Stats question

Talk about the world of sports here. And also a sub-forum to talk about anything else.

Stats question

Postby Flip » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:33 pm

R4F, or anyone else for that matter how do you record rebounds that end up out of bounds? I think I asked this before, but I couldn't find my previous question. I was watching the Hillsboro/MPCG boys game last week when MPCG missed a FT and the rebound was tapped out of bounds by a MPCG player. The radio guy gave MPCG a TO? Now to me that is a team rebound for Hillsboro. I talked to a different radio guy tonight and he gives a TO too. I don't see how this is a turnover, which individual would you give it too? Or how about just a normal FG attempt where the rebound ends up out of bounds?
User avatar
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Re: Stats question

Postby ndlionsfan » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:04 am

I wouldn't think it would be a turnover because MPCG never actually had possession of the ball. Guess I wouldn't classify it as a rebound for anyone either.
"There is only one thing in which a person can start at the top - digging a hole"
User avatar
ndlionsfan
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3176
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 am
Location: Central ND

Re: Stats question

Postby Hinsa » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:42 pm

Team rebound in both cases. Not a turnover.
Twins and Vikings Forever!
User avatar
Hinsa
NDPreps Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 1867
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:53 am
Location: THE Red River Valley Conference

Re: Stats question

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:43 pm

Hinsa wrote:Team rebound in both cases. Not a turnover.


Agreed
Email ND HS Scores to: ndhsscores@yahoo.com
THANKS!
User avatar
Run4Fun2009
NDPreps The King
 
Posts: 10363
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:06 pm

Re: Stats question

Postby Flip » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:10 am

OK, that is how we score it. I wonder why some people think it is a turnover. That seems very strange to me.
User avatar
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Re: Stats question

Postby Flip » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:22 am

I have another one. A post player gets an offensive rebound, takes a dribble and as he goes up for a shot a player strips/blocks the ball out of the post players hands around waste level. Is this a shot attempt and a block?

One more. Defensive player blocks the ball out of bounds. This is a team rebound for the offense?
User avatar
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Re: Stats question

Postby Indy5 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:47 am

Flip wrote:I have another one. A post player gets an offensive rebound, takes a dribble and as he goes up for a shot a player strips/blocks the ball out of the post players hands around waste level. Is this a shot attempt and a block?

One more. Defensive player blocks the ball out of bounds. This is a team rebound for the offense?

I would have to assume it'd be a steal until he gets it up around his shoulders in somewhat of a shooting position.

I don't know how that would work. I guess you could say so if you had to say something. Can you ever just score nothing at all in stats?
User avatar
Indy5
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2220
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:21 pm
Location: Northwest ND

Re: Stats question

Postby Flip » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:54 am

I'm not sure if it is correct, but someone once told me every shot attempt needs a rebound.
User avatar
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Re: Stats question

Postby scc » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:08 am

Flip wrote:I'm not sure if it is correct, but someone once told me every shot attempt needs a rebound.

If the stat keeper is recording team rebounds, this is technically true. You don't see that often at the high school level.
User avatar
scc
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2409
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:52 am
Location: East Central North Dakota

Re: Stats question

Postby Flip » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:41 pm

Player A is shooting a FT, during the attempt there is a lane violation by a teammate. I assume no FT attempt?

Player A is shooting a FT and misses the FT, but there was a lane violation by the opposing team. Does that count for a missed FT or no FT attempt at all?
User avatar
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Re: Stats question

Postby winner-within » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:45 pm

Flip wrote:Player A is shooting a FT, during the attempt there is a lane violation by a teammate. I assume no FT attempt?

Player A is shooting a FT and misses the FT, but there was a lane violation by the opposing team. Does that count for a missed FT or no FT attempt at all?


Both good questions....problem being there isnt attentive enough stat keeper out there
"It doesn't matter who scores the points, it's who can get the ball to the scorer" - Larry Bird
winner-within
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4056
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:08 am

Re: Stats question

Postby Flip » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:47 pm

scc wrote:
Flip wrote:I'm not sure if it is correct, but someone once told me every shot attempt needs a rebound.

If the stat keeper is recording team rebounds, this is technically true. You don't see that often at the high school level.

We keep team rebounds. It seems like the only fair way to see if you out rebound your opponent.
User avatar
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Re: Stats question

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:48 pm

Flip wrote:Player A is shooting a FT, during the attempt there is a lane violation by a teammate. I assume no FT attempt?

Player A is shooting a FT and misses the FT, but there was a lane violation by the opposing team. Does that count for a missed FT or no FT attempt at all?


I believe neither count as attempts.
"There is only one thing in which a person can start at the top - digging a hole"
User avatar
ndlionsfan
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3176
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 am
Location: Central ND

Re: Stats question

Postby classB4ever » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:59 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:
Flip wrote:Player A is shooting a FT, during the attempt there is a lane violation by a teammate. I assume no FT attempt?

Player A is shooting a FT and misses the FT, but there was a lane violation by the opposing team. Does that count for a missed FT or no FT attempt at all?


I believe neither count as attempts.

I believe for any shot to be counted as an attempt, the shooter has to have the opportunity for the basket to count. So, I believe, first situation would not count as an attempt, the second would and simply gets another attempt due to the infraction. Not 100% sure though.
classB4ever
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 706
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:20 pm

Re: Stats question

Postby Flip » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:46 pm

classB4ever wrote:I believe for any shot to be counted as an attempt, the shooter has to have the opportunity for the basket to count. So, I believe, first situation would not count as an attempt, the second would and simply gets another attempt due to the infraction. Not 100% sure though.

If this were a multiple choice question on a test I'd choose your answer.

Next question: Player A1 lines up to shoot a FT. There is a lane violation on A2, so the FT attempt is waved off. Does A2 receive a turnover?
User avatar
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Re: Stats question

Postby The Schwab » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:55 pm

I believe any offensive violation that results in loosing the ball is a turnover, so I would say yes.
The Schwab
User avatar
The Schwab
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:38 am
Location: The Peace Garden State

Re: Stats question

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:57 pm

The Schwab wrote:I believe any offensive violation that results in loosing the ball is a turnover, so I would say yes.


I would have to agree
"There is only one thing in which a person can start at the top - digging a hole"
User avatar
ndlionsfan
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3176
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 am
Location: Central ND

Re: Stats question

Postby Flip » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:06 pm

Follow up: A1 is shooting 2 FTs. First FT lane violation on A2. Second FT is made by A1.
User avatar
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Re: Stats question

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:16 pm

In that case, I say no TO. The offense loses a chance to score, but not the ball.
"There is only one thing in which a person can start at the top - digging a hole"
User avatar
ndlionsfan
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3176
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 am
Location: Central ND

Re: Stats question

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:09 pm

**A free-throw attempt (FTA) is charged any time a player shoots a free throw and there is no violation (or technical for goaltending) during the throw, with these exceptions:

(a) An attempt as well as a free throw made is credited if the shot is made and there is a violation by the defense.
(b) An attempt is charged if the only penalized violation is for the failure of the throw to touch the rim.

PHILOSOPHY: A player should not be charged for a shot from the free-throw line influenced by the illegal actions of himself or herself, or any teammates, or opponents, unless the shot results in a FTM.

(A names are Team A; B names are Team B)
Example 1: Allen shoots a free throw and, during the shot, Brown commits a free-throw violation. (a) Allen makes the shot or (b) Allen misses the shot. RULING: In (a), Allen is charged with a FTA and credited with a FTM. In (b), do not charge Allen with a FTA; a substitute free throw will be awarded and it shall take the place of the nullified throw.

Example 2: Allen shoots a free throw and, during the shot, Adams (or Allen) commits a free-throw violation. (a) Allen makes the shot or (b) Allen misses the shot, but does hit the rim. RULING: In both cases, do not charge Allen with a FTA; charge Adams (or Allen) with a turnover, unless the ball was retained by Team A.

Example 3: Allen shoots a free throw during which both Adams and Brown commit free-throw violations. (a) The first violation is committed by Adams, or (b) the first violation is committed by Brown, or (c) the violations are ruled to be simultaneous. RULING: Do not charge Allen with a FTA. In (a), charge Adams with a turnover unless Team A retains the ball. In (b), do not charge Brown with a turnover. In (c),
this will be ruled a double violation and the possession will be determined by the alternating-possession rule. Charge Adams with a turnover unless Team A retains the ball.

Example 4: Allen shoots a free throw and fails to hit the rim. (a) Allen’s failure to hit the rim is caused by Brown, who jumps into the lane and bats Allen’s throw away, or (b) Allen’s shot misses without any responsibility on the part of Team B, or (c) Allen’s shot misses and Allen steps into the lane too early, or (d) Allen’s shot misses and Adams steps into the lane too early, or (e) Allen’s shot misses but Brown
steps into the lane too early. RULING: In (a), (c), (d) and (e), do not charge Allen with a FTA. In (a), Brown will be charged with a Technical Foul and Team A will receive two free throws. In (b), the violation will be the only one penalized. Therefore, charge Allen with a FTA and credit Team B with a dead-ball rebound. In (c), charge Allen with a turnover unless Team A retains the ball. In (c) and (d), the violation for stepping into the lane caused the ball to become dead before the shot missed the rim. In (e), this will be ruled a double violation and the possession will be determined by the alternating-possession rule. Charge Allen
with a turnover unless Team A retains the ball.

Example 5: Allen is at the free-throw line to shoot a free throw. After Allen is given the ball, (a) Adams steps into the lane before Allen can shoot; (b) Brown steps into the lane before Allen can shoot; (c) Allen steps over the line before shooting; or (d) Allen fails to shoot within 10 seconds. RULING: In all cases, do not charge Allen with a FTA. In (a), charge Adams with a turnover unless Team A retains the ball. In (c) and (d), charge Allen with a turnover unless Team A retains the ball.

Example 6: Adams shoots a FTA and the shot hits the rim and bounces on it. Allen goes up and dunks the ball (a) while the ball still is on or above the rim or (b) after the ball has bounced to the side and it is obvious Adams’ shot will not be successful. RULING: In (a), since the free throw does not end until it is certain that the shot will not be successful, the interference was on Adams’ shot. Do not charge Adams with a FTA. Do not charge Allen with a FGA. Do not credit Allen with a rebound, but do charge Allen with
a turnover. In (b), since Adams’ shot obviously had missed, charge Adams with a FTA missed. Credit Allen with a rebound and a FGM, and charge a FGA.

---2010 Official Basketball Statisticians Manual
Email ND HS Scores to: ndhsscores@yahoo.com
THANKS!
User avatar
Run4Fun2009
NDPreps The King
 
Posts: 10363
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:06 pm

Re: Stats question

Postby Flip » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:21 am

Bases loaded, 2 outs. Batter hits the ball to right field safely and rounds 1st base. Right fielder throws it to 1st base where the first baseman tags out the batter before the runner from 3rd can touch home plate. Does the batter get a hit? or what is the ruling?
User avatar
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2875
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Re: Stats question

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:08 am

Flip wrote:Bases loaded, 2 outs. Batter hits the ball to right field safely and rounds 1st base. Right fielder throws it to 1st base where the first baseman tags out the batter before the runner from 3rd can touch home plate. Does the batter get a hit? or what is the ruling?


I believe it would be ruled a single since he/she reached first base and then an outfield assist (9-3) for the out.

I'm 75% sure on this...anyone else have any insight.
Email ND HS Scores to: ndhsscores@yahoo.com
THANKS!
User avatar
Run4Fun2009
NDPreps The King
 
Posts: 10363
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:06 pm

Re: Stats question

Postby scc » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:15 am

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
Flip wrote:Bases loaded, 2 outs. Batter hits the ball to right field safely and rounds 1st base. Right fielder throws it to 1st base where the first baseman tags out the batter before the runner from 3rd can touch home plate. Does the batter get a hit? or what is the ruling?


I believe it would be ruled a single since he/she reached first base and then an outfield assist (9-3) for the out.

I'm 75% sure on this...anyone else have any insight.

This scenario is nearly impossible. That team must have the worst coach in the world, since the runners should all be running with two outs.

I'd count it as a single because there was no force play or appeal on a lead runner.
User avatar
scc
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2409
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:52 am
Location: East Central North Dakota

Re: Stats question

Postby The Schwab » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:43 am

Batter would get a single, but that is a crazy scenario haha.
The Schwab
User avatar
The Schwab
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:38 am
Location: The Peace Garden State


Return to Open Topics - Sports and other things

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest