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Re: Vikings

Postby Indy5 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:51 pm

Flip wrote:
Indy5 wrote:As others have said, it's not all about stats. The eye test is more important. You can't argue that Percy is an elite receiver. His only problem is he's hurt a lot. Out of that list, I only take him over Sanchez and Locker. I could also note that a couple of those guys are reaches as well, but I guess that happens when you need a franchise QB.

4th year in the league and he's missed 4 games.

My bad. Thought he missed at least that many last year with his migranes
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Re: Vikings

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:43 am

Indy5 wrote:
Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:
The Schwab wrote:I guess that's what happens when they reach for a qb in the first round that would have been available in the third or fourth round.


Here's some interesting information on comparing Ponder to "Franchise QBs".

Class of 2012 - Luck #1 (2/4), Griffin III #2 (3/4), Tannehill 8 (3/4)
Class of 2011 - Newton #1 (3/4), Locker #8 (4/4), Gabbert #10 (3/4)
Class of 2010 - Bradford #1 (2/4)
Class of 2009 - Stafford #1 (2/4), Sanchez #5 (4/4)
In 4 QB categories, Yds, Completions, TDs, and INTs: Ponder is ahead of the QBs above a minimum of 2 of 4.

Is he really doing that bad or do you simply not like the guy?

As others have said, it's not all about stats. The eye test is more important. You can't argue that Percy is an elite receiver. His only problem is he's hurt a lot. Out of that list, I only take him over Sanchez and Locker. I could also note that a couple of those guys are reaches as well, but I guess that happens when you need a franchise QB.


Well, stats are what we use to compare athletes. The rest is all up for debate because it is opinion. I find it humorous that stats really don't count if they don't back up one's opinion. My position all along has been that he wasn't that much of a reach at the point he was drafted and don't believe he would have been there in the second round. The stats are to show that he has comparable numbers to QBs who were all drafted higher. A number of you have stated you would take him over some of the QBs listed, so I believe I made my point.
I would like to know how many of the Ponder haters on here have ever played the QB position at any level. Have ever been behind a bad offensive line and have an idea what goes through your head as the pass rush is bearing down on you.
Indy5, you also stated that Newton wouldn't be a good QB in the NFL and shouldn't be drafted in the top 25. With all due respect, I will take my stats and you can use your eye test and other intangibles. IMO, give him a full year and then make a decision, that's only fair.
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Re: Vikings

Postby packers21 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:33 am

He has a ABOVE AVE offensive line! Also just bc you havent played QB doesn't mean you cant assess talent at the position. Ponder < Dilfer
It is a little harder to motivate kids I guess because they’ve been pampered so much. We’re in the trophy generation, give ‘em a trophy for 23rd place, make ‘em feel good. Make mom and dad feel good.” Tom Izzo, Michigan State Basketball
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Re: Vikings

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:40 am

packers21 wrote:He has a ABOVE AVE offensive line! Also just bc you havent played QB doesn't mean you cant assess talent at the position. Ponder < Dilfer

I will say their line is coming together. Having Kalil is huge. And you are right, it doesn't mean you can't assess talent but does give you a different perspective of what might be going through their head.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Flip » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:57 am

packers21 wrote:He has a ABOVE AVE offensive line! Also just bc you havent played QB doesn't mean you cant assess talent at the position. Ponder < Dilfer

They run block well, pass block poorly.
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Re: Vikings

Postby packers21 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:59 am

Flip wrote:
packers21 wrote:He has a ABOVE AVE offensive line! Also just bc you havent played QB doesn't mean you cant assess talent at the position. Ponder < Dilfer

They run block well, pass block poorly.


I somewhat agree with you. Ponder also hold on to the ball, they are much improved from Favres last year there when Loadhold and Mckinnie werent eve out of their stance and their defenders where past them. Put Roders or P. Manning behind that line and they would look much better.
It is a little harder to motivate kids I guess because they’ve been pampered so much. We’re in the trophy generation, give ‘em a trophy for 23rd place, make ‘em feel good. Make mom and dad feel good.” Tom Izzo, Michigan State Basketball
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Re: Vikings

Postby Flip » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:03 am

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
#5 run blocking
#29 pass blocking
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Re: Vikings

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:37 am

packers21 wrote:
Flip wrote:
packers21 wrote:He has a ABOVE AVE offensive line! Also just bc you havent played QB doesn't mean you cant assess talent at the position. Ponder < Dilfer

They run block well, pass block poorly.


I somewhat agree with you. Ponder also hold on to the ball, they are much improved from Favres last year there when Loadhold and Mckinnie werent eve out of their stance and their defenders where past them. Put Roders or P. Manning behind that line and they would look much better.


Well, do they run block well because AP makes them look good and pass block poorly because Ponder makes them look bad? That's what is tough to decide. What's unrealistic is saying "put Rodgers or P. Manning behind that line and they would look much better". Of course they would, but it isn't going to happen. The draft is why some teams have good players at one position and lack at others. Takes time to build and to bring together. How many years of experience do Manning & Rodgers have for their ability to read defenses and audible? P. Manning probably knows the base defense and where he is going with the ball 90% of the time before the ball is snapped. It takes time to get that experience. My question would be how many times does Ponder get to audible and does he have the capability to do so? Also, do the wide receivers have the understanding of when to break off routes when he audibles.
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Re: Vikings

Postby packers21 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:47 am

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:
packers21 wrote:
Flip wrote:
packers21 wrote:He has a ABOVE AVE offensive line! Also just bc you havent played QB doesn't mean you cant assess talent at the position. Ponder < Dilfer

They run block well, pass block poorly.


I somewhat agree with you. Ponder also hold on to the ball, they are much improved from Favres last year there when Loadhold and Mckinnie werent eve out of their stance and their defenders where past them. Put Roders or P. Manning behind that line and they would look much better.


Well, do they run block well because AP makes them look good and pass block poorly because Ponder makes them look bad? That's what is tough to decide. What's unrealistic is saying "put Rodgers or P. Manning behind that line and they would look much better". Of course they would, but it isn't going to happen. The draft is why some teams have good players at one position and lack at others. Takes time to build and to bring together. How many years of experience do Manning & Rodgers have for their ability to read defenses and audible? P. Manning probably knows the base defense and where he is going with the ball 90% of the time before the ball is snapped. It takes time to get that experience. My question would be how many times does Ponder get to audible and does he have the capability to do so? Also, do the wide receivers have the understanding of when to break off routes when he audibles.


I think it some of both in the first part of your response. Ok put Luck behind that line.
It is a little harder to motivate kids I guess because they’ve been pampered so much. We’re in the trophy generation, give ‘em a trophy for 23rd place, make ‘em feel good. Make mom and dad feel good.” Tom Izzo, Michigan State Basketball
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Re: Vikings

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:53 am

Still unrealistic because they wouldn't have Kalil then.
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Re: Vikings

Postby winner-within » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:17 pm

Ponder is the QB........the alternative is way worse and we just cant trade for Payton Manning or Andrew Luck.

Vikes beat the Bears to go 7-4, then pull out the dice and start shooting craps

I say 10-6
is their season
Last edited by winner-within on Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vikings

Postby The Schwab » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:25 pm

A career rating of 78 for ponder, Webb's is 67, not that far off, even tho neither one is a good rating.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Flip » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:29 pm

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:Still unrealistic because they wouldn't have Kalil then.

I think he was suggesting Luck because he has about the same amount of experience as Ponder.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:56 pm

The Schwab wrote:A career rating of 78 for ponder, Webb's is 67, not that far off, even tho neither one is a good rating.


Interesting STATISTIC. haha Well, Drew Brees was drafted in 2001? In 2002 had a 76.9, 2003 had a 67.5, 2004 had a 76.9 and in 2005 had a 89.2. Believe he was in the pro bowl in '04 or '05 and then of course 5 or 6 times since then. I would certainly take him and picked him because Ponder kind of reminds me of him in his early years.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Indy5 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:50 pm

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:Well, stats are what we use to compare athletes. The rest is all up for debate because it is opinion. I find it humorous that stats really don't count if they don't back up one's opinion. My position all along has been that he wasn't that much of a reach at the point he was drafted and don't believe he would have been there in the second round. The stats are to show that he has comparable numbers to QBs who were all drafted higher. A number of you have stated you would take him over some of the QBs listed, so I believe I made my point.
I would like to know how many of the Ponder haters on here have ever played the QB position at any level. Have ever been behind a bad offensive line and have an idea what goes through your head as the pass rush is bearing down on you.
Indy5, you also stated that Newton wouldn't be a good QB in the NFL and shouldn't be drafted in the top 25. With all due respect, I will take my stats and you can use your eye test and other intangibles. IMO, give him a full year and then make a decision, that's only fair.

I'll admit Newton was better than I thought he would be. He built a giant hype for himself by having his first 2 career games go for over 300. I believe he didn't throw for over 300 the rest of that season and may not have yet again. He turns the ball over a lot. Now that he's evened out, I'd say his talent would consider a mid 1st round pick worthy. Obviously this is all in hindsight but he still isn't playing like a number 1 pick, just better than I thought he would. But you know, like I said, picks like that happen when you're desperate for a QB.
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Re: Vikings

Postby winner-within » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:22 pm

All I can say is I was at Solider field last year when they jerked McNabb and threw in Ponder....so If he ends up in the HOF I get to say "I saw his debut".......... 8)

Oh and they owe Da Bears & me one for that game.........I had to sit by some big fat Bears fan who wouldn't shut up (i know you guys think I deserve it)..........anyways GO PURPLE!!!.... :twisted:
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Re: Vikings

Postby Flip » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:47 pm

winner-within wrote:All I can say is I was at Solider field last year when they jerked McNabb and threw in Ponder....so If he ends up in the HOF I get to say "I saw his debut".......... 8)

Oh and they owe Da Bears & me one for that game.........I had to sit by some big fat Bears fan who wouldn't shut up (i know you guys think I deserve it)..........anyways GO PURPLE!!!.... :twisted:

lol
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Re: Vikings

Postby winner-within » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:17 pm

winner-within wrote:Ponder is the QB........the alternative is way worse and we just cant trade for Payton Manning or Andrew Luck.

Vikes beat the Bears to go 7-4, then pull out the dice and start shooting craps

I say 10-6 is their season




Getting closer!!!!!!!!!!! :D !!!!!!!!!!!GO VIKES
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Re: Vikings

Postby Flip » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:09 pm

I'm not even that excited about the making the playoffs. I'm more excited to know we're 4-6 years away from winning the division and not 5-7.
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Re: Vikings

Postby winner-within » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:46 pm

Harvins gone???
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Re: Vikings

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:35 pm

Yep, and Greg Jennings is visiting today.
Have a question for all of you. What do you think of the Vikes taking a chance on Darrius Heyward-Bey? Realize he didn't set world on fire in Oakland but to be honest, Oakland hasn't developed much talent in the past few years. Looked at some of his numbers prior to the 2009 draft, 4.25 forty with a 38.5" vertical jump. Didn't realize he was that fast.
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Re: Vikings

Postby The Schwab » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:53 pm

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:Yep, and Greg Jennings is visiting today.
Have a question for all of you. What do you think of the Vikes taking a chance on Darrius Heyward-Bey? Realize he didn't set world on fire in Oakland but to be honest, Oakland hasn't developed much talent in the past few years. Looked at some of his numbers prior to the 2009 draft, 4.25 forty with a 38.5" vertical jump. Didn't realize he was that fast.


He kind of reminds me of Troy Williamson, which scares me
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Re: Vikings

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:37 pm

That's funny. Is he really that bad? 6'-2" and 210 lbs with that speed and jumping ability. Are his hands really as bad as Williamson's? I was thinking if they could sign Jennings and then bring in a project like him, might shore up a week receiving corp in a hurry.
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Re: Vikings

Postby The Schwab » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:09 pm

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:That's funny. Is he really that bad? 6'-2" and 210 lbs with that speed and jumping ability. Are his hands really as bad as Williamson's? I was thinking if they could sign Jennings and then bring in a project like him, might shore up a week receiving corp in a hurry.


He could turn into a great player, I was just stating that he reminds me of Williamson haha.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:03 pm

Matt Cassel signs with the Vikes.
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