KISS football plan

[Bisonguy06]

KISS = Keep It Simple, Stupid

If you want to make the football plan better, make it simpler.
Here's the plan. This could be made to fit into one tweet/280 characters.

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AAA = Grades 7-10 male enrollment 450+
AA = Grades 7-10 male enrollment 150-449
A = Grades 7-10 male enrollment 75-149
9 man = Grades 7-10 male enrollment under 75

No enrollment multipliers, no QRF.
Co-op as needed.
You can opt up; you cannot opt down; you can opt out and plan an independent schedule.

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... rue&lsrp=1

Based on preliminary 2022 data, this plan would result in the following:

AAA (450+) = 14 teams, Balanced with 7 in the east and 7 in the west
Minot the largest; Fargo South the smallest (532)

AA (150-449) = 10 teams, one statewide division. Possible opt-up from Shanley.
Jamestown the largest (413); Central Cass the smallest (158). Horace lands here at 169 and growing rapidly

A (75-149) = 38 teams, Kindred being the largest, with potential to grow into AA.

9 man (under 75) = 42 teams; 6 currently play 6 man

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The KISS plan is absolutely better than what we currently have in place.

Now, tell me where I have gone wrong.

[classB4ever]

KISS = Keep It Simple, Stupid

If you want to make the football plan better, make it simpler.
Here's the plan. This could be made to fit into one tweet/280 characters.

----

AAA = Grades 7-10 male enrollment 450+
AA = Grades 7-10 male enrollment 150-449
A = Grades 7-10 male enrollment 75-149
9 man = Grades 7-10 male enrollment under 75

No enrollment multipliers, no QRF.
Co-op as needed.
You can opt up; you cannot opt down; you can opt out and plan an independent schedule.

---

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... rue&lsrp=1

Based on preliminary 2022 data, this plan would result in the following:

AAA (450+) = 14 teams, Balanced with 7 in the east and 7 in the west
Minot the largest; Fargo South the smallest (532)

AA (150-449) = 10 teams, one statewide division. Possible opt-up from Shanley.
Jamestown the largest (413); Central Cass the smallest (158). Horace lands here at 169 and growing rapidly

A (75-149) = 38 teams, Kindred being the largest, with potential to grow into AA.

9 man (under 75) = 42 teams; 6 currently play 6 man

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The KISS plan is absolutely better than what we currently have in place.

Now, tell me where I have gone wrong.

Nailed it. Those are the correct cutoffs for our current landscape.

[Bisonguy06]

It’s good because it’s fair.

If the “landscape” changes, the plan stays and the schools shift to where they belong.

If your school is double the size of my school, with very few exceptions, we’ll find ourselves in different classes.

Set the numbers. Do it now, do it right, and save countless hours down the road.

[maddog1971]

it is only fair if your team is winning..... otherwise something is wrong with the system

[classB4ever]

Although it would be great to keep it as simple as possible, we must also acknowledge that athletes in small school/town ND are not the same as athletes in a big school and/or town. Although there can be 1 or 2 very good athletes, there are not enough average or above to fill out rosters. Just being honest. Liken it to Division 1 Football. 85 scholarships in FBS to 63 scholarships in FCS. Even if a smaller college (FCS team) were allotted the same amount of scholarships, they will still not attract the same kind of athlete as Alabama or Auburn will. Reality.

So, there is a need to create parity within subdivisions of ND athletics. Creating “subdivisions/classes” in ND athletics should take into account certain criteria. Then, using a ratio to make the cutoffs for these divisions is the final step. I think your KISS plan is spot on where cutoffs should be in current landscape. Should there be some other criteria inside each class? Probably.

With that ramble being done, I think your KISS plan is a great start and without a doubt superior to existing plan. As always, my opinion is strictly based on increasing participation and keeping all athletics alive and well in ND. 2 cents.

[Bisonguy06]

It sounds like you’re in favor of some sort of rural/suburban/urban multiplier.

If Johnny moves from out of state to Harvey, he’s valued at 0.8 for male enrollment.
If Johnny moves to Kindred, he’s valued at 1.0.
If Johnny moves to Minot, he’s valued at 1.2.

Same kid. 6’0, 190 RB/LB. Three different enrollment values, depending on where he lands.

Sorry, I just don’t like it, and prefer saying that “a boy is a boy” for football classification.

[woodchuck10]

You're both using inequality as an argument for equality. lol

My favorite football team in the state is Shanley. One of the smaller Class A's and they choose to play up in the largest division. Yeah they have an advantage with no district boundaries but so what. They're playing schools with some pretty big enrollments.

Here's my "fix"

Class B 6man
Class B 9man
Class B 11man

Class A/AA regions like they are now but they play in one playoff with 12 teams. Top 2 in each region (8 teams) with 4 wild cards using QRF.

We all know the difference between a 6man & 9man school and a 9man & 11man school. The schools should know the difference too. Bottineau knows they are an 11man school. Linton knows they are a 9man school. Strasburg should be playing 6man etc.

[classB4ever]

It sounds like you’re in favor of some sort of rural/suburban/urban multiplier.

Not at all. Was trying to be honest about our current landscape. UND and NDSU cannot compete against Auburn and Alabama, with same amount of scholarships or not. Same goes for small town vs. large town. Especially in football where it takes numbers to fill out larger rosters. Stating the obvious and don't have any answers.

You're both using inequality as an argument for equality. lol

Not exactly sure what this means. If you're stating larger rosters don't equate to better programs, then guess I'll have to disagree. My only input would be to attempt to create the best parity in whatever classifications are brought forth. This will increase participation and that should be the goal. Of course, easier said than done.

[woodchuck10]

You're both using inequality as an argument for equality. lol

Not exactly sure what this means. If you're stating larger rosters don't equate to better programs, then guess I'll have to disagree. My only input would be to attempt to create the best parity in whatever classifications are brought forth. This will increase participation and that should be the goal. Of course, easier said than done.

Kind of saying you're both right. Some schools/teams benefit because of location; Thompson, Kindred, CC. Obviously having 25-35 kids on a 9B team or 35-45 on an 11B team will equate to having success

He thought you wanted to have a multiplier 0.8, 1.0, 1.2 for students and he was saying a boy should be counted as 1 boy no mater what. If you did it that way then Dunseith is in 11B and they fold their program after 1 season. Dunseith is correctly in 9B, Bottineau is incorrectly in 9B. They both have similar enrollments.

[Bisonguy06]

Here’s why I say “a boy is a boy” for the purposes of enrollment.

I could think of about 25 reasons why “Johnny“ might have a particular hardship.

Currently we adjust for one of them, socioeconomic status, and none of the others.

I think it’s impossible to adjust for all the hardships.

I think we are better off telling Johnny that we can coach him up to be on par with any of his peers from anywhere in the state, even if there are some realities that might be hard to overcome.

[Bisonguy06]

Dunseith could play an independent schedule. They wouldn’t have to fold. But I do acknowledge that this plan is less favorable to them.

[Bisonguy06]

The socioeconomic status adjustment was introduced, first and foremost, to keep Turtle Mountain Belcourt out of AAA.

They remain out of AAA in this plan, no adjustments needed.

The addition of Davies/Sheyenne/Legacy in the past decade has helped the equation.

[leroybla]

"My favorite football team in the state is Shanley. One of the smaller Class A's and they choose to play up in the largest division. Yeah they have an advantage with no district boundaries but so what. They're playing schools with some pretty big enrollments."

Let's not forget that Shanley formerly was AAA and played the big boys. When they couldn't win consistently, they dropped down to AA (currently 11A), and consistently played in state championship games (2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018). Don't doubt for a minute that they will drop down again if the winning at the AA level doesn't work out.

[Bisonguy06]

This really isn’t the whole truth or fair to the school.

The dominance of Fargo Shanley and Bismarck Saint Mary’s in AA football began in a year where they capped the number of AAA teams at 12 and did not allow any more opting up.

Again I think part of the motivation there was to make sure turtle mountain did not end up in AAA.

They came along a couple years later and replaced cap with the multiplier.

[leroybla]

It's not hard to spot a pattern.

2009 Shanley 31, Devils Lake 30 (OT)
2010 Shanley 24, Devils Lake 21
2011 Grafton 22, Shanley 6
2012 Shanley 14, Grafton 8
2013 Bismarck St. Mary’s 24, Wahpeton 22
2014 Bismarck St. Mary’s 21, Shanley 7
2015 Beulah 33, Shanley 18
2016 Bismarck St. Mary’s 47, Kindred 6
2017 Bismarck St. Mary’s 31, Shanley 12
2018 Shanley 28 - Bismarck St. Mary's 21
2019 Hillsboro/Central Valley 35, Beulah 12
2020 Bismarck St. Mary's 17, Beulah 7

[Bisonguy06]

Yeah, and if you’re following, it was 2008 when Shanley and St. Mary’s were told that they could no longer opt up.

I think that was bad policy, and I think you’d agree. Let’s just paint the whole picture here.

[Sleepy]

I see the latest discussion is almost a month old, but this is a good post and discussion. One question - where is Heimer?

[Bisonguy06]

It’s a great plan and he’s jealous that he didn’t come up with it himself