Giving More A Chance to Play

[tellmeaboutit]

Check out this letter to the editor from the Bismarck Tribune:

http://bismarcktribune.com/articles/200 ... 496369.txt

Let me know what you think.

[GFRR99]

link doesnt work for me

[Hinsa]

Here's the letter.....

By SHARON BUHR
Valley City
Class A high school basketball - who gets to play? There has been much discussion by the North Dakota High School Activities Association and schools across North Dakota about this topic. Everyone involved could think creatively in order to come up with the best solution, keeping in mind one major goal of playing high school basketball: to allow interested students to play the game.

One bold suggestion would be to establish multiple teams at schools, depending on the number of students. For example, a school having from 325-500 students would have one team; if that school's enrollment reached 1,000 students, it would have two teams.

Some might say that under this plan, fewer people would attend games because students from one school would have to decide which school team/game they would attend.

But the opposite outcome is more likely: More people will attend games, because the crowds will gain all the parents, friends and relatives of the students now able to play varsity ball who weren't playing before.

High school athletics fundamentally differs from college and professional athletics, because the primary goal in high school athletics is to provide the experience of playing for students, not entertainment for the attending crowd. This plan would allow more interested students a chance to participate in a great sport.

[baseball]

pointless....this is more than likely just a letter from a parent who wants his/her kid to play more. i feel its the dumbest idea ever. 2 teams to one school? come on...

not to mention you have to find a coach fro 2 more teams (assuming the letter was for both boys and girls). split the gym between 4 teams trying to have practice. how do the teams practice when Varsity team A has a game? they cant. have to hire refs, scorekeepers, book keepers, etc. for twice as many games.

plain and simple a terrible idea. if your kid wants to play, get in the gym and work on the game. if you dont want to go in and work in the off season then obviously your interest isnt high enough to force a school to put 2 teams together. o yea....JV, sophmore team, freshman team. i think theres enough teams so that everyone who wants to play gets to play...

[tellmeaboutit]

That is exactly how I felt about the letter as well. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't being over competitive. This is another prime example of how parents want to help their children too much.

[AC-DC]

Isn't that what JV teams are for?

[GFRR99]

if the kids arent good enough to play for a high school team, they should play church league or y ball. high school basketball needs to stay as competitive as possible

[Ming01]

What is this elementary school ball? If you want your kid to play more then maybe they should work harder during the off season.

[Wild Wolves]

I think it should be out of the schools completely. Make HS sports more like legion baseball. Age limits and geographic locations determine the team you are on. Make school about school and leave the athletics to thosewho focus on just that. I read the Tribune things and I agree that in some class A schools there are 250 + seniors in the school and less than 5 that play BB that seems wrong to deprive so many of the chance to play based on the fact that they live in a larger city. Heck in the small towns they would make a decent team out of the guys that get cut.

[baller01]

I think it should be out of the schools completely. Make HS sports more like legion baseball. Age limits and geographic locations determine the team you are on. Make school about school and leave the athletics to thosewho focus on just that. I read the Tribune things and I agree that in some class A schools there are 250 + seniors in the school and less than 5 that play BB that seems wrong to deprive so many of the chance to play based on the fact that they live in a larger city. Heck in the small towns they would make a decent team out of the guys that get cut.

First off...Make HS sports more like legion baseball huh? You know how many people actually care about legion baseball compared to say North Dakota class B basketball?

Second off...You might find this to be incorrect, but in some cases, athletics is the only reason some students keep their grades up. Some student/athletes just keep their grades up so they are elidgeable to play and as soon as their season ends they really don't care about their grades anymore.

Third off... Just becase their are over 250+ seniors in a school and only 5 of them that play doesn't mean the other 245+ students are deprived of playing. Some people just don't like playing organized basketball. Some people like playing organized basketball but don't like practicing etc. If you are a student, you can play basketball. It might not be starting on the Varsity team but try to make JV, try to make the Sophomores and Freshmen teams and if you can't make any of those teams, play at the Y.

Not everyone is meant to be a 4 year starter on the Varsity level. I thought the 3-class system was the dumbest thing ever but making sure everyone gets fair playing time and all this crap is BY FAR dumber.

[Wild Wolves]

I am saying use the rules of Legion baseball to determine who plays where and also the criteria for which level. How many seniors are on JV or Soph teams? Kids want to play basketball and having the traveling teams do the entire thing would be great. There are dozens of kids who get cut at each level in each school who aren't bad ball players they just aren't as good as the (insert # here) other kids out for BB.

As far as an education and only doing well because of a sport goes that isn't shocking and I know many people who have said it about themselves. I got news for them, school is going to take you much further in life than BB or anyother sport in 99% of the cases. You will grow up someday and say I would have been better of paying attention in class and doing my homework than playing 10 hours of xbox.

[baseball]

I am saying use the rules of Legion baseball to determine who plays where and also the criteria for which level. How many seniors are on JV or Soph teams? Kids want to play basketball and having the traveling teams do the entire thing would be great. There are dozens of kids who get cut at each level in each school who aren't bad ball players they just aren't as good as the (insert # here) other kids out for BB.

As far as an education and only doing well because of a sport goes that isn't shocking and I know many people who have said it about themselves. I got news for them, school is going to take you much further in life than BB or anyother sport in 99% of the cases. You will grow up someday and say I would have been better of paying attention in class and doing my homework than playing 10 hours of xbox.

of course most kids are gonna look back when they are 25-30 struggling to keep a steady job and say yea i wish i payed more attention. but thats the thing, they are kids. you have to have fun while you still can. and thats what most kids want, to have fun. its hard to convince a 15 yr old kid that he should go work on his science homework instead of playing xbox. as for the geographic area, thats the same thing has the schol district telling you where to go to school, so essentially you already have that. ill gaurantee you don have any kids driving over 40 miles one way to go to school

[baller01]

I am saying use the rules of Legion baseball to determine who plays where and also the criteria for which level. How many seniors are on JV or Soph teams? Kids want to play basketball and having the traveling teams do the entire thing would be great. There are dozens of kids who get cut at each level in each school who aren't bad ball players they just aren't as good as the (insert # here) other kids out for BB.

As far as an education and only doing well because of a sport goes that isn't shocking and I know many people who have said it about themselves. I got news for them, school is going to take you much further in life than BB or anyother sport in 99% of the cases. You will grow up someday and say I would have been better of paying attention in class and doing my homework than playing 10 hours of xbox.

Wild Wolves think of it like this...

In the real world, does everyone get the dream job? Does everyone get a job where they work 3 days a week and make six figures? Of course not. There is a hefty amount of people that work 50 hrs a week at a fast food restaraunt making miniumum wage. You say that everyone should get a fair and equal oppurtunity to play sports. I say the ones that deserve to be on the teams should be on the teams. Just like those who deserve the high paying jobs should get the high paying jobs.

If ___________ has practiced basketball day in and day out during the off-season to become a great basketball player, why should someone who hasn't practiced at all be on the same team as him. If you really want to be on the team you will do whatever it takes.

If you aren't happy about not playing. Get better. If you aren't happy with your job does someone just come up to you and give you a great job with a bunch of bonuses? Of course not. High school sports is suppose to teach student/athletes about life. Making sure everyone gets equal playing time and all that stuff isn't how life is.

Reality check...LIFE ISN'T FAIR!

[Wild Wolves]

I understand competition just fine. I just think there should be more teams in the larger cities. Not because I want a chance to play but because I think that making a commitment to a team and working as a team can be beneficial to young people. The competitive aspects are great but they are not the only part of team sports that help develop character.

Nice analogy but I don't buy it in HS. We are killing participation ourselves by limiting the numbers. We are dictating the declining participation by cutting athletes at lower and lower grades. A school in my area cuts kids in teh 7th grade.

I firmly feel that having one varsity team for a school that has between 250 and 500 seniors is limiting the number of students who could benefit from participation.

[ndfan]

Here's an Idea take it for what its worth (probably not much )

Do a junior gold kinda thing like they do for hockey. Numbers shouldn't be tough for class A schools... The thing ya gotta do is find people in each town who could be dedicated to coach, need to find places to practice, officiating and whatever. I think it could be done but it would take a lot of time and dedication from parents. Just a thought.

[cubsfan]

To me this is a pointless idea. If you want to play, you have to earn it. For those people that are not willing to put in the time they will get their opportunity on the JV.

[baller01]

I understand competition just fine. I just think there should be more teams in the larger cities. Not because I want a chance to play but because I think that making a commitment to a team and working as a team can be beneficial to young people. The competitive aspects are great but they are not the only part of team sports that help develop character.

Nice analogy but I don't buy it in HS. We are killing participation ourselves by limiting the numbers. We are dictating the declining participation by cutting athletes at lower and lower grades. A school in my area cuts kids in teh 7th grade.

I firmly feel that having one varsity team for a school that has between 250 and 500 seniors is limiting the number of students who could benefit from participation.

Where do you draw the line Wild Wolves? No matter how many teams you get their are going to be kids that don't get to play. Why? Because not everyone is meant to play basketball. It's life. Some people just aren't basketball players just like some people aren't good at public speaking just like some people aren't good at math etc. You get where I'm going. Some people just aren't basketball players. Unless you take all 250 students that want to play and make 40 some teams with 6 players on each team not everyone is going to get to play.

WW you know why class A teams are better then class B teams. Because the kids that REALLY want to play, know HOW HARD they have to work. Who do you think is going to work harder at their game and at practice...A kid fighting for that 12th spot on Varsity at a class A school or a kid that started last year on a class B team with 10 kids? Numbers fuel competition. If you take away that "competition" you lose the point of basketball. Why do you think class A players and games in general are more physical then class B players? Cause class A practices are flat out wars with kids trying to beat each other out for spots.

Like I said, if a kid wants to be playing on a team more then anything he will do whatever it takes to get there and if he doesn't, he obviously didn't want to play that bad.

[baseball]

I understand competition just fine. I just think there should be more teams in the larger cities. Not because I want a chance to play but because I think that making a commitment to a team and working as a team can be beneficial to young people. The competitive aspects are great but they are not the only part of team sports that help develop character.

Nice analogy but I don't buy it in HS. We are killing participation ourselves by limiting the numbers. We are dictating the declining participation by cutting athletes at lower and lower grades. A school in my area cuts kids in teh 7th grade.

I firmly feel that having one varsity team for a school that has between 250 and 500 seniors is limiting the number of students who could benefit from participation.

and thats the same as understanding your role. the great teams never have everyone wanting to be "the guy" but they understand what they need to do for the team to succeed. its just like working on a team in the corporate world. you go into a meeting saying, your give the speech, you show the numbers, you give the plan of action, etc...giving everyone the chance to play would not develop the character. its the adversity of overcoming the competitors to win your spot that defines character.

[HeisAlive]

I don't know how many of you go to an open gym but sometime it's hard to put three teams on the court in a day. But when it comes to try-outs, the court is full... I know some kids are going to play other sports (football) and can't go to open gym. But I talking about the ones who are sitting at home and thinking they will make the team. So I say, if you want to play... play, practice... practice and train hard. I've seen kids not make the team one year and then make it the next. This is because they go to the Y, gym, and train for the next year. They put the time in and try. Why do we want to reward people for doing nothing. I say you will get out of something what you put into it. Work hard and you can achieve.

[Wild Wolves]

Let's not get carried away but how about a team for every 250 boys in HS. So if you have 250 kids in HS you have a team. If you have 300 you have two teams. Stack one that is fine. You would add teams to the state instead of seeing teh dwendling number of teams.

[baller01]

Let's not get carried away but how about a team for every 250 boys in HS. So if you have 250 kids in HS you have a team. If you have 300 you have two teams. Stack one that is fine. You would add teams to the state instead of seeing teh dwendling number of teams.

Too bad the "unstacked" team wouldn't last two days in class A.

But hey WW, I see where you are coming from. I just don't believe that kids that don't deserve to be on the team shouldn't be.

[Wild Wolves]

I like competition as much as the next guy. and I really don't think that the second team or unstacked team would do that badly over the course of a season. Especially if all the schools are doing the same thing. When it came to state tournament time the best teams would represent the school. Take a school like West Fago they have tons of kids. I think teh second team would fair well against teh Jamestown's and Wahpeton's of the world. Minot could have two quality teams.

As far as the working at getting better thing goes I still think there would be competetion, but it would create greater depth in the talent pool.

Regardless I think it would only work outside of the school system. The time may be ripe for the picking. I hear numerous parents talking about using the school season to get practice for the traveling teams. Get it out of schools and let the parents deal with the mess they create without having to drag an educational system down.

[baseball]

I like competition as much as the next guy. and I really don't think that the second team or unstacked team would do that badly over the course of a season. Especially if all the schools are doing the same thing. When it came to state tournament time the best teams would represent the school. Take a school like West Fago they have tons of kids. I think teh second team would fair well against teh Jamestown's and Wahpeton's of the world. Minot could have two quality teams.

As far as the working at getting better thing goes I still think there would be competetion, but it would create greater depth in the talent pool.

Regardless I think it would only work outside of the school system. The time may be ripe for the picking. I hear numerous parents talking about using the school season to get practice for the traveling teams. Get it out of schools and let the parents deal with the mess they create without having to drag an educational system down.

i tihnk it will decrease the talent because the kids wont practice in the off season they will just look at it and say o well i have a spot on one of the teams.

[ndfan]

I like competition as much as the next guy. and I really don't think that the second team or unstacked team would do that badly over the course of a season. Especially if all the schools are doing the same thing. When it came to state tournament time the best teams would represent the school. Take a school like West Fago they have tons of kids. I think teh second team would fair well against teh Jamestown's and Wahpeton's of the world. Minot could have two quality teams.

As far as the working at getting better thing goes I still think there would be competetion, but it would create greater depth in the talent pool.

Regardless I think it would only work outside of the school system. The time may be ripe for the picking. I hear numerous parents talking about using the school season to get practice for the traveling teams. Get it out of schools and let the parents deal with the mess they create without having to drag an educational system down.

i tihnk it will decrease the talent because the kids wont practice in the off season they will just look at it and say o well i have a spot on one of the teams.

You don't think some of those kids would have a chip on there shoulder and want to work harder to get better to give there team a chance? I don't disagree that some kids may not work as hard, but I believe there are plenty of kids out there that would give it there best if given a shot. I don't care either way what happens.

[Wild Wolves]

Please correct me if I am wrong. I hear you saying that if you are going to be on the team you won't keep working to get better. This is the Peter Principle at its finest. You will be promoted to a level of failure.

Player A is a good athlete who matures early. He makes the Freshmen team as an 8th grader. As a freshmen he stays on the freshmen team because the other players are catching up. As a sophmore he is on the soph team but plays sparingly. As a junior this promising young star is on JV and as a senior the hype is gone and so is the player.

Player B is an ok athlete and is short for his age. He plays on the 8b team. He plays on the 9 B team and gets a few minutes on the soph team the next year. Does the kid keep working at it and go out with a risk of being cut his junior year? I would guess not. Summer before the senior year he grows 6 inches and hasn't lost a step but hasn't kept up his skills because "the writing was on the wall".

Neither sounds like a great scenerio, every year these two kids show up and every year some coach tells them to keep working at it, to lift weights, to be involved in other sports, to be on summer leagues and travel teams. And every year we will still see these scenerios played out.

That is regardless of the size of the school or the number of teams. Maybe with more teams and more athletes competing the competition level will also rise. I choose to believe that these two kids are a minority and that most kids are going to bust a hump until they are better than they ever thought they could be. Hopefully their parents don't fill them full of BS but rather push them to continually get better. Nobody wants to be a Peter!