Questions for Viking's fans

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Questions for Viking's fans

Postby classB4ever » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:12 pm

Would like to get some opinions on the following:
1. Should AP have been playing in this game?
2. Ponder vs. Webb.
3. Were you cheering for the Vikings to win against Washington or for the loss and a higher draft pick?
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby ndlionsfan » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:19 pm

1. I don't have a problem with AP playing in the game. I'm sure he wanted to go and was cleared to go so it wasn't questioned. not cool that he got hurt but that could happen anytime.

2. Webb in a landslide. If Webb was named the starter after they benched McNabb I bet the Vikes would have 5-6 wins now. He adds a whole other threat to their offense and opens up Harvin and AP more. If the Vikes had another decent receiver they could have a pretty potent offense with Webb.

3. Glad to see the Vikes aren't tanking it to get a better draft pick. If you don't get the #1 pick for Luck, after that its pretty open anyway. The Vikes will get a top 5 pick and they better use it to fill some holes and be active in the free agent market or trade market to fill a lot of holes, too.
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:47 pm

1. No issue with AP playing
2. Better Dual-threat QB - Webb (however, I have nothing against Ponder.)
3. Glad the Vikings aren't getting the #1 pick...I don't think they need Luck. They need to fill much BIGGER issues with their OL or on defense with that pick.
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby bison football73 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:11 pm

1. AP playing was fine. no one knew he would blow out his knee.
2. i like Ponder more just because he is a natural QB (dont really care for the scrambling Qb's that much) i also think Webb's success the last couple weeks has been because the other teams have been have been game planning for Ponder.
3. i was honestly hoping they would lose. i just think that the Vikes need to take Kalil from USC and if they dont have that number 2 pick then the rams might end up taking him and i think they need OL bad. then they can play Kalil at LT and move Charlie Johnson over to RG and get rid of Herrera. but thats just how i see it.
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby Indy5 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:15 pm

I don't think Ponder is that good. He wasn't that good in college and still isn't. I think he's the most overrated rookie. That said, he's still better than Webb.
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:33 pm

1. Had a problem with AP playing for the exact reason of what happened. Personally was hoping the Vikes would shop AP in the off season for a "Herschel Walker" type of trade. He's in his 6th? year but would still be able to get some great players in return. Sometimes you have to let a great one go to build your team for the future.
2. Like the Vikes QBs right now. Personally think Ponder will be pretty good after one full off season. Think Webb can be a very good backup. Question Webb's throwing accuracy but his athleticism makes up for that. Also what happens when the opposing defense knows he's starting and what tendencies he may have. Either way, like their future with both of them. Hope they can keep them both happy.
3. Was hoping they would lose to get the highest draft pick possible. Doesn't mean they have to draft there. Could have traded down and stock piled picks.
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby Flip » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:19 pm

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:1. Had a problem with AP playing for the exact reason of what happened. Personally was hoping the Vikes would shop AP in the off season for a "Herschel Walker" type of trade. He's in his 6th? year but would still be able to get some great players in return. Sometimes you have to let a great one go to build your team for the future.

So the Vikes should sit Percy and JA this week?

There is no way a team is going to shop a player they just signed to a $100million contract. I'm not saying it is wrong to trade him, there is just zero chance of it happening.
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby winner-within » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:02 am

The Vikes are about 5-7 years away from even winning the NFC North....and most Payers and Coaches being discussed wont even be around.
They need The City's and the State to buy into them, rather than resenting them, and the cost of them...They need a New Facility so they are more attractive to Coaching Staffs, Higher Profile Players, they need Zig and the Wilfs to Develop their team like they did Real Estate.

Otherwise they will continue on like 80% 0f the League does, in Limbo!
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby Flip » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:12 am

winner-within wrote:The Vikes are about 5-7 years away from even winning the NFC North...

You're delusional. Every team in the NFL is 2 good off seasons away from winning their division.

This is the same team you thought would go 11-5.
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby defensewinsgames » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:17 am

Couldn't disagree more. No division except maybe the NFC West has ever been open enough for a team to win in 2 offseasons. The only one who is delusional around here is you. Winner is completely right on this. The Vikings, Rams, Colts, and Jaguars are a long way from winning their divisions.
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby winner-within » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:27 am

Flip wrote:
winner-within wrote:The Vikes are about 5-7 years away from even winning the NFC North...

You're delusional. Every team in the NFL is 2 good off seasons away from winning their division.

This is the same team you thought would go 11-5.


11-5 still wouldn't have won the Division....I was wrong about Mcnabb.... and we all know they should not be sitting with only 3 wins.
Also Flip, your theory about 2 years isn't Delusional, its Hilarious !!!!
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:56 am

defensewinsgames wrote:Couldn't disagree more. No division except maybe the NFC West has ever been open enough for a team to win in 2 offseasons. The only one who is delusional around here is you. Winner is completely right on this. The Vikings, Rams, Colts, and Jaguars are a long way from winning their divisions.


Dolphins 1-15 in 07, 11-5 and AFC East champs in 08
Jets 4-12 in 07, 9-7 in 08 and 09, 11-5 in 10....all 2nd in AFC East
Bengals 4-11-1 in 08, 10-6 and won division in 09
Browns 4-12 in 06, 10-6 and tied for division in 07
Cowboys terrible last year, have chance to win division this season
Chiefs 4-12 in 09, 10-6 and won division in 10
Falcons, 4-12 in 07, 13-3 and top seed in the NFC in 10
Saints 7-9 in 07, 13-3 won divison and SB in 09
Oakland terrible from 03-08, challenged for AFC West title last two seasons

This is leaving out the NFC West which would have 2-3 more situations like these. Same goes for teams going the opposite direction. Most teams are a big injury or free agent signing elsewhere from going from the top to the bottom in a year or two.

Rams tied for division lead last season after winning a total of 6 games the previous three seasons. If the Colts had Manning this season they would be in the playoff hunt. Vikes are just a couple seasons removed from being at the top of the NFC.

If teams draft right, sign a couple key players, have the right coach in place, and stay injury free things can turn around quickly in the NFL
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:12 am

Flip wrote:
Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:1. Had a problem with AP playing for the exact reason of what happened. Personally was hoping the Vikes would shop AP in the off season for a "Herschel Walker" type of trade. He's in his 6th? year but would still be able to get some great players in return. Sometimes you have to let a great one go to build your team for the future.

So the Vikes should sit Percy and JA this week?

There is no way a team is going to shop a player they just signed to a $100million contract. I'm not saying it is wrong to trade him, there is just zero chance of it happening.


If Percy and JA were coming off high ankle sprain injuries, absolutely would sit them. The thing is, AP, Jared and Percy are not in jeopardy of losing their jobs. What would be wrong in this situation (a lost season with something to gain for losing) to sit some of your studs? Especially dinged up ones. Allow some younger guys to get in there and see what they can do in "real time" and in front of a national audience to see how they handle it?
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby classB4ever » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:07 pm

Some really good points brought up.
1. About 50-50 on AP Starting.
2. Personally, with the Viking's O-line being so weak, I think Webb is the better fit right now. Let Ponder learn for a year or two and let the O-line develop and then look at it again down the road. Worked for Rodgers.
3. Think the Vikes would have been better off losing to get the highest draft pick possible. Let them decide what to do with it.
Thought winner and defensewinsgames were spot on with their analysis until reading ndlion's post. Not sure now.
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby Flip » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:45 pm

Seven years is such a long time in the NFL. You could go from the worst team in the NFL to SB champs back to the worst team in seven years.

The 1998 rams were 4-12 and won the SB the next year.
The 1998 Ravens were 6-10 and won the SB two years later.
The Lions won 2 games 2 years ago and they're in the playoffs this year.
The 2000 Pats were 5-11 and won the SB the next year.

Again, to possibly think you can't turn your franchise around in two years is delusional.
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby winner-within » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:11 pm

Flip wrote:Seven years is such a long time in the NFL. You could go from the worst team in the NFL to SB champs back to the worst team in seven years.

The 1998 rams were 4-12 and won the SB the next year.
The 1998 Ravens were 6-10 and won the SB two years later.
The Lions won 2 games 2 years ago and they're in the playoffs this year.
The 2000 Pats were 5-11 and won the SB the next year.

Again, to possibly think you can't turn your franchise around in two years is delusional.


"Your" Coulda woulda shoulda theory makes me Delusional???? you gotta pretty big mouth I know that! ......The Vikes made the NFC Championship twice in the last 14 years...7 plus 7 is 14....The Division Champions each season means nothing in the NFL....Nothing!!....in the next 5-7 years there will be 30% of NFL teams who may turn a corner the rest will sit and spin.

....the Bills lost a few Superbowl's ........and 15 years later are not even respectable....give me all the examples you want and i'll give you 10 defeating counters to each.
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:24 pm

winner-within wrote:
Flip wrote:Seven years is such a long time in the NFL. You could go from the worst team in the NFL to SB champs back to the worst team in seven years.

The 1998 rams were 4-12 and won the SB the next year.
The 1998 Ravens were 6-10 and won the SB two years later.
The Lions won 2 games 2 years ago and they're in the playoffs this year.
The 2000 Pats were 5-11 and won the SB the next year.

Again, to possibly think you can't turn your franchise around in two years is delusional.


The Vikes made the NFC Championship twice in the last 14 years


From 1997-98 season to 2011-12 season (14 seasons) the Vikings have made it to the NFC Championship Game 3 times (1998: loss to Atlanta 30-27 OT; 2000: loss to NY Giants 41-0; 2010: loss to New Orleans 31-28 OT).

IMO the Vikings are going through a rebuilding phase right now...they 'could' compete for a division title/playoff spots within the next 2-3 years with the right personnal, draft picks, etc.
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby Flip » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:28 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:IMO the Vikings are going through a rebuilding phase right now...they 'could' compete for a division title/playoff spots within the next 2-3 years with the right personnal, draft picks, etc.

This is my entire point. Every team could compete for a divisional title in 2 years. My examples and NDlionsfan prove it can be done. It doesn't mean it will happen or it is easy to do. Most teams that stink this year will stink next year too.
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:41 pm

winner-within wrote:The Vikes are about 5-7 years away from even winning the NFC North...


winner-within wrote: The Vikes made the NFC Championship twice in the last 14 years...7 plus 7 is 14....The Division Champions each season means nothing in the NFL....Nothing!


You started this conversation off by stating they were that far away from winning the division, now that a few people have proved that it is done quite a bit in only a year or two you go changing your argument to making the NFC championship.....typical
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby winner-within » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:44 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
winner-within wrote:
Flip wrote:Seven years is such a long time in the NFL. You could go from the worst team in the NFL to SB champs back to the worst team in seven years.

The 1998 rams were 4-12 and won the SB the next year.
The 1998 Ravens were 6-10 and won the SB two years later.
The Lions won 2 games 2 years ago and they're in the playoffs this year.
The 2000 Pats were 5-11 and won the SB the next year.

Again, to possibly think you can't turn your franchise around in two years is delusional.


The Vikes made the NFC Championship twice in the last 14 years


From 1997-98 season to 2011-12 season (14 seasons) the Vikings have made it to the NFC Championship Game 3 times (1998: loss to Atlanta 30-27 OT; 2000: loss to NY Giants 41-0; 2010: loss to New Orleans 31-28 OT).

IMO the Vikings are going through a rebuilding phase right now...they 'could' compete for a division title/playoff spots within the next 2-3 years with the right personnal, draft picks, etc.


Well I think with their current situation (new Stadium, crying tax payers, Not to mention AP ever being full force again etc. etc.) that I pointed out earlier.
I dont know if Dreaming is being Delusional....But you both are dreaming!
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby winner-within » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:50 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:
winner-within wrote:The Vikes are about 5-7 years away from even winning the NFC North...


winner-within wrote: The Vikes made the NFC Championship twice in the last 14 years...7 plus 7 is 14....The Division Champions each season means nothing in the NFL....Nothing!


You started this conversation off by stating they were that far away from winning the division, now that a few people have proved that it is done quite a bit in only a year or two you go changing your argument to making the NFC championship.....typical


They're farther away from the Playing to go to a Superbowl.....lets say for argument sakes...10 years give or take....they have never won a Superbowl in the Franchise history, but now they could play 2 seasons and Contend for one, or any team in the NFL could???? and I'm delusional. :roll: ....The only thing typical are the Sports Center Buffs on here that believe everything they hear..
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby classB4ever » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:57 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:

If teams draft right, sign a couple key players, have the right coach in place, and stay injury free things can turn around quickly in the NFL


I think the above is the key statement. Also, the most important question is what is the ultimate goal? Would guess the superbowl, correct? With that said, the teams with the quickest turn around and capable of sustaining successful seasons come from ones with a franchise quarterback. So, can Webb or Ponder be that QB? Or was Luck the one they let slip through their fingers?
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:03 pm

How were the 49ers last year? They could possibly be in the Super Bowl this season.
What about the Pack last year? Went from barely making the playoffs to winning it all.

Doesn't matter that the Vikes have never won the Super Bowl. their entire roster could change in the next couple years and be dominant if the right pieces fall in place. Or if they have draft busts and more injuries they could be losing for a few seasons.

People have such short memories. Last season everyone thought the Vikes would challenge for the Super Bowl again with Favre back but injuries hurt them and what did they finish? 4-12 or something like that. Now because some off season moves didn't work out they've had another bad season but people seem to think they've had 10 consecutive losing seasons or something.

Colts went from Super Bowl contenders this season to the laughing stock of the league just by losing Manning. Same thing could happen to the Pack or the Pats if their QBs went down. Panthers go from the worst team in the league last year to pretty respectable this season by just adding Newtown. Look out for them next season! Detroit didn't win a game a few years ago and has been the cellar dweller for most of the last decade, but they got the right pieces in place the last couple years and now they could have a good run if they avoid injuries over the next few years.

Things change so much in the NFL from year to year. Doesn't matter that the Vikes have never won a Super Bowl with free agency nowdays and players changing teams all the time.
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:08 pm

classB4ever wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:

If teams draft right, sign a couple key players, have the right coach in place, and stay injury free things can turn around quickly in the NFL


I think the above is the key statement. Also, the most important question is what is the ultimate goal? Would guess the superbowl, correct? With that said, the teams with the quickest turn around and capable of sustaining successful seasons come from ones with a franchise quarterback. So, can Webb or Ponder be that QB? Or was Luck the one they let slip through their fingers?


You're exactly right. Its seems like in todays league you need to have the stud QB to be successful. But some other teams are doing it without that piece....Texans and 49ers come to mind. In my opinion, Ponder will lead the Vikes nowhere but I would like to see Webb get a shot with a full offseason and season as the starter. Use their picks and free agent signings on other pieces....OL, WR, defense, and RB now that AP is questionable. I also believe that RGIII will be a great QB in the league similar to Newton, but since he is a lot like Webb I say their other holes are much more important to get filled.
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Re: Questions for Viking's fans

Postby classB4ever » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:31 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:
classB4ever wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:

If teams draft right, sign a couple key players, have the right coach in place, and stay injury free things can turn around quickly in the NFL


I think the above is the key statement. Also, the most important question is what is the ultimate goal? Would guess the superbowl, correct? With that said, the teams with the quickest turn around and capable of sustaining successful seasons come from ones with a franchise quarterback. So, can Webb or Ponder be that QB? Or was Luck the one they let slip through their fingers?


You're exactly right. Its seems like in todays league you need to have the stud QB to be successful. But some other teams are doing it without that piece....Texans and 49ers come to mind. In my opinion, Ponder will lead the Vikes nowhere but I would like to see Webb get a shot with a full offseason and season as the starter. Use their picks and free agent signings on other pieces....OL, WR, defense, and RB now that AP is questionable. I also believe that RGIII will be a great QB in the league similar to Newton, but since he is a lot like Webb I say their other holes are much more important to get filled.


It's a tough call. Without the right coach, I don't think the Texans, 49ers or Lions would be succeeding even though they have had very high draft picks for a number of years. Smith looks like a pretty good qb after only 1 year with Harbaugh. Stafford as well in Detroit. The Texans are loaded with talent, so even Yates hasn't screwed it up too bad.
I think drafting high and stock piling talent is the key to where even the most inept coaching staff can't screw it up too bad. Whoops, forgot about Cleveland. Whenever we Viking fans are down, we can always say "at least we are not the Browns".
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