoops and backboards and then took his dominance to the next game....but his dominance wasn't his 7 feet tall it was his 7 feet around his shoulders.... height with Shaq, Big baby, Barkley, Oakley, Moses Malone Karl Malone, didn't mean anything its there foundation and leg strength along with there shoulders and chest....
Kareem, Hakeem, Robinson, KG, Wilt, Russel, Ewing, they all played less physical and actually developed trade marks with there moves and game. Shaq was a bull dozer...you don't argue with a bull dozer

Ok, so because Shaq was a monster no one could handle he isn't worthy of the glory that Wilt or Russell or Hakeem receive? Finesse doesn't matter if you can physically dominate. I'm a little surprised you don't love Shaq, seeing how you love Howard. Howard is a more athletic version of Shaq in his prime. Howard is awful from the line (doesn't look as stupid as Shaq, but results are no better), he has no jumper, and he really doesn't have any post moves. He dunks and with power, like Shaq.

Indy5 wrote:

winner-within wrote:

The Schwab wrote:

winner-within wrote:

The Schwab wrote:you don't consider Shaq a Warrior? Guy was the most feared player in the league for 10 years...and in those 3 rings that Kobe won with his amazingness that is unmatched by the rest of the world, who was the NBA finals MVP...Shaq, in all 3.

I consider shaq a Monster (I SAID THAT) not a Warrior...Wilt was twice the machine and so was Russel...Duncan is twice the center and has ten times the longevity...Shaq is like a big draft Horse, he pulled hard for a few years and then out to the pasture.
He had no game...you guys say Kobe is lacking on game and give Shaq all the credit for the rings...that's truly hilarious....
7 feet tall and 385...turn around and dunk it....finish last to the other end and play absolutely no D...then do it again...miss every free throw...and take the glory....no,
Shaq said KOBE was the "best player in the league" at the time... shaq (at the time) was the one of the best big man in the league...but BIG was all he had.

Your going to rip on Shaq for being bigger than his opposition. When Wilt played the only one center that was within 6 inches of him that he played was Russell, Wilt has 1 ring Shaq has 4.

I'm not Ripin on shaq I'd be scared of him too if he was coming to town...point is he had no finesse...he tore down hoops and backboards and then took his dominance to the next game....but his dominance wasn't his 7 feet tall it was his 7 feet around his shoulders.... height with Shaq, Big baby, Barkley, Oakley, Moses Malone Karl Malone, didn't mean anything its there foundation and leg strength along with there shoulders and chest....
Kareem, Hakeem, Robinson, KG, Wilt, Russel, Ewing, they all played less physical and actually developed trade marks with there moves and game. Shaq was a bull dozer...you don't argue with a bull dozer

Ok, so because Shaq was a monster no one could handle he isn't worthy of the glory that Wilt or Russell or Hakeem receive? Finesse doesn't matter if you can physically dominate. I'm a little surprised you don't love Shaq, seeing how you love Howard. Howard is a more athletic version of Shaq in his prime. Howard is awful from the line (doesn't look as stupid as Shaq, but results are no better), he has no jumper, and he really doesn't have any post moves. He dunks and with power, like Shaq.

its the little more athletic that you mentioned that attracts me more to Howard...dunked on a 12 foot rim....dunked in the dunk off and showed how athletic he was...and when Shaq was Howards age I was real impressed but as time went on with him and Barkley they were just to boring...shaq is a good dude and is worthy of every thing he gets rewarded with

winner-within wrote:Shaq said KOBE was the "best player in the league" at the time... shaq (at the time) was the one of the best big man in the league...but BIG was all he had.

Just like in 08 when Allen said Pierce was the best player on the team, Pierce said Garnett was the best, and Garnett said Allen was the best??? No star will come out in the media and say I'm the man and my team is garbage without me. Oh wait, nevermind....Kobe did that the seasons between Shaq and Pau. What a pro

baseball wrote:

winner-within wrote:Shaq said KOBE was the "best player in the league" at the time... shaq (at the time) was the one of the best big man in the league...but BIG was all he had.

Just like in 08 when Allen said Pierce was the best player on the team, Pierce said Garnett was the best, and Garnett said Allen was the best??? No star will come out in the media and say I'm the man and my team is garbage without me. Oh wait, nevermind....Kobe did that the seasons between Shaq and Pau. What a pro

Pau has nothing to do with Kobe's success....and If you believe Shaq should have said "Kobe's good But I'm the Man"...(oh yea but I sat out 25 games because of my sore toe) than I have to chuckle

winner-within wrote:

baseball wrote:

winner-within wrote:Shaq said KOBE was the "best player in the league" at the time... shaq (at the time) was the one of the best big man in the league...but BIG was all he had.

Just like in 08 when Allen said Pierce was the best player on the team, Pierce said Garnett was the best, and Garnett said Allen was the best??? No star will come out in the media and say I'm the man and my team is garbage without me. Oh wait, nevermind....Kobe did that the seasons between Shaq and Pau. What a pro

Pau has nothing to do with Kobe's success....and If you believe Shaq should have said "Kobe's good But I'm the Man"...(oh yea but I sat out 25 games because of my sore toe) than I have to chuckle

So he had a minor injury, his team was for sure making the playoffs, and he should have toughed it out so he could be less than 100% for the postseason? Who cares if he sat out 25 games. And don't turn this around and say "exactly, they didn't need him to win." They did need him. He was their best player. Theres no reason to risk further injury or fatigue if you know your in.

Shaq won 3 straight NBA finals MVP's...don't forget that.

The Schwab wrote:Shaq won 3 straight NBA finals MVP's...don't forget that.

I always thought Kobe needed shaq more than shaq needed Kobe....and I know it was a race to see who would get their next ring...Shaq won...with a Kobe styled player (wade) Kobe gets one without a shaq player....and dont say PAU, please!..............But in the years of the threepeat Shaq was more dominat than kobe in each of their final apperances...this is partically because the NBA is all about match ups and and Pacers, Philly, and nets had nobody to contend with Shaq...hence the three MVP's

Kobe actually made huge impressions during the threepeat but it wasn't till 03- 2004 when he really kicked into overdrive
Taken from Wikipedia:

At Christmas, the team was 11–19, but then Kobe Bryant turned in the best sustained performance of his career, setting NBA records for youngest player to reach 10,000 points, most three-pointers in a game (12), most three-pointers in a half (8), and most consecutive three-pointers in a game (9). Additionally, he set a team record for most points in a half (42), scored 40+ points in 9 consecutive games (joining Chamberlain and Jordan), scored 35+ points in 13 consecutive games (trailing only Chamberlain), became the third player to average 40 points in a month, and became the first Laker to record a triple-double in consecutive games since Magic Johnson in 1991.

Not bad fore a role player to Phil and Shaq

winner-within wrote:
Not bad fore a role player to Phil and Shaq

Your comprhension is so terrible. No one is saying Kobe was a role player. He was obviously a star. So was Shaq. You can have more than 1 star on a team. Shaq was just the bigger star.

winner-within wrote:Kobe actually made huge impressions during the threepeat but it wasn't till 03- 2004 when he really kicked into overdrive
Taken from Wikipedia:

At Christmas, the team was 11–19, but then Kobe Bryant turned in the best sustained performance of his career, setting NBA records for youngest player to reach 10,000 points, most three-pointers in a game (12), most three-pointers in a half (8), and most consecutive three-pointers in a game (9). Additionally, he set a team record for most points in a half (42), scored 40+ points in 9 consecutive games (joining Chamberlain and Jordan), scored 35+ points in 13 consecutive games (trailing only Chamberlain), became the third player to average 40 points in a month, and became the first Laker to record a triple-double in consecutive games since Magic Johnson in 1991.

Not bad fore a role player to Phil and Shaq

which season are you talking about from Wiki? because in 03-04 they were 20-7 at xmas...

This whole statement just proves how reliable Wiki is

baseball wrote:

winner-within wrote:Kobe actually made huge impressions during the threepeat but it wasn't till 03- 2004 when he really kicked into overdrive
Taken from Wikipedia:

At Christmas, the team was 11–19, but then Kobe Bryant turned in the best sustained performance of his career, setting NBA records for youngest player to reach 10,000 points, most three-pointers in a game (12), most three-pointers in a half (8), and most consecutive three-pointers in a game (9). Additionally, he set a team record for most points in a half (42), scored 40+ points in 9 consecutive games (joining Chamberlain and Jordan), scored 35+ points in 13 consecutive games (trailing only Chamberlain), became the third player to average 40 points in a month, and became the first Laker to record a triple-double in consecutive games since Magic Johnson in 1991.

Not bad fore a role player to Phil and Shaq

which season are you talking about from Wiki? because in 03-04 they were 20-7 at xmas...

This whole statement just proves how reliable Wiki is

I may have punched in the wrong season.... all the Bio's, etc and such I reserch on wiki are spot on,
I meant 02 -03 so my bad! Not bad for Long Range Shooting