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Re: Vikings

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:17 am

Won't touch on the things that have already been brought up. Musgrave's offense is apparently pretty complex. He relies on very complex blocking schemes. So it is probably part of the reason why our offensive line starts out a little slow each year and then picks up as they get more comfortable with it. Especially if they are inserting new guys each year. I do have to ask a question: Why do they have Ponder turning left and dropping back leading with his left shoulder during play action? He is turning his back to the defense. The announcer did finally touch on this yesterday and it drives me crazy. He fakes hand offs with his right hand 90% of the time. By the time he gets turned around and shoulders square, it takes him a second or two to find his receivers and determine if they are covered. It looks awkward and unnatural. Same goes with rolling to his left. Very difficult for any QB to do let alone a young one.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Hinsa » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:41 pm

The clock was not going to run out on the Bears...

They were on the 39 yard line with 0:43 remaining with 1 timeout.

I see your reasoning Flip. I just wonder when folks will start realizing that 0:43 with one timeout is an eternity. Getting out of bounds, incomplete passes, clocking the ball - you can run 8 plays in 43 seconds if you are a good two minute team. Six plays if you are crummy at it.

My point is this: whether the Vikings lead was 3 or 6 did not matter. The Bears had tons of time to go down the field and score a touchdown. The only thing the Vikes could have done to ice the game was to go for a touchdown instead of kicking the field goal that put them up 6.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Flip » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:50 pm

Hinsa wrote:My point is this: whether the Vikings lead was 3 or 6 did not matter. The Bears had tons of time to go down the field and score a touchdown. The only thing the Vikes could have done to ice the game was to go for a touchdown instead of kicking the field goal that put them up 6.

Agree with going for the TD. Once it was 1st and goal from the 7 Peterson should have carried the ball 3 or 4 times in a row. If you're up 3 there is a good chance the Bears settle for 3.

I can't post it here because the pictures are too big, but this is a good post on another forum I read.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp ... count=6390
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Re: Vikings

Postby Hinsa » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:59 pm

Good info on that link. Nice to read a solid breakdown of what went wrong.
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Re: Vikings

Postby winner-within » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:23 am

Cassels gets the start in London....Loser has to stay in the UK for the rest of the season.... :D
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Re: Vikings

Postby Hinsa » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:14 am

winner-within wrote:Cassels gets the start in London....Loser has to stay in the UK for the rest of the season.... :D


I like it Winner!
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Re: Vikings

Postby winner-within » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:20 am

Well Ponder....time to ponder
you said you would be back for Carolina....but I think your rib still hurts....ya know Frazier wants to get his head off the choppin block so he may just rest you some more.

Jared Allen? you were a beast yesterday...my Fav QB to watched get sacked (Big Ben) and you got him 2.5 times my freind.

Jennings? sorry it took so long to get your first TD pass...I know you should a had about 3 already but Ponder likes to run it in for the glory and he cant pass anyway....but look at it this way thats how he got hurt.. :) ouch!

all in all.....a SPECTACULAR SUNDAY for Winner....................... :D
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Re: Vikings

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:17 am

No doubt that Cassel looked good on Sunday. It really seems like the team is behind Cassel much more than Ponder. There were a number of comments made by players mentioning his leadership ability in the huddle and elsewhere. I question Frasier coming out and saying that Ponder is still their starter. Probably the politically correct thing to do, but I think you ride Cassel to the end now. Made quicker decisions and throws and for the most part was very accurate. I still believe Ponder has the tools and is going to be a good QB, just don't think it is going to happen in Minnesota.
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Re: Vikings

Postby winner-within » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:03 am

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:No doubt that Cassel looked good on Sunday. It really seems like the team is behind Cassel much more than Ponder. There were a number of comments made by players mentioning his leadership ability in the huddle and elsewhere. I question Frasier coming out and saying that Ponder is still their starter. Probably the politically correct thing to do, but I think you ride Cassel to the end now. Made quicker decisions and throws and for the most part was very accurate. I still believe Ponder has the tools and is going to be a good QB, just don't think it is going to happen in Minnesota.


Agreed,
I would say in all reality that Ponder, like tavaris, like joe webb, like Mcnabb/Farve (just past their prime)..like frerotte dating back to 07 is just the same scenario....I would go on to say that Cassels could be as good as Brad Johnson, I like his height, Ponder is actually to short (imo) to play pocket and doesn't have the experience anyways.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:59 am

Well Viking's fans, the addition of Josh Freeman certainly adds some intrigue to the QB position. What are your thoughts?
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Re: Vikings

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:53 am

If they don't trade Cassel or Ponder and get something decent in return, I don't understand adding Freeman.
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Re: Vikings

Postby winner-within » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:05 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:If they don't trade Cassel or Ponder and get something decent in return, I don't understand adding Freeman.


QB's are dropping like fly's now days in the NFL....hang on for this season....start Cassels the players like him....wont get squat for Ponder (another TT)
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Re: Vikings

Postby Flip » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:55 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:If they don't trade Cassel or Ponder and get something decent in return, I don't understand adding Freeman.

explain. and no one is going to give the Vikings anything for Ponder or Cassell.
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Re: Vikings

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:17 pm

They basically have three ok QBs on their roster with a lot of question marks with all of them. I understand taking a chance on Freeman because there is more upside there than with the other two. But to pay him $3 mil to go over the salary cap, meaning they are going to have to get rid of other pieces or restructure contracts, doesn't make sense to me. If you trade one of the other two and at least get a draft pick or some help on the o-line, it makes sense. But to keep three QBs of that caliber on the roster for the rest of the season is stupid.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Indy5 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:33 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:They basically have three ok QBs on their roster with a lot of question marks with all of them. I understand taking a chance on Freeman because there is more upside there than with the other two. But to pay him $3 mil to go over the salary cap, meaning they are going to have to get rid of other pieces or restructure contracts, doesn't make sense to me. If you trade one of the other two and at least get a draft pick or some help on the o-line, it makes sense. But to keep three QBs of that caliber on the roster for the rest of the season is stupid.

I think they should get rid of Ponder. Once Freeman is up to speed on the offense, he's the best best. Wasn't he a pro bowler his 2nd year? He has played quality football before in his career although I suppose Cassel has too. Freeman's has been better and he seems to have more upside though.
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Re: Vikings

Postby winner-within » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:19 pm

so where is the severe need in the NFL for a QB who has had almost 3 seasons with the number one running back in the NFL and respectable receivers.

getting rid of Ponder (at this juncture in his career) would get you a water boy, maybe! plus he has a broken Rib! ....Oh I can hear the phone call right now to Spielman ....

team: is Ponders Rib Healed??, your sure it wont penetrate is Heart and kill him.
Spielman: oh yes hes ready to go, have you seen him play?
team: oh were not worried, we just need a QB pronto!
Spielman: well heII, why didnt you say so....I would need a first rounder and a Lamborghini for my wife
team: not a problem get him on the next flight.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Flip » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:37 pm

From another forum:
I believe we are until we cut someone today. MBT sounds like he might be the choice to be cut. My money is on Ponder to IR.

bolded by me
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Re: Vikings

Postby winner-within » Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:14 am

so sad and mad about the little guy....not to intertwine tragedy with sports but I wouldn't wanna be the Panthers on Sunday
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Re: Vikings

Postby classB4ever » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:32 am

Some questions for Vike fans:

1. Should Frazier have been fired?
2. Should Spielman be fired as well?
3. With Frazier gone, who will be the next Viking's coach?
4. Who would you like as the next coach?
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Re: Vikings

Postby Hinsa » Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:12 pm

1. Probably, but the quarterbacks he had to work with were bad, bad, and worse.
2. I don't think you should dump the GM at the same time as the coach. You need some sort of stability to sort through putting a coaching staff together and finding some real defensive players.
3. D coordinator of Seahawks
4. Jack Del Rio
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Re: Vikings

Postby Flip » Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:51 pm

1. I think so. The players respect him and played hard for him. He's a middle tier HC IMO. Rarely playing Patterson and Rhodes at the beginning of the season was inexcusable.
2. I say hang on to Spielman. Outside of the Ponder pick he seems to draft well.
3. No idea.
4. Pipe dream, but Jon Gruden.
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Re: Vikings

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:56 pm

1. Depends on who the QB fiasco was from, him or the GM. Whatever one made those decisions needed to go.
2. Refer to #2. However his decisions in the draft and signing Freeman would make me lean to him getting the ax before Frazier.
3. They should go with a defensive minded coach, but I'm guessing they will go offense. Jay Gruden, Greg Roman, or a college guy.
4. Jack Del Rio or Kimmen? (Cincy DC)
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Re: Vikings

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:38 pm

1. Didn't like hiring Frazier in the first place. His defenses were poor during the Childress years and should have been fired with Childress. Seems like a great guy. Smart guy no doubt. Just not head coach material.
2. I think this past year's draft will keep Spielman around for a while. Ponder may have been a reach but still don't think they have coaches in place to groom any QB.
3. Shanahan. If Rex Ryan would have been fired and with the Wilf's New York ties, think he would have been a front runner.
4. If they feel that the QB position was their downfall (which is what they are saying), then they need to hire someone with a pedigree of grooming QB's and draft accordingly. Gruden would then be at the top of this list but will never get him.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Indy5 » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:29 pm

My opinion on their QB situation.

Ponder should have never got any run. It's evident he doesn't get it. Cassell just should have started all along. He's proven to be servicable. Freeman being signed might not have been the best move, but I don't dislike it either. He's got a lot of upside and has been a pro bowler before. He was handled so poorly and I'd assume that blame goes to the coaching staff not the GM. For that reason, I'd say Frazier needed to go. I wouldn't give up hope on Freeman yet. Lot of talent there.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Flip » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:33 am

Freeman is a FA. I doubt he's on the team next year.
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